7.1 spoilers "An Elven Problem"

[Gurluas]

high elves are alliance sided.

Really the best way to fix this is to make the race neutral, like Pandaren. And make you choose in a new starting experience.
(And make a special quest chain for existing Belves to defect with Vereesa or something)

[Friendlyimmolation]

high elves are alliance sided.

I mean there might be some sin'dorei elves that escaped corruption, or joined them later on, pretty sure there is a blood elf in Dalaran with blue eyes.

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Really the best way to fix this is to make the race neutral, like Pandaren. And make you choose in a new starting experience.
(And make a special quest chain for existing Belves to defect with Vereesa or something)

No self respecting Blood elf would ever join Vereesa, nor there is a reason for them to be neutral but that is another topic. one that people need to move on from.
You have night elves. And you have Vereesa and a few of her cronies. The Thasslasian elves are with the Horde.

[Mace]

I think the nightborne will be neutral. Both nightborne elves and night elves of broken isles will be a neutral kingdom. They'll seek to unite all elves in the ancient Kal'dorei manner but done right this time.

if they become playable, I think a small group of nightborne will ally themselves with the night elves, reconnecting with nature but enough to take on their cause, the rest won't, they'll stay neutral above the alliance/horde conflict, together night elf and nightborne of the Broken Isles restoring what was lost aiming to bring in the northern kalimdor night elves, the high elves and the blood elves and stop their feud

Really the best way to fix this is to make the race neutral, like Pandaren. And make you choose in a new starting experience.
(And make a special quest chain for existing Belves to defect with Vereesa or something)

I doubt blizzard will allow another neutral playable race, if they do, we'd likely see nightborne on both horde and alliance, and high elves on alliance. Making nightborne and thalassian elves the neutral races... alternatively, they could stick nightborne on the horde and high elves on the alliance highlighting they are making both Night Elves and High Elves neutral, and nightborne are just the horde version of night elf, while High elves the alliance version of blood elves. The reason they are neutral now is because the elves have risen above horde/alliance conflicts and but are no longer blind to the effectiveness of the Alliance and Horde and instead seek to direct their potential to more beneficial and fruitful ends like fighting the legion/Azshara etc. knowing how volatile the two groups can be, the elves instead aim to ensure they don't destroy each other, they stand ready for the big fights, they don't create another Garrosh, Azshara, Medivh or Kale'thas, and they don't get in the way of Elven regeneration plans.

The new elven kingdom has huge quarters and ties to Dalaran, the Cenarion Circle and the Earthern ring as they not only seek to restore their fallen cities but the to heal and mend the shattered worlds and forests.

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No self respecting Blood elf would ever join Vereesa, nor there is a reason for them to be neutral but that is another topic. one that people need to move on from.
You have night elves. And you have Vereesa and a few of her cronies. The Thasslasian elves are with the Horde.

they won't be joining Vereesa, they would be joining the re-created or new Elven empire, led by Illidan and the Nightborne from Suramar. It would not be about Vereesa and any other blood elf's issues with her and as such, they will find themselves working together.

[Friendlyimmolation]

they won't be joining Vereesa, they would be joining the re-created or new Elven empire, led by Illidan and the Nightborne from Suramar. It would not be about Vereesa and any other blood elf's issues with her and as such, they will find themselves working together.

I'm not sure what you think is happening but there is no way they are all grouping together permanently with Tyrande wanting to destroy the nightwell etc.

[Mehrunes]

high elves are alliance sided.

Well, they could always wipe out the Silver Covenant and Quel'danil Lodge and have Auric and his people rejoin Quel'thalas as the last High Elves.

[Rhlor]

high elves are alliance sided.

there are many blood elves with blue eyes. a blood elf with blue eyes on the new patch already appeared in MoP

http://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=114887/la...he-steelweaver

[Mehrunes]

New race. So they aren't elves now are they? It said new race, it didn't say new race of elves.. so by your interpretations, Chronicles says the nightborne aren't elves.. beacuse it says new race...(/sarcasm) this is obviously not the case,

This is extreme mental gymnastics. Nothing in Chronicles or in jaikal's post said anything about Nightborne not being Elves. This is your shitty interpretation because you want to put words in people's mouths (and Chronicles writers, apparently) and you reaching at straws because you have nothing more than that. What Chronicle does say, very clearly and in English so simple one doesn't even need ravenmoon's amazing mastery of the language, that they were Night Elves in the past, goes about that past in quite detailed manner even, and that then they *gasp* stopped being Night Elves because they changed into another race.

