7.1 spoilers "An Elven Problem"

[ravenmoon]

Well, no. At least in the context of my post. Sure, it can be a source of Nightborne still being Night Elves, but:
1. What Zulkhan said on previous page can apply, they could have meant old Night Elves in that way he spoke about;
2. It's an interview, they made small errors in speech during interviews in the past, it's only human nature;
3. There is still a newer source that repeats after earlier sources that the Nightwell changed them.

Still, that's not source for "descriptive Night Elves" or "elves of the night" being things that exist in Warcraft nomenclature, which is ravenmoon's/Mace's primary argument.

When a source supports what I've been it's suddenly human error and nature, when it gives context also to what you're seeing and i point that out, it is now blizzard who made the error, but Mehrunes who's right. Will you say anything just to make me sound ludicrous, what did I do to you? Did it occur to you that I'm merely repeating what I've seen/heard? That I'm saying what I'm saying because of those very sources, and what they have said and what they have presented? Despite what you may think, I'm certainly am not taking this out of my head, I'm describing what I've been shown, what I've heard and what I've experienced, - so even when a source shows and says it plainly, it must be human error, because no one could possibly say what Ravenmoon is saying, - just doesn't occur to you that I'm actually only saying what they are saying. But it's some how mixed up when I'm saying it.thi

If the bit in Chronicles that outright says they became a new race didn't do that, Metzen himself could announce his return to make a whole expansion about them being different races and they'd still stay in their fanfiction bubble.

you keep using that statement from Chronicles as if it negates what I've been pointing out to you. It doesn't. If we follow your logic, Chronicles says it made them a new race. Why are you not arguing that they aren't a new race of elves, because the book didn't mention it in that quotation... as I pointed out to you before (after you admitted you don't read what I say), that they are a new race of elves and not just any elves, a new race of night elves is shown. They don't have to state it's a new race of elf or a new race of night elf. Just like every time they refer to night elf, they sometimes say Elf and they sometimes say humanoid.

But you continue to refuse to see what is been said and how it is been said, and don't fully read what I say and somehow feel you are qualifying yourself to argue against what I'm saying, when you're not even reading it.

I could swear I just said the only two mentions of "Elves of the night" on entire WoWPedia are edits made by you, but I guess I lacked ENGLISH MASTERY to know what I'm writing, my bad. And I see what you've been saying just fine. I have no clue why you're trying to force the idea that I'm not after telling you it's false at least five times, but it's as futile as you trying to force "elves of the night" nonsense to be a taxonomic group of elves that exists in WoW lore or applies to anything other than the Kaldorei even if it did exist.

No Mehrunes, I'm not trying to force anything, I made use of term that seemed a better way to convey what I was saying to you. When you weren't getting it, I used it a few times as well as other terms (as I wrote previously), if that is forcing in your book then guilty, but it isn't forcing, refusing to accept your narrative and giving your the benefit of the doubt by offering an explanation is not forcing, it's actually trying to have a discussion with you and explain something to you. But I see only hostility, sarcasm and condescenion in return.. why? because I don't agree with you? because I see it differently? because I bother to explain it to you? Is this your usual behaviour?

What description? Neither Nightborne nor Shal'dorei contain a description in their name themselves, just like they don't contain the name Night Elves/Kaldorei. Wait, is it the encyclopedia-like omniscient description in the Chronicles that outright states they are two different races which you continue to ignore? Why use it as an argument now then, especially since it still works against your narrative because there was no adjusted version of it so far? So I have no clue what you are trying to point out that's right in the description, but I suspect it's not what you think it is.

I'm talking about the night elvenness of the nightborne, I'm not talking about the nightborne being the same race as the night elves. You keep saying that as if I'm trying to say the Nightborne are the current Kal'dorei night elven race. That's not what I'm saying, I mentioned that way back when this all started - the proceeded to describe what I had observed. My observations were based on what I saw, and I heard. I keep telling you, I'm not referring to the genetic race. When I say the Nightborne night elves or the Nightborne are night elves, I'm not saying the Nightborne are the same race as the Kal'dorei ... that's not what I mean, you keep returning to this, and now you have a couple of other people thinking that is what I might be saying. Fortunately I do check and I'm able to explain to them what I'm saying, which they seem to get. Why do you keep coming back to this. It makes me think you either have a problem with me or have some weird thing about the Nightborne not having anything to do with Night elves and it's a major issue for you, because I can't understand why you keep coming back.

