Fury Stat Primer

[Archimtiros]

I was actually about to make a post about this same topic, when I noticed this thread that Arch started.

At Ask Mr. Robot we have been recommending high Haste for fury since Legion launch, since we saw the same trend in our simulation results as Arch. We were getting dozens of questions about the 18% supposed haste cap for Fury, and always telling them to just gear for Haste. Glad to see some consensus on that approach is being reached. (And that I'm not crazy.)

One thing that I have noticed is that Crit and Mastery are really falling within margin of error of each other in the simulations I have done. As long as you are favoring Haste first, picking mastery or crit as the second stat just doesn't seem to matter that much.

I've improved on the Fury rotation in the AMR simulator and noticed a few things in the SimC APL that could be improved to get better results with some of the other talent choices:
1.) Massacre and Frothing Berserker are really just about equal in value in my tests. The SimC APL is allowing Rampage to be used at less than 100 rage when you don't have enrage, which is reducing Frothing Berserker uptime over the course of the simulation, devaluing it slightly and making Massacre look a tad better compared to it.
2.) Inner Rage is still the only real option for single target damage, but, to get a fair comparison we need to do good simulations of the other two talents.
2a.) The SimC APL needs to make sure to refresh Frenzy if it is about to fall off. It's letting Frenzy drop and making the talent look even weaker than it already is.
2b.) SimC is delaying Bloodbath until Battle Cry is ready and this results in less Bloodbath uptime and lower damage overall. Delaying it for AoE is a DPS gain, but, on a single target I'm getting much better results by using it on cooldown instead of waiting for Battle Cry.

Here is a comparison of talent choices that I did, just for curiosity. I don't think there is anything unexpected here:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...053fdeed68640a

As I said in an earlier response, Crit and Mastery have a natural relationship with one another, so it's not unusual that their often near each other. Haste plays into this as well, since its weighted in a series of steps rather than being consistently strong (it's actually quite possible to make a change which results in a minor increase in Haste and results in simulated DPS to go down), but the overall effect is a continual rise over time. That said, there are times in which Mastery can actually leapfrog Haste, although it's rare and usually the result of one of these natural peaks&valleys.

1. Massacre is better on long longer fights with Juggernaut. Even on a shorter fight where Juggernaut is not a factor, removing the line in which Rampage is used with prior to 100 rage when not enraged results in ~100 dps loss with Frothing Berserker as FB uptime is reduced from 50->30% and Enrage uptime is increased from 60-64% (with this profiles sample gear, ymmv). A fairly trivial amount given the overall output.

2a. The SimC profile does refresh Frenzy, you can find the line following cooldown use. In my tests frenzy never falls and maintains a 99% uptime (<100 due to stacking at the start of the fight).
actions.single_target+=/furious_slash,if=talent.frenzy.enabled&(buff.frenzy.down|buff.frenzy.remains<=3)

2b. Bloodbath is not delayed for Battle Cry, but it does sync with Dragon Roar if talented. If not, it is variable based on the cooldown time remaining on Battle Cry. Keep in mind that due to Battle Cry being reduced by Helya's Wrath, it won't be able to be used on cooldown anymore.
actions+=/bloodbath,if=buff.dragon_roar.up|(!talent.dragon_roar.enabled&(buff.battle_cry.up|cooldown .battle_cry.remains>10))

If you're seeing different results, I suspect you're using an old APL. Near the start of Legion, someone changed (read: fucked up) the Fury APL around the same time Sample Profiles were created, and it's persisted longer than it should have. Regardless, I expect (hope) hotfixes will shake this up, so I'm not too worried about it for the moment. We'll be revisiting APLs and after assessing any (god damn better be some) changes next week.

- - - Updated - - -

thanks for the great work man. A couple of questions:
1) with the new findings, if frenzy worth picking over inner rage? we can set haste to 35% with gear and get 15% from skill and put remaning to mastery/crit. if our haste is good enough, we can use RB 3 times which is more than inner rage buff and can geranrate 10 more rage.
2) shouldn't the sims on simulationcraft.com be updated with the new findings? our DPS can go very very high since the diffrence very wide.

1. No.

2. Not really, the rotation/talent selection doesn't change, only the gearing, and even it doesn't have a marked influence on DPS. TLDR: Fury is still shit. That said, those rankings will be obsolete in a week anyway (we hope), at which time there can be a complete reassessment.

