Demon Skin moved means...

[BannedForViews]

That we can no longer have it and dark pact. Well Done Blizzard. Instead of us being able to pick a tanky spec, we now are forced to choose a "mobility" talent without any solution to the massive damage affliction takes.

[Requiem94]

Meanwhile the whole 45 tier remains uninspiring with demon circle being the only real option for raid content. Cool, I love not having real choice...not like we have it in the first place atm.

[Deleted]

LOL

Is this the "we want warlocks to be tanky" and "if it's not working we want to build on it's strengths"

They nerfed healthstones too in Sweet Souls, mind you that was already garbage since health pots are better anyway

[Netherspark]

It's honestly better this way (in theory anyway).

It allows Demonic Circle to become a viable choice. And you now must choose between passive shield or burst shield, and you do still have basic Soul Leech even if you take Dark Pact.

[Deleted]

Still don;t see how it's "We'd rather double down on strengths"

They said "warlocks are immobile because they are tanky". We're still immobile and they nerfed our tankiness

-chuckles despairingly-

[Esinar]

its only the first pass remember. i was actually expecting this change when demon skin was first introduced in beta but it never happened. its an expected change imo.

what i'd like to see now is burning rush moved to where mortal coil is, mortal coil moved to the pvp tree, dark bargain implemented where burning rush was but work as a full immunity and shadowfury to be made instant again

then mana tap to be replaced with some passive mana talent such as the old chaotic energies for those who hate life tap and for healthstones to heal as much as potions

[BannedForViews]

its only the first pass remember. i was actually expecting this change when demon skin was first introduced in beta but it never happened. its an expected change imo.

what i'd like to see now is burning rush moved to where mortal coil is, mortal coil moved to the pvp tree, dark bargain implemented where burning rush was but work as a full immunity and shadowfury to be made instant again

then mana tap to be replaced with some passive mana talent such as the old chaotic energies for those who hate life tap and for healthstones to heal as much as potions

How about they give back baseline one or two of the things that we all had at the exact same time, when there was no issue? The only way they can balance this now (at least for pvp) is with massive stat buffs I doubt will ever get approved.

[varren]

Didn't think it was possible to make Destro talents any worse, but...

[Mehrunes]

Level 45 still has one viable option for Aff. No Burning Rush for questing and no Dark Pact for PvP because we're apparently too tanky and it's... not our class fantasy? Gotta manage that tankiness I suppose. Because Soul Leech alone is already oh, so super amazing. It only needs a talent to not be useless and melee and any significant boss mechanic shred through it even with said talent anyway.

[Violetti]

Guys you can see it positive and think of them giving us back Demonic Circle as baseline, since rest of the row is trash for raiding ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Purge on felhound is much more interesting, since it implies we're getting a baseline interrupt.

[PowerOfTwo]

Purge on felhound is much more interesting, since it implies we're getting a baseline interrupt.

Not that i understand WHY this implies we're getting a baseline interupt but... hell sure, give! So anoying when GoSac is the best overall talent atm but we lost the Demon ability from it, so we now have no baseline interupt or stun.... who the hell does that?! and even if GoSac wasn't the ideal talent , Demo still doesn't have an interupt, they at least get a (double) stun, and Aff would have (double) interupt but what does destro have ... despell?! yey!, granted with most pug healers it isn't horrible but could we assume healers are doing their job and we don't need the extra despell(s)?

2 weeks into the xpac and god knows how many months into launch and i'm still amazed how many baseline things got put into talents... its like stealing your car , repainting it and then selling it back to you with a smirk...

[Violetti]

Not that i understand WHY this implies we're getting a baseline interupt but... hell sure, give!

Because he first thing they'd need to change, when giving us a baseline interrupt would be replacing the felhunter one.

[FertsBlert]

Not that i understand WHY this implies we're getting a baseline interupt but... hell sure, give! So anoying when GoSac is the best overall talent atm but we lost the Demon ability from it, so we now have no baseline interupt or stun.... who the hell does that?! and even if GoSac wasn't the ideal talent , Demo still doesn't have an interupt, they at least get a (double) stun, and Aff would have (double) interupt but what does destro have ... despell?! yey!, granted with most pug healers it isn't horrible but could we assume healers are doing their job and we don't need the extra despell(s)?

2 weeks into the xpac and god knows how many months into launch and i'm still amazed how many baseline things got put into talents... its like stealing your car , repainting it and then selling it back to you with a smirk...

No it's worse than that, you still had your car but the seats were removed, the suspension was replaced with solid struts, the tires were replaced with completely bald ones, the engine was deliberately tuned to run poorly and then being offered the old parts you had but only 1 or at most 2 to fix these problems.

[Mehrunes]

Because he first thing they'd need to change, when giving us a baseline interrupt would be replacing the felhunter one.

Or they just give Felhunter its old ability back because they removed it for no reason and now it has less abilities than any of our other pets and has an empty space on its actionbar.

[takracobedah]

I see what they are trying to do. They want to give the option of choosing demonic circle AND burning rush to improve mobility (Burning rush is mobility in that you can get from A to point B faster hence less downtime). The problem is that this puts both Demon skin and Dark Pact on the same line which are what make the tankiness of the class. They are flipping the problem around by definitely reducing tankiness and making a poor substitute for real mobility. I think swapping demonic circle and mortal coil would make more sense. That way 45 would give Tank or Mobility or Utility and line 75 would give Garbage or Mobility or Tank. This ensures that you can double up in either tankiness or mobility or any combination of each that you prefer.

[Xandy]

I guess when they said "doubling down" they were referring to lazy talent design.

[Spunt]

I'd say wait and see, but after alpha and beta, there is no reason to believe that anymore.

[Count Zero]

Well. A lot of us were bitching that being "tanky" doesn't help in raiding. This sacrifices some of our tankiness for extra mobility.

[Deleted]

Looks like we need DK with PoF in raid and drop off Dalaran.
no summoning in myths (mb in raids too?), no surv, aoe|st switch

during pre-patch i was seriously afraid of switching to SP, but that was only spec switch. now i afraid it again.

[wholol]

These changes look so grim for pvp :/

Already feels like getting destroyed vs melee, competent players will steamroll through our defensives like butter currently on live, imagine after 7.1 where we have to choose between demon skin and dark pact.

They should just give demon skin baseline already.