If you get the impression that Shal'dorei consider themselves Night Elves then how on Earth were you incapable to show a single one saying anything like that after me asking ten times?

I'm describing an observation, not quoting the in-game nightborne. The Highborne never once called themselves Night elves, nor do the Nightborne. In fact I recall the term nightborne used only once, Shal'dorei is the word that is use. I think that's to do with their society as others have commented. The proof is not in the terms they use to identify themselves, they identify themselves as who they are. Quel'dorei always call themselves Highborne or the Quel'dorei, Night Elves always call themselves Kal'dorei or the Night Elves, Nightborne always call themselves Shal'dorei or the Nightborne... that they are elves of the night or night elves, is clear for you to see. They all part of what is described to us in WotA or told and shown to us in Suramar legion as the ancient Night elven empire. When you observe them they are darker, more night based, more Night Elven symbology in Suramar their city, their models, their mounts, they seem the arcane version of the nature night elves, not the same, but the arcane version of it, and when you are finally revealed their history, you are told they are the Night elves of Suramar themselves that have been changed to this appearance, and you're told why, the Nightwell changed them over time, their society, their city, has continued unchanged, still the Night elven city and culture it was way back in the pre-sundering times.

And as others have said, they just seem even more night based, more night elven than the current night elves. Yes they are a new race, yes they are changed from Night elves, but to something even more night elven than what we know as night elves.

Highborne. Highborne Elves. High Elves. Who would have guessed, Shen'dralar are actually Thalassian. I guess Cataclysm didn't show us there are other types of night elves after all. Darkfallen. Darkfallen Elves. Dark Elves. Would you look at that, WoW actually has Drows. @Rhlor will be delighted. It was hiding in plain sight, but through the magic of ENGLISH MASTERY I pierced the veil and discovered this secret. Wretched. Wretched Elves. Wretch Elves. Whatever the fuck that may be. Yeah, no. Either elves of wretch (either "descriptive" or otherwise) are a thing that exists or this logic - wait, no, even calling that logical fallacy would a monumental stretch (then again it pales in the mental gymnastics you needed to make to construct your entire narrative) - this nonsense is inane. I patiently await you championing the idea of Wretch'dorei just to maintain your narrative.

In the Highborne and High Elf - High is the descriptive and defining word that defines the type of Elf, they don't have to be the genetic night elf race to qualify there, the game makes this clear. And you find out in this case Quel'dorei can be both night elf and high elf and we also find that highborne can be naga and they're not even elves. You know by what the game shows you. It shows you the "Highs" as being of noble birth, and shows you the Highborne night elves that continued to become High elves keeping the tag Quel'dorei, you dont dispute they are both Quel'dorei, the Highborne are a High Elf - high elf not as in High Elf race <<insert picture of a high elf>> but high elf as in an elf of high standing or high birth or officially noble birth. In the case of Nightborne and Night Elf, Night is defining word there. Nightborne elf and Night elf - they are elves of the night, or night elves, and they don't have to state that, you see it. Even though the Nightborne are not night elf race exactly genetically, they are still night elves, the elves continue on night based, night elf culture, they are night elves, just not the Night Elf genetically.

They don't need to say it that, because this is the observation, and it is a descriptive one as you are describing them by the thing they have in common and their name sake.. .the night. With Highborne and High elf it is noble birth or High birth that is the common thread that unites them. And off course you know the two groups are related even though their is a genetic variation amongst them. They are all still elves, different clans of the same group. Who do you think Elisande was referring to when she mentioned Quel'dorei in her speech? the high elves or the highborne? Ans = both.



FINAL

And please don't come back saying I write too much so you can't be bothered to read, and claim I am not answering the questions you've asked ten times because you couldn't be bothered to read my walls of text that became walls of text because I was explaining to you, not just a little bit, but a lot, in multiple ways so you couldn't possibly miss it.

Finally Mehrunes: Do you not think it is time to move on? Here's what the forum moderator wrote: I think you should just move on

An opinion, even one supported by facts and evidence, does not become a fact just because it has support. The vast majority of what we deal with here in the Lore forums are matters of opinion and personal observation - which everyone has a right to have for their own, and can support or argue to the best of their abilities. If you disagree with someone's opinion by all means say so, and present your own evidence, but once both positions have been stated and their merits and flaws outlined I think it best to cease further argument and/or allow other people to participate in support or with their own take.

