Trying to love Versatility

[Geckoo]

In my opinion a flat damage increase that has no interaction with any of the spec mechanics should never be the most desired stat. The fact that right now it is is just a proof that something is not quite right with how the specs work.

But I'm still curious if Vers got better, or the other stats got worse, or some combination of both. Thanks.

Mostly the specs got worse when it comes to stat interaction.

Take a look at assassination for example...
- Rupture is dominating the spec's damage, but rupture is neither affected by haste or mastery.
- Our mastery only affects one aspect of our damage and even if you try to get as much mastery as possible... rupture will still be the top of the list.
- Haste always had low value for assassination, the way to speed up the spec is with critical strike since mutilate critical strikes provides more combo points.
- Having more combo points provides more envenom windows... do you remember what i said about poison damage and our mastery? yeah, that will keep a constant damage, but the main star on stage will still be rupture.

- Versatility will increase your rupture damage. It will also increase your poison damage. It will also increase your mutilate critical strikes damage. It will increase all damage!

You can see similar tendencies with the other two specs. Versatility got better because the spec's main damaging abilities have little to 0 interaction with the other stats.

Edit: I know it seems strange, but you'll get used to it. Versatility never was a bad stat, just a boring one.

[Chemii]

Stats are the least interesting part of this game and have been for sometime.

Beyond very few exceptions, the item level of something and/or how much agility it has will win every-single-time.

I can't help but feeling they missed an opportunity to make Relics actually interesting by making them swap-able but no, just another item level brain dead decision.

[omeomorfismo]

simply because versatility is a flat and linear dps increase and this means that if other class have the other 3 stats more valuable they will scale more and better (in the sense of more than a linear function)

[Drakpower]

In my opinion a flat damage increase that has no interaction with any of the spec mechanics should never be the most desired stat. The fact that right now it is is just a proof that something is not quite right with how the specs work.



Mostly the specs got worse when it comes to stat interaction.

Take a look at assassination for example...
- Rupture is dominating the spec's damage, but rupture is neither affected by haste or mastery.
- Our mastery only affects one aspect of our damage and even if you try to get as much mastery as possible... rupture will still be the top of the list.
- Haste always had low value for assassination, the way to speed up the spec is with critical strike since mutilate critical strikes provides more combo points.
- Having more combo points provides more envenom windows... do you remember what i said about poison damage and our mastery? yeah, that will keep a constant damage, but the main star on stage will still be rupture.

- Versatility will increase your rupture damage. It will also increase your poison damage. It will also increase your mutilate critical strikes damage. It will increase all damage!

You can see similar tendencies with the other two specs. Versatility got better because the spec's main damaging abilities have little to 0 interaction with the other stats.

Edit: I know it seems strange, but you'll get used to it. Versatility never was a bad stat, just a boring one.

Great example, thank you. Maybe it's time to cross out Haste and put in versatility in your sig

[Segus1992]

At least Versatility is miles more interesting than main stat is nowadays. Fuck man, we complain about Versatility (understandably) but we don't really stop to consider how terribly boring the main stats have become once they removed all the secondary effects of them (Agi - Crit/Dodge, Str - Parry, Int - Crit/Mana).

[ymirsson]

At least Versatility is miles more interesting than main stat is nowadays. Fuck man, we complain about Versatility (understandably) but we don't really stop to consider how terribly boring the main stats have become once they removed all the secondary effects of them (Agi - Crit/Dodge, Str - Parry, Int - Crit/Mana).

Spot on. They could remove main stat and make items scale with ilvl alone and all that would change would be a missing number for an imaginary attribute your character is supposed to have.

[hellothere321]

Wouldn't scaling with simple Versatility mean our scaling is horrible and that we are going to be screwed later in the expansion?

[ymirsson]

Wouldn't scaling with simple Versatility mean our scaling is horrible and that we are going to be screwed later in the expansion?

No
10chars.

[Edito]

I think vers is outlaws best stat only when you get T19.
Run through has 50% chance of making the nest slash zero energy, which basically means you need no energy regain during artifact burst and much less
energy regain overall.

Now haste could be outlaw's best stat depending on your crit/vers.

Vers' value also depend on crit, when you increase 1% of vers or crit, you gain 1% dps benefited from the other one,
you naturally have more crit than vers that's why vers is better than crit despite more expensive than crit.
When you have similar vers/crit. crit would be a better stat.

Assasination's mastery and haste are shit.
Sub IMO is not playable without the legendary shoe, which will be your major energy source.

[hellothere321]

I think vers is outlaws best stat only when you get T19.
Run through has 50% chance of making the nest slash zero energy, which basically means you need no energy regain during artifact burst and much less
energy regain overall.

Now haste could be outlaw's best stat depending on your crit/vers.

Vers' value also depend on crit, when you increase 1% of vers or crit, you gain 1% dps benefited from the other one,
you naturally have more crit than vers that's why vers is better than crit despite more expensive than crit.
When you have similar vers/crit. crit would be a better stat.

Assasination's mastery and haste are shit.
Sub IMO is not playable without the legendary shoe, which will be your major energy source.

Yeah but the fact that Vers is our best stat just makes it so that we scale poorly in the later tiers which is what's going to be happening...

[bloodmoth13]

why does it matter? what makes mastery so much cooler than vers? if it's the best stat, it's the best stat.

The other stats change how the game plays and provide bonuses in more interesting ways.

