Demon Skin moved means...

[RedNight at MMOC]

Warlocks are not meant to tank. Blizzard made this very clear when talking about Dark Apotheosis's removal.

[Lucidious]

Pvp just keeps taking the nerfs.

[sugarfree]

Nerfs here and nerfs there. As if the class is ruling PvP right now. They say something and act on the opposite.

Yes it makes sense to move that talent, but the whole class is suffering from their 'oh warlocks are suppose to tank' mentality and yet here we are. It looks grim. They can just nerf the self-healing for Aff and be done with it.

Burning Rush still remains useless. And Demonic Circle, wherever it will be placed, it will always be out of place. That's your clue Blizz, just give it baseline. Shocking how fast they backed out of 'locks are supposed to be tanks' mantra in just one fell swoop.

[Requimortem]

The nerf to Demonic Empowerment and this change now means less survivability for warlocks. I have never known a more incompetent group of developers ever.

[Elise the Seeker]

LMAO its like they really hate xelnath, so they want us all to pay.

[Deleted]

I don't understand this. Blizzard have stated that Warlocks are tanky but not mobile, basically the opposite of Mages. Yet they nerf Tankiness. Whoever OK'd that talent swap to Demonskin/Circle needs fired, that's a complete joke. We'll be taking the same damage as Mages but no Iceblock or Blink. In PvP Demon Skin is mandatory, as is Dark Pact - They also nerfed our Healthstone trait further making us more vulnerable.

Siphon Life should be a baseline ability and Circle put in it's place - Or give us back Circle as baseline, that was one of the worst changes to Locks in Legion.

Seriously never been so disappointed for my class in an expansion.
There is threads upon threads of Warlocks stating their issues, even Blue stickied ones, and yet they continue to mess us up? Our strength was out-lasting the opponent since Dots take forever to kill someone, take away the ability to outlast and what can we even do? Balance and SP already do more spread pressure than us (which was our niche)

What can we do if we are singled out by mele in arena now?

[Deleted]

I'm refusing to blow the veins in my forehead before I see the actual class tuning. But having Demonic Circle forced by default (since it's the only viable raid talent really) and instead losing Soul Leech (losing Dark Pact? No way) - is that supposed to solve our mobility issues? I mean, the only reason we're this tanky is that we can stand in shit on occation, shit that others have to move from. What's the point of tankiness otherwise?

Class tuning *holding breath*

[Gangresnake]

I'm waiting on the full package before making up my mind

I welcome any kind of change right now, especially for affliction. If that mean I have to frontload the payment with demonskin then so be it.

[Dastey]

I just wanted to come in here to thank all of you who were complaining endlessly at Blizzard.
Now the thing I actually enjoy most about my warlock atm. is no longer gonna be possible.

Dark pact and demon skin was seriously one of the best thing that has happened to warlocks in a long time. And now because of excessive whining and devs who have no clue what they are doing this is a reality.

I guess it's my turn to go onto the official forums and cry my heart out, as I may aswell reroll my mage now and take the 22 points of artifact hit that it will be

[Dnusha]

we want warlocks to be tanky

"swaps demon skin with demonic circle" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

upd. i actually think there are no warlocks in wow dev team at all. it's like they have no idea waht they are doing. (legion warlock revamp kinda shows)

[Deleted]

Well. A lot of us were bitching that being "tanky" doesn't help in raiding. This sacrifices some of our tankiness for extra mobility.

When people say "mobility" they mean not being fucked over by fights that constantly require you to move which ruins anything stuck with long, hard-casts.

Therefore, Demonic Circle is not "mobility", it is simply a shitty Blink. Not even that, since you're teleporting to a fixed point. Yeah, let's teleport from one fire to another, with even less survivability

Real mobility means the ability to do something significant whilst moving. And I don;t mean Lifetap.

[Annedrooo]

Wow I can't believe they listened to my feedback, it felt so wrong having to choose between burning rush and circle.

[Lethl]

I don't understand this. Blizzard have stated that Warlocks are tanky but not mobile, basically the opposite of Mages. Yet they nerf Tankiness. Whoever OK'd that talent swap to Demonskin/Circle needs fired, that's a complete joke. We'll be taking the same damage as Mages but no Iceblock or Blink.

Well, fire mage atleast takes less damage against melee. As they have Molten Skin in their artifact tree, reducing physical damage taken by 9%.