After a certain point the back and forth of an argument just becomes noise and makes it more difficult for other people to participate. I think that point has been reached here. Let's see what other people have to say.

It is easy to understand.

[Gurluas]

Which is precisely what the nightborne have, only that their energy source is corrupt and once the body doesn't get its fix it deteriorates, but they don't die.



Their dependency is born from addiction, every highborn was addicted to magic after the well of eternity was gone and used different ways to cope. The Thalassians had the sunwell, nighborne the nightwell, shen'dralar had immol'thar and the elves in shandaral tried to copy the blue dragons ability to turn things into mana crystals to feed their hunger and killed themselves in the process, creating crystalsong forest.

The Sunwell was a pure arcane fount. Furthermore the Thalassian elves lived in the normal world.
The Nightborne got no sunlight, no moonlight, and they had no space for farms and such. And the Nightwell was not a natural arcane fount, but a creation of the Eye of Aman'thul.

The Nightborne had no choice but to use the Nightwell to nourish them too, and not just as an addiction fix.
The Nightborne are the only ones with a dependency, it doesn't matter if it started as an addiction. The only reason they got that far is because they needed to use the Arcane as nourishment and because the Nightwell got corrupted.

[Combatbutler]

The Sunwell was a pure arcane fount. Furthermore the Thalassian elves lived in the normal world.
The Nightborne got no sunlight, no moonlight, and they had no space for farms and such. And the Nightwell was not a natural arcane fount, but a creation of the Eye of Aman'thul.

The Nightborne had no choice but to use the Nightwell to nourish them too, and not just as an addiction fix.
The Nightborne are the only ones with a dependency, it doesn't matter if it started as an addiction. The only reason they got that far is because they needed to use the Arcane as nourishment and because the Nightwell got corrupted.

It is ultimately self inflicted, they are utterly dependent on the nightwell now, because they passed the point of ordinary addiction. They utterly screwed themselves over, by munching extremely potent arcane essence,all because they were too cowardly and paranoid to lower their shield once, which would have proven that everything was fine outside.

To quote Xal'atath

Xal'atath whispers: The fallen elves cower behind their wall. They know no other way

[Sarethion]

For the "addiction" thing.

The way it actually works is that Nightborne's problem isn't being addicted to the Nightwell.
The thing is - when the barrier was put up, they relied on the Nightwell energies for nourishment. In time this changed them to a point where they cannot live on traditional food and stuff. Hence, whenever a Nightborne is cut off from the Nightwell, he just slowly deteriorates (becomes skinny and stuff). The only difference is that instead of dying due to the lack of nourishment, they eventually turn to mindless and ever-hungry Withered, which might be a side effect of Nightwell's magic.

[derpkitteh]

what i really want to see explored is what happens if a nightborne/nightfallen taps into the sun well.

i will never be satisfied until i know that one specific thing. i'm so interested in how it will change them or effect them.

[Sarethion]

Xal'atath whispers: The fallen elves cower behind their wall. They know no other way

You're being way too rough.

From what I understand, they simply didn't know what happened to the world once the shield went up. For all they knew, Azeroth might have turned into another Legion world - if so, the shield was the only thing that would keep them from demons outside.

From their perspective, taking the shield down was a huge risk that they decided not to take.
They weren't cowards, they just decided to play it safe and not take unnecessary risks.

[Combatbutler]

For the "addiction" thing.

The way it actually works is that Nightborne's problem isn't being addicted to the Nightwell.
The thing is - when the barrier was put up, they relied on the Nightwell energies for nourishment. In time this changed them to a point where they cannot live on traditional food and stuff. Hence, whenever a Nightborne is cut off from the Nightwell, he just slowly deteriorates (becomes skinny and stuff). The only difference is that instead of dying due to the lack of nourishment, they eventually turn to mindless and ever-hungry Withered, which might be a side effect of Nightwell's magic.

They were already addicted to magic before they even created the nightwell, like every other highborne.

- - - Updated - - -

You're being way too rough.