When I refer to night elf, if I just say elf does that mean he is not a night elf? What if i call it a humanoid - does that stop him from being an elf and a night elf.

How is that relevant? This is you trying to draw a false equivalence between, whatever this is supposed to be, and racial transformations which you so desperately try to handwave away.

So just because the book says new race, does it stop it from being an Elf, and does it stop it from being a Night based elf or in short a night elf?

They were Night Elves before. They were changed by the Nightwell into something else. Hence, they aren't Night Elves. How the fuck is any of this complicated? And night elf isn't short for "night based elf". Night Elf is another name for Kaldorei.

No. It is a new race, a new race of elves, and a new race of night elves. Blizzard doesn't always precisely say night elf or blood elf or humanoid blood elf specifically all the time so the nerds don't argue. Finally the developers tell you exactly what type theare , these actually aren't a new race persay, they are the ancient night elves.

"A race of night elves" isn't a taxonomical group on Azeroth. There is one race of Night Elves. The actual Night Elves. And when was Blizzard exactly lacking in this precision?

And after that interview they once again repeated the thing about Nightwell altering them.

Furthermore they show you, and you must decide whether there isn't anything that is Night Elven about those very night based people.

There's nothing to decide because Night Elf refers to a specific race in WoW no matter how hard you and ravenmoon try to pretend otherwise and Chronicles states they stopped being that race.

[derpkitteh]

high elves are alliance sided.

high and blood elf are ideological splits only, eyes have nothing to do with it. the green eyed blood elves don't say you can't be one if your eyes are blue, you're just more likely to have blue eyes if you're ideologically in line with the high elves.

[Deleted]

I mean there might be some sin'dorei elves that escaped corruption, or joined them later on, pretty sure there is a blood elf in Dalaran with blue eyes.

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No self respecting Blood elf would ever join Vereesa, nor there is a reason for them to be neutral but that is another topic. one that people need to move on from.
You have night elves. And you have Vereesa and a few of her cronies. The Thasslasian elves are with the Horde.

Maybe for ideological reasons.

[derpkitteh]

Maybe for ideological reasons.

the blood elves are ideologically correct.

the high elves are ideologically stupid, tbh. they're basically alliance cucks "yes, master humans, back stab my people with your dick again and let us fight and die for you"

[Al Gorefiend]

the blood elves are ideologically correct.

the high elves are ideologically stupid, tbh. they're basically alliance cucks "yes, master humans, back stab my people with your dick again and let us fight and die for you"

Every race has been backstabbed at some point and got the hell over it. They were being babies

[Deleted]

now this is some truly disgusting OP. these so called rebels are one of the most revolting creatures that I have seen in WoW(rivaling H-h-help'Jin and his limp wristed menagerie), some leftist thrash level forms of existence, and that guy residing in starcuck retreat, mao ze schlong-ear - total fuel material. some bullshit drivel about fighting lower class. Blizzard writing gets more and more dangerous. I guess someone embraced the whispers of an old god.


for Elisande!

[Deleted]

Some offtopic, I want black hair for the other Night elf Classes too...