Haste makes your gameplay faster
Critical hit chance gives you more of those exciting big yellow numbers
mastery sometimes interacts in an interesting way
versatility? well thats just stats!

[Chasin]

Exactly. For me, if I think 'Rogue', it's all about haste or crit, depending on what spec.
Haste or crit just fits the Rogue-character very well.

Versatility is rather just boring and doesn't give you satisfaction in my opinion...

The stat prio could be changed in future patches, ...right?

[Morween]

Outlaw Rogue will scale really well stat wise as we take benefit from all secondary stats and you need to have them in balance what concernes me is that we dont scale so well with our 2 golden traits (blunderbuss and andrenaline rush one) that suck and weapon damage that doesnt impact run through at all

[ymirsson]

Yeah but the fact that Vers is our best stat just makes it so that we scale poorly in the later tiers which is what's going to be happening...

How does it makes it so? Do you have any proof? Did you use your brain for more then just randomly writing nonsense on the internet?

[omeomorfismo]

How does it makes it so? Do you have any proof? Did you use your brain for more then just randomly writing nonsense on the internet?

i think its only math
if, example, 100 vers are like 1% dmg increase, this means a 1% dps increase for all classes
meanwhile if for assa 100 mastery increase the dps for only 0.5%, then vers>mastery.
if a class has a star priority mastery>vers hence we know that 100 mastery at least is an increase of 1% dps. if this is true even for crit and haste then we have 3 stat that for every 100 points we have 3 dps increase strictly above 1%, meanwhile for assa 3 dps increase stricly under 1%. the difference between both is the scaling issue.

clearly this is the simple way, because we can consider how this stat increase the dps.
versatility is a linear increase, basically is a function dps(vers)=k*vers, and this is true for every class
then we have the other 3 stat that interact with the spell, so the functions for dps can not be linear, for example crit is random then it affect directly the dps distribution (the graph in sims with the dps in the x axis) but we can clearly consider the mean of outcomes to estimate the dps increase.
but the point is that if sims tell us that a stat grow (for IL) strictly above versatility then the dps function for that stat is at least linear with k scaling. if we are "lucky" this will be ~dps(stat)=k'*stat with k'>k, but potentially it can be a polynomial scaling (like stat^2, stat^3, etc) o exponential.
conversely if a stat i strictly above vers then it is at max a linear function with k'< k, but potentially it can be a irrational function (stat^0.5) or logarithmic

[Twinkelle]

I like it. I enjoy taking a little bit less damage. I imagine the healers appreciate it, too!

[Akka]

Be like me, just dont give a fuck about anything and just enjoy the game

I don't know about you, but personally when I stop giving a fuck about anything, it's because I'm bored (I'd even say it's the DEFINITION of bored), not that I'm enjoying...

[Deleted]

You see how bad all specs across the board, especially this one scales.
Vers BIS stat means you wont see a big increase of DPS after the item level raises.

[Sephiroso]

The other stats change how the game plays and provide bonuses in more interesting ways.

Haste makes your gameplay faster
Critical hit chance gives you more of those exciting big yellow numbers
mastery sometimes interacts in an interesting way
versatility? well thats just stats!

You're reaching and its pathetic. The only stat that changes anything is haste in that we get more energy regen due to combat potency. Every other stat changes nothing but more damage.

- - - Updated - - -

i think its only math
if, example, 100 vers are like 1% dmg increase, this means a 1% dps increase for all classes
meanwhile if for assa 100 mastery increase the dps for only 0.5%, then vers>mastery.
if a class has a star priority mastery>vers hence we know that 100 mastery at least is an increase of 1% dps. if this is true even for crit and haste then we have 3 stat that for every 100 points we have 3 dps increase strictly above 1%, meanwhile for assa 3 dps increase stricly under 1%. the difference between both is the scaling issue.

clearly this is the simple way, because we can consider how this stat increase the dps.
versatility is a linear increase, basically is a function dps(vers)=k*vers, and this is true for every class
then we have the other 3 stat that interact with the spell, so the functions for dps can not be linear, for example crit is random then it affect directly the dps distribution (the graph in sims with the dps in the x axis) but we can clearly consider the mean of outcomes to estimate the dps increase.
but the point is that if sims tell us that a stat grow (for IL) strictly above versatility then the dps function for that stat is at least linear with k scaling. if we are "lucky" this will be ~dps(stat)=k'*stat with k'>k, but potentially it can be a polynomial scaling (like stat^2, stat^3, etc) o exponential.
conversely if a stat i strictly above vers then it is at max a linear function with k'< k, but potentially it can be a irrational function (stat^0.5) or logarithmic

1. you're assuming every class needs the same amount of vers to get 1%.
2. you're completely ignoring all stats as a balance, and just focusing on "if a stat is better than vers for a class..." logic that doesn't hold up because again, you're ignoring all the stats and just looking at which ones are better than vers.

point being, you put a lot of thought into something and overcomplicated it and straight up ignored everything else. Outlaw will scale just fine because ALL stats are good. Just because "crit" is a fire mages best stat doesn't mean a fire mage will want(nor will it even be possible to have) crit on every single slot of their gear.

[Blayke]

Wow, never dreamed I'd opened up such a can of worms.

It would seem from the number of posts arguing over which stat is the most "boring", and the relative paucity of posts actually addressing my question, that the answer to this lies in the vague netherworld of sims and apl's.

Why is it better now? Because the sims say it is. End of story, apparently.