From what I understand, they simply didn't know what happened to the world once the shield went up. For all they knew, Azeroth might have turned into another Legion world - if so, the shield was the only thing that would keep them from demons outside.

From their perspective it was simply a huge risk that they did not want to take.

They were utterly paranoid they could have lowered their shield for a brief moment, or tried spells to scry outside, but they were content to cower behind their shield turning to their nightwell not only for power ,which was its original purpose, but for nourishment as well. Thus leading to the very predicament they are in today.

[Aucald]

You're being way too rough.

From what I understand, they simply didn't know what happened to the world once the shield went up. For all they knew, Azeroth might have turned into another Legion world - if so, the shield was the only thing that would keep them from demons outside.

From their perspective it was simply a huge risk that they did not want to take.

That's just Xal'atath giving its own opinion - which as an Old God-allied sentience scans pretty well. Many people seem to take everything that thing says as absolute gospel, which would probably amuse it to no end if it were real.

[Combatbutler]

That's just Xal'atath giving its own opinion - which as an Old God-allied sentience scans pretty well. Many people seem to take everything that thing says as absolute gospel, which would probably amuse it to no end if it were real.

I used it as an example because it was spot on in this case, the highborne of Suramar always were cowardly, which is precisely why they didn't join the resistance after they decided to stop the legion portal, instead hiding under a magical dome, leaving their kin to clean up the rest.

[Sarethion]

They were already addicted to magic before they even created the nightwell, like every other highborne.

It's a fair point.
Still, their major problem now IS NOT that they might have remained addicted to magic, but that they are DEPENDENT on Nigthwell for nourishment. Especially considering that the Nigthwell uses Eye of Aman'Thul, which we happen to need and will probably take it - most likely depowering the Nightwell in the process. I imagine some further stories in Suramar will have us somehow find a viable replacement (maybe the Arcan'dor?).

They were utterly paranoid they could have lowered their shield for a brief moment

We don't know how much power and time it took to raise the shield for the first time. There is absolutely no guarantee that they would potentially be able to bring it back up before demons were all over them.

, or tried spells to scry outside

We don't know if it was possible. The shield was magical and could have, say, interfered with any scrying spells.

The best argument supporting your claim that I know is that somehow they could remove people from the city even with the shield up. And Gul'dan was able to enter the city with the shield up. So, potentially there might have been a way to send a small reconaissance party outside to see what's up.

they were content to cower behind their shield turning to their nightwell not only for power ,which was its original purpose, but for nourishment as well. Thus leading to the very predicament they are in today.

Let's put it in simple terms - you're a leader of a city. It's not perfect, but your city manages to survive. Let's assume you have no way of knowing how it is outside.
You have a choice - lower the shield and risk everything either getting to hell or becoming better, or stick to status quo and just keep it as it is?

- - - Updated - - -

I used it as an example because it was spot on in this case, the highborne of Suramar always were cowardly, which is precisely why they didn't join the resistance after they decided to stop the legion portal, instead hiding under a magical dome, leaving their kin to clean up the rest.

If they were really that cowardly, wouldn't they just stay on Queen's side and try to give in to the demons the first time?

[Combatbutler]

It's a fair point.
Still, their major problem now IS NOT that they might have remained addicted to magic, but that they are DEPENDENT on Nigthwell for nourishment. Especially considering that the Nigthwell uses Eye of Aman'Thul, which we happen to need and will probably take it - most likely depowering the Nightwell in the process. I imagine some further stories in Suramar will have us somehow find a viable replacement (maybe the Arcan'dor?).

Which again was the the consequence of their choice to remain under the shield, no one forced them to do this, they chose it.

We don't know how much power and time it took to raise the shield for the first time. There is absolutely no guarantee that they would potentially be able to bring it back up before demons were all over them.

They knew their shield wasn't attacked for millenia, that should have told them something.

We don't know if it was possible. The shield was magical and could have, say, interfered with any scrying spells.

So I must have imagined the dialogue they had with Gul'dan while they were still under that bubble

The best argument supporting your claim that I know is that somehow they could remove people from the city even with the shield up. And Gul'dan was able to enter the city with the shield up. So, potentially there might have been a way to send a small reconaissance party outside to see what's up.

Considering Guldan was able to chat with them through spells, yeah it was definitely possible.