[ravenmoon]

I think the nightborne will be neutral. Both nightborne elves and night elves of broken isles will be a neutral kingdom. They'll seek to unite all elves in the ancient Kal'dorei manner but done right this time.

if they become playable, I think a small group of nightborne will ally themselves with the night elves, reconnecting with nature but enough to take on their cause, the rest won't, they'll stay neutral above the alliance/horde conflict, together night elf and nightborne of the Broken Isles restoring what was lost aiming to bring in the northern kalimdor night elves, the high elves and the blood elves and stop their feud

They'll be a night elf sub-race if we get sub-races going, but if we don't and they opt for normal races, I'd be more comfortable with neutral but would prefer night elf - i love a happy reunion. Blood elf and nightborne could also be a reunion, but I feel first dibbs should go to the night elves. It's the night elf expansion, let them get some good stuff - but the worry is they'd just become crap again, Night elves have been very boring in WoW, and my expectation was that nightborne were there big spicing up, but if it doesn't turn out to be the case, then they should keep them apart, because knowing blizzard they'd just make them rubbishy and mediocre. Happened once, could happen again. I prefer how blizzard handled the blood elves, gave them an amazing expansion and kept them going strong and interesting.

I thought that this might be the case with the Night Elves for this expansion with the nightborne - but I suspect they are going the neutral route which I have mixed feelings about. My love will follow the nightborne, unless they don't become more like the direction Thalyssra was going, but I will give up on the kal'dorei for good, because this was the chance to rise up again, and they were rather mediocre, no great ending or anything, and I'm tied of having expectations dashed with endings that just don't do justice.

Overall:
i think i would prefer the nightborne to remain neutral and unplayable, that way they can play a more effective part in the story without being nerfed like the night elves were because they got put in the alliance..

If they were playable I'd prefer them to be neutral too, cos that way they won't be nerfed either, but if they were going to choose a faction, I'd prefer them to link up with the Highborne and help out the Night elves, because the night elves just seem really crap without them.

[Taygames]

now this is some truly disgusting OP. these so called rebels are one of the most revolting creatures that I have seen in WoW(rivaling H-h-help'Jin and his limp wristed menagerie), some leftist thrash level forms of existence, and that guy residing in starcuck retreat, mao ze schlong-ear - total fuel material. some bullshit drivel about fighting lower class. Blizzard writing gets more and more dangerous. I guess someone embraced the whispers of an old god.


for Elisande!

What did this guy do to get banned?

[Deleted]

What did this guy do to get banned?

He got infracted on other threads. And honestly, it's about time that trolling shitposting is banned from the lore forum.

[Rhlor]

They'll be a night elf sub-race if we get sub-races going, but if we don't and they opt for normal races, I'd be more comfortable with neutral but would prefer night elf - i love a happy reunion. Blood elf and nightborne could also be a reunion, but I feel first dibbs should go to the night elves. It's the night elf expansion, let them get some good stuff - but the worry is they'd just become crap again, Night elves have been very boring in WoW, and my expectation was that nightborne were there big spicing up, but if it doesn't turn out to be the case, then they should keep them apart, because knowing blizzard they'd just make them rubbishy and mediocre. Happened once, could happen again. I prefer how blizzard handled the blood elves, gave them an amazing expansion and kept them going strong and interesting.

I thought that this might be the case with the Night Elves for this expansion with the nightborne - but I suspect they are going the neutral route which I have mixed feelings about. My love will follow the nightborne, unless they don't become more like the direction Thalyssra was going, but I will give up on the kal'dorei for good, because this was the chance to rise up again, and they were rather mediocre, no great ending or anything, and I'm tied of having expectations dashed with endings that just don't do justice.

Overall:
i think i would prefer the nightborne to remain neutral and unplayable, that way they can play a more effective part in the story without being nerfed like the night elves were because they got put in the alliance..

If they were playable I'd prefer them to be neutral too, cos that way they won't be nerfed either, but if they were going to choose a faction, I'd prefer them to link up with the Highborne and help out the Night elves, because the night elves just seem really crap without them.

i hope it gives at least one elf fraction in the lore as the Illidari, if all the elves can talk to each other it would be great. I have my hopes illidan because him created a faction of elves who are identified as one.

I want to see is the nightborne subrace of night elves, blood elves with blue eyes and Suramar capital of the new elven commonwealth (put the name you want)

[Mace]

This is extreme mental gymnastics. Nothing in Chronicles or in jaikal's post said anything about Nightborne not being Elves. This is your shitty interpretation because you want to put words in people's mouths (and Chronicles writers, apparently) and you reaching at straws because you have nothing more than that. What Chronicle does say, very clearly and in English so simple one doesn't even need ravenmoon's amazing mastery of the language, that they were Night Elves in the past, goes about that past in quite detailed manner even, and that then they *gasp* stopped being Night Elves because they changed into another race.




