Is 850 item level gear incentive enough to do kara?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Yeah - doesn't get me very far, would be good if I had a tank or healer to help things.

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I'm at 843 currently.



Only the lack of healer/tank really.

lol ~ Ok, but stop pretending that anyone is stopping you but you. "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." Your problems are entirely self-inflicted at this point.

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The problem hes talking about is that all of the groups are suffering from a lack of healers

So you have to wait in line for heals? I do it at least a couple times a week, when my regular running-mate healer is away. Yeah takes a bit longer, but welcome to the club! Having to wait on a healer doesn't count as any special hardship, it's something we all deal with. Hasn't stopped the rest of us from clearing all the mythics every week.

[Deleted]

I'm fully ok with it as it is, I know I'll prolly just end up doing it once or twice to check it out, simply based on the premise that I'll probably be fully raid geared fairly early. But I do think it's a nice little bonus for those who aren't raiding mythic. As with a massive 5 man even smaller groups have something raidlike to look forward to. 850 is justified in my eyes as it's not so high that it'll make people cry about it being mandatory, but it's still a step up from regular mythics.

[IIamaKing]

Indeed, I don't really find any of the arguments against queues to be compelling at all. Most of it from the players comes down to a veiled desire to keep others out once they've "got theirs" and I guess from the Blizzard end it's a fear of the Cataclysm heroics issue?

If anything, I think we're finding that NOT allowing people to queue for 5-mans is worse than the possible Cataclysm pug issue. It's one thing for casuals to wipe and feel sad, it's another to feel stonewalled from the content altogether.

Thats exactly it, I LOVED them as did every one I knew. They were nerfed in short order when the LFG masses couldn't be arsed to CC and focus down the bad adds ect..... Id rather that not happen to mythics.

People unwilling to put in the effort to go get a group, either through guild, trade chat, friends or the very handy Group Finder tool, that content is not for them. The path is open to all, walk it or not, but dont bitch that there is a moving sidewalk for you.

[Otimus]

Indeed, I don't really find any of the arguments against queues to be compelling at all. Most of it from the players comes down to a veiled desire to keep others out once they've "got theirs" and I guess from the Blizzard end it's a fear of the Cataclysm heroics issue?

If anything, I think we're finding that NOT allowing people to queue for 5-mans is worse than the possible Cataclysm pug issue. It's one thing for casuals to wipe and feel sad, it's another to feel stonewalled from the content altogether.

What's really weird is a good number of folks are going on about how easy they are. If that's the case, why CAN'T it be in a queue, then?

Either you're keeping it out of a queue because of the reasons you stated, difficulty, or because you want to attempt to force (and it will fail, it always has failed) to try and make players social.

[Darkeon]

Pretty much. Worrying about someone with a lower iLevel of being there with the "advanced" players? Increase the Queue-able LFD requirements (of this one and, in my opinion, to all mythic content) to an higher iLevel.

In the end that'll be no different than having someone's group on the LFG tool and accepting some random dude with an acceptable iLevel. You also don't know if said player will CC, or do proper DPS, etc.

[IIamaKing]

Which is funny because if you ask them if you can join their mythic run, their tune does a 180 and suddenly it's hard and serious and 835 is too low and it'll be horrible and oh no.

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None of that is a compelling argument, though. It's nothing more than you wanting to keep people out of "your" content.

You wouldn't even have to use the queue if it existed. So your worries about doom and gloom and running into a newbie aren't even valid.

The concern would be that JUST like with cat roics, the masses bitch and moan about content they cant do, gets nerfed so they can. It is an argument.

Now I would have no issue with Kara 5m being split into 2 wings and tossed into the heroic Q so every one who is too lazy, scared, bad, or w/e can SEE it.

But tossing mythics into the LFD system runs the risk of them ending up nerfed into face roll ala cata roics.

[Ealyssa]

There are plenty of reasons why Mythic Dungeons should be available to queue. They aren't challenging enough to warrant their exclusiveness being first and foremost.

Fine that there is no exclusiveness to play them then. Not being in a LF tool doesn't exclude you to do them, not even a little.

[ejpaints]

I'll do Kara for the mounts and to get to see it. I stopped caring what my ilvl was ages ago.

[IIamaKing]

But you already said they're easy.

I dont know how hard Kara will be, nor do you. SO, again with your strawman bad arguing BS.

Yes, mythics are not super hard, from my perspective, Cata and TBC roics weren't either. But they were too hard for the masses.

Why am I responding to you still?

[Ealyssa]

Again, if it's all "equal", then why the opposition to queues at all?

Because blizzard doesn't want to ? It's their game, their design choice.

Not liking it ? Maybe leave ? Show them with your money how you disagree with their choice ?