Let's put it in simple terms - you're a leader of a city. It's not perfect, but your city manages to survive. Let's assume you have no way of knowing how it is outside.
You have a choice - lower the shield and risk everything either getting to hell or becoming better, or stick to status quo and just keep it as it is?

The legion would have assaulted the city shield, if they had won, but literally nothing happened for 10.000 years.

I personally would have waited a few months or until food almost ran out to look outside.

[Zoldor]

Honestly, the elf junkies that do the Aszuna line and the tailoring line I like. The Suramar elves I'd rather watch their city burn. They annoy me.

[Beloren]

what i really want to see explored is what happens if a nightborne/nightfallen taps into the sun well.

i will never be satisfied until i know that one specific thing. i'm so interested in how it will change them or effect them.

Do we know for sure that it was the Sunwell that changed them into High elves? wasn't it the long journey in exile?

[Sarethion]

Which again was the the consequence of their choice to remain under the shield, no one forced them to do this, they chose it.

That it ultimately was their choice is obvious. I'm not arguing against that - I'm just trying to provide some reasons as to why they might have chosen what they did.

They knew their shield wasn't attacked for millenia, that should have told them something.

It could have told them that a) Legion lost b) the world was nuked (pretty much like Outland) and the Legion doesn't care enough about remaining floating pieces to break through the shield.

So I must have imagined the dialogue they had with Gul'dan while they were still under that bubble

No need to be hostile, I'm just tryint to have a friendly discussion here.
Ok, good point here. Not gonna argue. If so, at least the communication was possible - i.e. they could have tried to make contact with someone outside. Like, send a small party out to scout the area and contact them after a while.

I personally would have waited a few months or until food almost ran out to look outside.

Which is fair, but there's a ton of people who wouldn't risk it. After all, it's easy to say when we're not put in such a situation and burdened with such responsibility that Suramar leaders potentially were. Just to reiterate - if they had a way to scry/send a small party/find out what happened outside in any way without endangering the city and they chose not to do it - I can agree with you, though I'm not sure it was more due to cowardice or just their ego. But if the choice was between "risking it" and "not looking at all", I can totally understand the decision they've made.

[Mehrunes]

Looks like I cut a bit too much when I removed parts addressed at other people. Then again upon reading them they seem to be about me so gotta reply to that as well.

If I say something, I literally am reading off a source whether book, page or in-game, interview, video on related stuff. You see how much I write? I think henceforce, I shall just present quotations to you when you start off one.

If I start off? Even ignoring that I provided sources already, you're the one claiming they are night elves, the burden of proof is on you for God's sake. And the only two mentions of "elves of the night" on entire WoWPedia that were written by totally-not-you have no sources. If totally-not-you couldn't provide any on a page that requires sources due to its nature, what exactly are you reading that term existing in WoW lore off? And even if you want to wait with providing sources for who knows what (a miracle, most likely), don't you think this would be over if you provided them anyway? Especially since I've asked you for them dozens of times already.

If you decide to twist them to prove you're right, then go on, kid yourself into thinking you're 100% objective and infallible.

This is the God-Emperor of all ironic statements ever made.

Other way round

So you're claiming that Springer06 from WoWPedia just so happens to use the exact same arguments as you, makes the same spelling mistakes as you (starting with Kaldorei), same writing style as you and even started using that interview with the same ~two week delay as you but is not you? What a coincidence then!

but that is not enough for some people. I mean - interview, panel, chronicles, in-game, the presentation and display, it seems ridiculous that I'm even having this argument, it's like the more I try to prove the point, the more he argues. He strikes me as one of those people who has to have the last word and one has to agree with his view or he'll just not stop.

Chronicle and game work against your argument. And you're not "trying to prove your argument more", you're just repeating yourself over and over again. No shit I'm going to continue arguing then, if I'm asking for sources or specific examples and you just write the same things as before or go on how it's obvious that "elves of night" are a thing and how Nightborne have to be them because they have "night" in the name. Instead you keep trying to conjure up "elves of the night" as taxonomic terminology being applicable to and used in WoW, when there are no sources for that on the WoWPedia you "sound like" (specifically the user there that"obviously" isn't you but "just happens" to have the same Night Elf obsession manifesting in the exact same way). And I disagree with other people just fine so drop your horseshit projections. But I guess when you have nothing going for your actual argument trying to dismiss me is your strategy of choice.