How is that relevant? This is you trying to draw a false equivalence between, whatever this is supposed to be, and racial transformations which you so desperately try to handwave away.




They were Night Elves before. They were changed by the Nightwell into something else. Hence, they aren't Night Elves. How the fuck is any of this complicated? And night elf isn't short for "night based elf". Night Elf is another name for Kaldorei.




"A race of night elves" isn't a taxonomical group on Azeroth. There is one race of Night Elves. The actual Night Elves. And when was Blizzard exactly lacking in this precision?




And after that interview they once again repeated the thing about Nightwell altering them.




There's nothing to decide because Night Elf refers to a specific race in WoW no matter how hard you and ravenmoon try to pretend otherwise and Chronicles states they stopped being that race.

I think you're have stretched the issue well past any sane or meaningful level.

You know there is such a thing as over-thinking, and also seeing what other people are trying to say, I've seen what you are saying and what Ravenmoon is saying and you're both right, you are basically arguing with seeing it that way, which is a perfectly valid way of seeing. And I prefer to look at it that way.

You see the nightborne elves for what they are. What is the difference between Night elf and Nightborne elf? Just the word borne. They may not be the same, but they're the same family, same genre, same ilk. Nightborne elves, night elves - kal'dorei empire, as Rhlor, Nightborne is just another tribe of the Kal'dorei, and you could say the other way round. Hey my family member has genetically mutated a bit... does that mean he and I are still not related? No

We are also not the same people. But we are related and we are connected. I may have gone down the path of following Jesus, he instead stuck to his intellectual pursuits. He still lives in our home city, I moved to the forests. 10k years we meet again, yay. We can kiss and make up, or we can stare coldly at each other, or fight demons or fight each other -- which it is will depend on what has gone on. He may need my help, I may need his help.

hey buet we understand each other, we may be a bit different, but we're still elves of the night, stars and moon are our thing - we are different tribes of the same family.

Sometimes Mehrunes, you just waste time going into specifics, especially arguing on the way a person views thing, get the jist of it, and after 1 or 2 attempts to dissuage or win a person over to you view, and they don't, just let it be.

[Aucald]

What did this guy do to get banned?

Moderation actions are not open to discussion within a forum. Feel free to PM me or another moderator if you need any clarification on the rules or codes of conduct, or have any questions in this particular vein.

[Mace]

@Mehrunes @ravenmoon .. when I see Nightborne, I see the Night Elves of the Ancient Kal'dorei empire returned all new and fancy lookin (kinda because it's not really improved it's a bit corrupted because of the nightwell). I don't see them as Kal'dorei, you never see Highborne or Nightborne refer to themselves as Kal'dorei, ever - it's like becoming Quel'dorei and now Shal'dorei is a status badge that is above just normal Kal'dorei. But more than that happened with the night elves of Suramar, it was more than just a status shift, because a racial transformation did happen. Try to look at it from the eyes of a nightborne. Your body has changed over time, but you don't feel or think of yourself any different, you are still the night elf you once were, in your customs, but the perpetual shroud of night as given your people to elevate themselves to a new level of Shal'dorei, no longer Kal'dorei or Quel'dorei, but Shal'dorei, a new race of the night elves. You are no longer a Night Elf, but a Nightborne Elf.

Now what RAvenmoon is doing, and I don't disagree with him, is he is stating that Nightborne Elf is still an elf of the night or in short, a night elf (rather than write elf of the night all the time or ancient Night elf, or nocturnal elf, you can shorten that to night elf beacause that is what the term also means. It isn't exclusive to the name of the group called the Night ELves, it's also just short for elf of the night also descriptive. This is what you've both beeen arguing over, and it makes little difference to anything except perhaps egos? They will always be Nightborne elves, not Night Elves, and continue to be elves of the night or night elves, and they willl continue to be the Ancient Night Elves in new form. So you've basically being arguing over a technicality... which is taking nerdism to a new level.