[Wildpantz]

So many people is like omg kara needs rewards! Isnt the chance of titanforge and hopefully an awesome dungeon enough. Also queable content killed the social part of mmos also made difficulty trivial

[IIamaKing]

We were clearly discussing current mythics, but nice try.



So again, why the huge concern about how other people do things?

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I'm not sure, you keep making yourself look worse every time you do. It's pretty clear that you're a huge hypocrite who believes that having a higher item level justifies said hypocrisy.

1. this is a thread about KARA, so no, we werent, but thats what you do, conflate everything together and argue against that amalgam.
2. If those people bitch and moan and they wind up nerfing them to appease those masses. As they did in Cata.
3. You keep on thinking that.

[Alvito]

Considering it will likley be harder than normal raids, yes I do.

That is a big assumption to jump to based on nothing. We will have to wait and see how the difficulty turns out, either way I am fine with it not being higher then an 850 base. Dungeons aren't and shouldn't be the main source of loot for people. Bumping the item levels up much more would leave gear that upgrades jumping over raid gear easily.

[PowerOfTwo]

Pugging through LFG is both easy and has gone very well so far. Sounds like you're just crippling yourself.

Pugging at the start of an xpac tends to be realy easy tho, it's like the start of a season in LoL or overwatch etc. only backwards, you have alot of good people that need to do that need to do them and for whatever reason not do them with their guilds. Maybe there's to many dps, maybe they play at odd hours, maybe their just impatient and don't want to wait for the weekend guild run, who knows.

Also with the hardcap on ilvl , expectations are kinda more realistic... just wait a few months and you'll see people asking 875 for M0... having allready proven that their a stomp at 830... ah the internet.

That is a big assumption to jump to based on nothing. We will have to wait and see how the difficulty turns out, either way I am fine with it not being higher then an 850 base. Dungeons aren't and shouldn't be the main source of loot for people. Bumping the item levels up much more would leave gear that upgrades jumping over raid gear easily.

That's a pretty sweeping statement, i see no problem for dungeons dropping items equivalent to raids if they're apropriately difficult... remember when SH HC SPEEDRUN was 60 mins....? Hell if they're a step down from raids i wouldn't mind them dropping good gear, they're a nice hook to keep non-raiders subbed and a bigger playerbase is good for everyone. Or is this an epeen thing?

[Mafic]

They said they gave it a weekly lockout so they could make the gear a higher item level. 850 is pretty low considering its rather easy to get that in mythic and mythic plus dungeons. Should have been 860 or 865.

Not worth it.

It seems the entire Legion reward structure is not well thought out.

[Gilthresa]

The new nightbane and midnight mounts are enough incentive for me.

[Kagthul]

I would hope that Kara (supposedly being a "mini raid") with a weekly lockout could accomodate higher iLevel base gear.

My reasoning for this is...

by the time it launches, even casual players can have an entire set of crafted gear with perfect secondaries at 850.

I've already got a full set of cloth of the Feverflare for my Afflock, at the base. With my current rate of crafting (just using what im finding, not even grinding) i can get enough Oblit to upgrade about 3 pieces every 2 weeks.

If i actually went out and farmed cloth and other mats, i could make that 3 a week, pretty easily, without spending "lots" of time in WoW (90 minutes a day or so).

On top of that - im already 840 average (with an 850 BiS trink, 845 nearly BiS trink, 850 head, 850 near-perfect neck) and haven't even done a Heroic dungeon. Not one.

If all Kara awards is 850s, even relatively casual players like me who dont raid will have better gear than it drops before it comes out, unless its coming out in like early october, (which im not seeing).

I'd rather see it drop 860, and be tuned for people wearing 845+ and difficult even for that. If it takes 4+ hours to clear, so be it. It can be the "raid" for us non-raiders who just play with a few friends, and raiders can burn through it and get the few pieces they need without it feeling like a chore.

[ShiyoKozuki]

With that train of thought, you'd also have to be willing to start merging realms, as some just can't sustain themselves that way (Which is really all a lot of the stuff Blizzard has done has been to avoid doing, for whatever reason (my guess is it's because realm mergers are always seen as bad publicity).

That's another HUGE problem entirely. Not merging but connected. It's 100% unacceptable of them to let servers be barren wastelands.

[Otimus]

That's another HUGE problem entirely. Not merging but connected. It's 100% unacceptable of them to let servers be barren wastelands.

The game has waaaaaaaaaaaay too many realms. They should have started merging them pre-cata launch, IMHO.

[Cosmic Janitor]

If 850 is before procs I'm okay with it. Currently I'm happy to find any reason to actually raid this tier and not just farm 2 more world quests .
Maybe there are some fun items in it, instead of just bland crap with versatility and mastery on it ><.