Exactly, I get the impression of this too, but he's so rude about it - insulting too. I've even gone as far as to tell him what he is saying is right to an extent in the context he is saying it, but he is just being bullishly stubborn of what I say, I think because it's me that's saying. He responds like that to me.. and it sours and detracts from a topic. If he wants to continue this discussion, he can private message me.

Spreading fanfiction on a forum dedicated to lore is rude too in my opinion. And what you're saying has no sources, for the most part lacks logic and is simply wrong.

[derpkitteh]

Do we know for sure that it was the Sunwell that changed them into High elves? wasn't it the long journey in exile?

it might have been, idk.

i'm not really talking about the physical change. i'm wondering how the mix of light and arcane and will effect their need for magic, if it might cure withered, or cure the need for magic in general.

i'm just mostly interested in how the light and arcane mix effects everything that's tapping into it. they haven't even said any real details about how it's changing or not changing quel'thalas.

[Beloren]

It's a fair point.
Still, their major problem now IS NOT that they might have remained addicted to magic, but that they are DEPENDENT on Nigthwell for nourishment. Especially considering that the Nigthwell uses Eye of Aman'Thul, which we happen to need and will probably take it - most likely depowering the Nightwell in the process. I imagine some further stories in Suramar will have us somehow find a viable replacement (maybe the Arcan'dor?).


We don't know how much power and time it took to raise the shield for the first time. There is absolutely no guarantee that they would potentially be able to bring it back up before demons were all over them.


We don't know if it was possible. The shield was magical and could have, say, interfered with any scrying spells.

The best argument supporting your claim that I know is that somehow they could remove people from the city even with the shield up. And Gul'dan was able to enter the city with the shield up. So, potentially there might have been a way to send a small reconaissance party outside to see what's up.


Let's put it in simple terms - you're a leader of a city. It's not perfect, but your city manages to survive. Let's assume you have no way of knowing how it is outside.
You have a choice - lower the shield and risk everything either getting to hell or becoming better, or stick to status quo and just keep it as it is?

- - - Updated - - -


If they were really that cowardly, wouldn't they just stay on Queen's side and try to give in to the demons the first time?

Agreed. I don't think they were that cowardly at all, Thaedris Feathersong, in Tel'anor - is a bit jaded, in his melancholy do you not see he has a rather overly depressing and view of the whole thing.

He's view point is exaggerated, and I think this is the source of those who think they were cowardly. The guy's been exiled, for doing the right thing and not being kosher with demons walking the street, his wife and so many brave night elves died fighting only for Elisande to just let them in. So he is basically sulking. And while what he says does have a grain of truth, it's more a point of view than actually the case.

As you can see, the thrust of the entire rebellion is to remind them who they once were, the brave night elves that stood against the Legion, even defying the most adorable Azshara they all loved. This is what Thalyssra and Lunastre tap in to, and can't shake or believe that Elisande despite the stakes would do, and that Melandrus would back stab her.. I mean.. A couple really took a shine to the Legion, the Star Augur head himself, and one of the Lord's of a House, but most don't.

Given the situation they find themselves in, those of the rebellion and those that join them, are doing a very brave thing, and going about it smart, rather than jumping out in the open in protest.

[Sarethion]

Given the situation they find themselves in, those of the rebellion and those that join them, are doing a very brave thing, and going about it smart, rather than jumping out in the open in protest.

Yeah, I really like some of the rebels, especially Thalyssra and Vanthir. I also felt very bad for the vineyard lady (Margaux) who stood up for one of her people and ended up being executed for it.

I feel like a lot of them might have spoken for lowering the barrier earlier or at least trying to find a way to see what's on the other side of it.

[ravenmoon]

Looks like I cut a bit too much when I removed parts addressed at other people. Then again upon reading them they seem to be about me so gotta reply to that as well.



If I start off? Even ignoring that I provided sources already, you're the one claiming they are night elves, the burden of proof is on you for God's sake. And the only two mentions of "elves of the night" on entire WoWPedia that were written by totally-not-you have no sources. If totally-not-you couldn't provide any on a page that requires sources due to its nature, what exactly are you reading that term existing in WoW lore off? And even if you want to wait with providing sources for who knows what (a miracle, most likely), don't you think this would be over if you provided them anyway? Especially since I've asked you for them dozens of times already.