[Deleted]

I think that its one of these changes that you ll have to get used to it, not a nerf exactly. Instead of more shield you ll have to play with an escape or a cc. Not that bad tbh.

Though to make Circle a really nice/helpfull talent it should be able to use while casting (not interrupting the cast ofc) and maybe take it off the global cd.

As far as pvp is concerned Demonology is gonna lose demon skin + a nerf to dark pact (from dem empowerment nerf) , but demo in pvp will be a cc/utility monster. Actually i dont remember any caster having so much utility in pvp like ever.

[Onizuka]

From a decision pov this move stands legit, but from the overall Warlock pov changes nothing.
Tbh I wouldn't let Dark Pact for no reason, since it's an on demand shield that saves lives in PvE and PvP situations.
Soul Leech isn't in such a trash state atm (of course it depends on your dmg output).
What I would really like to see is a base line Interrupt since Devour Magic is returning again to our Fell hunter (stupidity made the devs to remove it because it was too OP? What the actual fuck????).

I'm also eager to see that change in Compounding Horror.
Did they actually try to turn it from a boost in UAs overall dmg to an one off "bursty" thing?

As a mainly PvP player with interest in PvE also, I'm not against this change but I'm not also happy with it either...
More changes need to be made.

[Deleted]

Well, voice your concerns in a civilized matter in the stickied warlock feedback thread, on the actual forums.

I'm trying to tell myself that they have some other nice changes coming that will counteract these. They do have a weird way of nerfing things before they buff something else. But there's also been plenty of occations where I waited for something that never came.

If you take Soul Leech and Dark Pact as isolated talents, they are stupid strong. They make us able to at least semi-cheese certain mechanics, and do so every minute. In an isolated scenario they do look a bit too strong. But then slap one of the most immobile iterations of a caster that ever existed on top of it, where you -have- to use it to soak to stay competitive.... they don't look that strong anymore.

I truly don't think this change would be all that bad if we weren't so reliant at patchwerk-style tunneling.

One more thing though, with this change - Soul Leech feels like it could just be removed from the talent tree. When will you pick that ahead of Dark Pact? Or Demonic Rush for general play like questing etc.

[Bryntrollian]

Burning Rush still remains useless. And Demonic Circle, wherever it will be placed, it will always be out of place. That's your clue Blizz, just give it baseline. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ruction-Design

I think that statement was a mistake in the first place, I doubt they ever meant for it to be a real thing.

[Deleted]

How about they give back baseline one or two of the things that we all had at the exact same time, when there was no issue? The only way they can balance this now (at least for pvp) is with massive stat buffs I doubt will ever get approved.

When exactly did we have no issue ?
As long as I remember, people have been complaining about spec balance, builts, dev choices, ...

And please don't tell me "MoP was fine". MoP warlocks were an aberration and should never have landed so strong. We were the Legion fire mages : abnormalities of versatility.

[Margeta]

I'm only speaking about PVE

It makes sense to have a choice between a permanent damage reduction and a short duration ability on the same talent line.
And I'm pretty satisfied I can chose a CC ability when not raiding (MM/MM+ and WQ) !

+ Soul leech will still be good baseline in raiding, so Sac Pact will be the way to go anyway.

[Deleted]

Well, voice your concerns in a civilized matter in the stickied warlock feedback thread, on the actual forums.

I'm trying to tell myself that they have some other nice changes coming that will counteract these. They do have a weird way of nerfing things before they buff something else. But there's also been plenty of occations where I waited for something that never came.

If you take Soul Leech and Dark Pact as isolated talents, they are stupid strong. They make us able to at least semi-cheese certain mechanics, and do so every minute. In an isolated scenario they do look a bit too strong. But then slap one of the most immobile iterations of a caster that ever existed on top of it, where you -have- to use it to soak to stay competitive.... they don't look that strong anymore.

I truly don't think this change would be all that bad if we weren't so reliant at patchwerk-style tunneling.

One more thing though, with this change - Soul Leech feels like it could just be removed from the talent tree. When will you pick that ahead of Dark Pact? Or Demonic Rush for general play like questing etc.

Dark Pact is basically a worse version of an Ice Block. Well, different at least. Dark Pact will only do so much, while Ice Block can save you from pretty much anything. Seriously, I wonder how mages would react if blink and ice block became talents, because it really feels like something like that for warlocks right now. And circle isn't even nearly as good as blink.