Artifact Traits and Relics

[Shakou]

I'm waiting for anyone to show me proof as in logs that show me that there is any significant advantage at all whatsoever to ever taking a specific relic that offers a trait you like more, over a relic that has more i lvls. Because as far as I can tell there isn't a single minor trait that say increase dmg of x ability that provides much more than a 1% dps increase. So why would you ever downgrade?

Is it what I suspect and idiots are just following sims verbatim?

[Deleted]

I'm waiting for anyone to show me proof as in logs that show me that there is any significant advantage at all whatsoever to ever taking a specific relic that offers a trait you like more, over a relic that has more i lvls. Because as far as I can tell there isn't a single minor trait that say increase dmg of x ability that provides much more than a 1% dps increase. So why would you ever downgrade?

Is it what I suspect and idiots are just following sims verbatim?

Same with legendaries. None of them matter for 99% of the raiders (they make difference for those magical unicorns who participate in the race for first).
Yet everyone is pretending they're absolutely vital for their progression.

[Deleted]

I'm waiting for anyone to show me proof as in logs that show me that there is any significant advantage at all whatsoever to ever taking a specific relic that offers a trait you like more, over a relic that has more i lvls. Because as far as I can tell there isn't a single minor trait that say increase dmg of x ability that provides much more than a 1% dps increase. So why would you ever downgrade?

Is it what I suspect and idiots are just following sims verbatim?

Sims are more proof than your own personal reasonings. For a LOT of classes, melee in particular, obviously iLevel is the king - that isn't the case for everybody.

[Rioo]

I'm waiting for anyone to show me proof as in logs that show me that there is any significant advantage at all whatsoever to ever taking a specific relic that offers a trait you like more, over a relic that has more i lvls. Because as far as I can tell there isn't a single minor trait that say increase dmg of x ability that provides much more than a 1% dps increase. So why would you ever downgrade?

Is it what I suspect and idiots are just following sims verbatim?

Thrash relic for guardian provides another 10% thrash damage on top of the 30% you can spend AP to get. Cba with digging in logs but simple math gives us that if thrash needs to do more than 7.7% of your total damage without any relic for the relic you give you more than 1% damage increase. Even on single target this is always the case.

[Nikkaszal]

I'm waiting for anyone to show me proof as in logs that show me that there is any significant advantage at all whatsoever to ever taking a specific relic that offers a trait you like more, over a relic that has more i lvls. Because as far as I can tell there isn't a single minor trait that say increase dmg of x ability that provides much more than a 1% dps increase. So why would you ever downgrade?

Is it what I suspect and idiots are just following sims verbatim?

The Master Assassin trait for rogues knocks the cooldown of Vendetta from 2min to 1.5min. Getting all three relics with Master Assassin further reduce to 1min.

So Vendetta's 30% damage boost goes from:

20sec duration @ 90sec CD = 22% uptime
20sec duration @ 60sec CD = 33% uptime

Having all three Master Assassin relics will allow you to use Vendetta six times over a 5:30 fight, as opposed to having no Master Assassin relics allowing you to use Vendetta only four times in the same time period.

[Deleted]

I like how you think logs are proof and sims aren't. Goes to show you have 0 knowledge of what sims are or how they work.

Anyway as the above poster said, and to satisfy your idiotic whim, where's the top rogue parse on ursoc:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

He's using 850, 870, 875 vendetta relics (I'm quite sure he has access to 880 rupture ones).

I'm also quite sure there's similar relics for other classes that are better even when lower ilvl.

[deadman1]

It's very different on a spec to spec and class to class basis, you'd have to be insane to think that 2 item level is worth losing 7% Rip damage for instance for Feral Druids.

Sims are BAD at calculating DPS accurately in a specific scenario.

Sims are VERY GOOD at comparing gear/trinkets/relics.

You lack the basic understanding of what sims are useful for and insult people from a place of ignorance.

- - - Updated - - -

Same with legendaries. None of them matter for 99% of the raiders (they make difference for those magical unicorns who participate in the race for first).
Yet everyone is pretending they're absolutely vital for their progression.

They may not be crucial, but they definitely increase throughput. People enjoy min/maxing.

For me I don't understand why you'd want to perform less optimally than you can.

[Deleted]

They may not be crucial, but they definitely increase throughput. People enjoy min/maxing.

For me I don't understand why you'd want to perform less optimally than you can.

Exactly this - I don't understand why people cry about legendaries, but are not willing to do PTR raid testing research and split runs.
Being prepared - knowing the fights from PTR, writing your strats from ground up, doing your own WeakAuras/Addons as needed and running split runs/grinding m+ helps *way more* than those tiny percentage gains from legendaries or artifact traits.

I don't understand why anyone would want to perform less optimally as a group. Most wipes are about mechanics after all, not some small percentage addition to DPS.

It seems to me people are always complaining about the easy stuff (like talents, trinkets or legendaries) but they don't seem to be willing do the things that actually improve their raid performance.

[Shakou]

Okay guys 2 of you have provided some good examples of a handful of specs where this might be true (certainly despite those advantage's it's extremely difficult at best to quantify how much more of a dps increase those traits could possibly be over i lvls, especially for any physical dps classes) that a certain relics are a lot better, but I was pretty specific in my OP. The truth for most classes/specs is that most relics merely give a minor trait that increases dmg of one ability by a small %, which is never more than a tiny fraction of dps so small you won't ever feel any major differences.

Example: Bloodied Bear Fang for my hunter is a 10 sec decrease to my trushot cd, for a shadow priest it's only a 6% dmg increase to shadow word pain, which is as a matter of fact so low you will barely notice any difference at all when switching to that from another blood relic of the same (and especially not better) i lvl.

That said, the fact that such disparity does exist for some classes tells you how imbalanced this system is.