This is the God-Emperor of all ironic statements ever made.




So you're claiming that Springer06 from WoWPedia just so happens to use the exact same arguments as you, makes the same spelling mistakes as you (starting with Kaldorei), same writing style as you and even started using that interview with the same ~two week delay as you is not you? What a coincidence then!




Chronicle and came work against your argument. And you're not "trying to prove your argument more", you're just repeating yourself over and over again. No shit I'm going to continue arguing then, if I'm asking for sources or specific examples and you just write the same things as before or go on how it's obvious that "elves of night" are a thing and how Nightborne have to be them because they have "night" in the name. Instead you keep trying to conjure up "elves of the night" as taxonomic terminology being applicable to and used in WoW, when there are no sources for that on the WoWPedia you "sound like" (specifically the user there that"obviously" isn't you but "just happens" to have the same Night Elf obsession manifesting in the exact same way). And I disagree with other people just fine so drop your horseshit projections. But I guess when you have nothing going for your actual argument trying to dismiss me is your strategy of choice.




Spreading fanfiction on a forum dedicated to lore is rude too in my opinion. And what you're saying has no sources, for the most part lacks logic and is simply wro

Mehrunes, you're what people where I come from refer to as a "RED HERRING". You don't seem interested in truth or in discussion, just in proving your point no matter the cost and having the last word. I bet you're never wrong in your own eyes.

I don't think it's beneficial going over any more arguments with you. You mention the irony in my statements, but blind to the ones in yours, or maybe you do spot the irony in what you say, but try to turn it around. You actually attack a person rather than the argument - as if to prove a point. Listen, I have nothing new to add here, all the answers to the questions you asking have been provided for you. Long since qualified my statements with numerous explanations and versions including the sources of them. If you want to discount official sources as human error, or human nature mistakes, if you want to twist what the lore source says to prove your point which is not being disputed which is what I find incredulous and conveniently fail to respond to a rebuttal directly but instead draw attention to made up character accusations, use aggressive and distasteful language to do so also, and think that I should continue to indulge your vendetta and respond to you? My answers, discussion, thoughts, opinions, observations, are all there.

But 3rd time now, if you want to carry this on, feel free to private message me, but stop sour graping this entire thread, notice your responses dude, you've been mouthing and rudely too with condescension and derision specifically at me, alot through this thread. No provocation was given you, you were invited to calm down, also invited to carry on in private, also pointed out to stop arguing about opinions, so this topic can continue, but you're behaving like a dog with a bone, you just can't let go. I think you should stop man, I'm not going to ask again. QUIT it, NOW !!

[Friendlyimmolation]

Mehrunes, you're what people where I come from refer to as a "RED HERRING". You don't seem interested in truth or in discussion, just in proving your point no matter the cost and having the last word. I bet you're never wrong in your own eyes.

I don't think it's beneficial going over any more arguments with you. You mention the irony in my statements, but blind to the ones in yours, or maybe you do spot the irony in what you say, but try to turn it around. You actually attack a person rather than the argument - as if to prove a point. Listen, I have nothing new to add here, all the answers to the questions you asking have been provided for you. Long since qualified my statements with numerous explanations and versions including the sources of them. If you want to discount official sources as human error, or human nature mistakes, if you want to twist what the lore source says to prove your point which is not being disputed which is what I find incredulous and conveniently fail to respond to a rebuttal directly but instead draw attention to made up character accusations, use aggressive and distasteful language to do so also, and think that I should continue to indulge your vendetta and respond to you? My answers, discussion, thoughts, opinions, observations, are all there.

But 3rd time now, if you want to carry this on, feel free to private message me, but stop sour graping this entire thread, notice your responses dude, you've been mouthing and rudely too with condescension and derision specifically at me, alot through this thread. No provocation was given you, you were invited to calm down, also invited to carry on in private, also pointed out to stop arguing about opinions, so this topic can continue, but you're behaving like a dog with a bone, you just can't let go. I think you should stop man, I'm not going to ask again. QUIT it, NOW !!

I think the biggest problem with your posts is you almost seem to be saying " do what I say not what I do" for all this talk about it "just being opinions " when ever you begin on certain subjects, you're still trying to push it as fact.