[Deleted]

Im using 2 pure stats trinkets atm. One with 850ilvl str/haste and other with 840ilvl str/crit. I have faulty countermeasure and terrorbound nexus (both 840ilvl) in my bag. Should i switch? Terrorbound didnt proc that much on dummy. I donno maybe i was just unlucky.

Any thoughs?

[Deleted]

Im using 2 pure stats trinkets atm. One with 850ilvl str/haste and other with 840ilvl str/crit. I have faulty countermeasure and terrorbound nexus (both 840ilvl) in my bag. Should i switch? Terrorbound didnt proc that much on dummy. I donno maybe i was just unlucky.

Any thoughs?

str/has and countermeasure imo

[Deleted]

Why does this guide saya that Rage of the Valarjar is triggerd by Rampage/RB?
when the spell itself say Rampage/execute?

[Archimtiros]

Why does this guide saya that Rage of the Valarjar is triggerd by Rampage/RB?
when the spell itself say Rampage/execute?

This isn't a guide, so I'm not sure what you're referring to. That said, if something does say so, it's probably a simple typo.

[Deleted]

This isn't a guide, so I'm not sure what you're referring to. That said, if something does say so, it's probably a simple typo.

Forgot to link it.

http://www.wowhead.com/guides/classe.../fury/artifact
Rage of the Valarjar is fairly straightforward, the increased attack speed hastens auto-attacks and the increased crit chance helps Bloodthirst more reliably proc Enrage. The ability has a 10% chance to proc from Rampage or Raging Blow casts

[floffo]

Used some of the thoughts and hard work to get me a solid rankings on warcraftlogs.

So do hope you put your thoughts to "paper" and keep this up.

[Moophisto]

So with the upcoming buffs to Fury (and whirlwind not being buffed in that pass), I'd say wrecking ball 100 percent falls behind Avatar in single target situations, correct? and with that in mind, when I sim on the newest beta build of Sim C, if I take avatar I am showing mastery pulls ahead of haste past about 20 percent haste. Have you seen the same, Archimitros or anyone else?

[Archimtiros]

Forgot to link it.

http://www.wowhead.com/guides/classe.../fury/artifact
Rage of the Valarjar is fairly straightforward, the increased attack speed hastens auto-attacks and the increased crit chance helps Bloodthirst more reliably proc Enrage. The ability has a 10% chance to proc from Rampage or Raging Blow casts

I know what you were referring to; my question is why you posted it in here, as this thread is not affiliated with any of the written guides. If you find a typo, there are comment sections on those individual websites.

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So with the upcoming buffs to Fury (and whirlwind not being buffed in that pass), I'd say wrecking ball 100 percent falls behind Avatar in single target situations, correct? and with that in mind, when I sim on the newest beta build of Sim C, if I take avatar I am showing mastery pulls ahead of haste past about 20 percent haste. Have you seen the same, Archimitros or anyone else?

The hotfixes didn't do a damn thing for Fury, the only thing it was meant to do is make up for the potion nerf, leaving Fury in exactly the same place it was before, which is a terrible one.

That said, yes, it would make Avatar very slightly better than it was, since WW damage was not buffed, however Avatar was already ahead of Wrecking Ball in any practical raiding situation, so nothing changed in that regard.

[Deleted]

are those stat weights and sims correct ATM ? and i am thinkin about go hard on fury with mythic xavius and cenarius ahead of me, got 21 traits and about 870 ilvl 23%crit/27%haste/27%mastery/5%versta/28k STR. no idea about better specs on those bosses.

[Rukitax]

Hi Archi ! thanks a lot for your work! I'm new as fury warrior, I was always prot.

I have some questions I would like you to answer

1) how can i climb to 45% haste, with the poor loot in EN. Can I get in dungeons?
2) in your opinion, for raiding is it better massacre than carnage? , Wrecking ball than avatar ?
3) which refers to rotation in 20% I am rotating between BT, Excecute And when I have Massacre proc I add rampage, on occasion I tried bt, rb and Excecute but when it appears rampage free for massacre lose juggernaut stack. then in your opinion, how do you do to maintain a good dps all the time?

anyways thank a lot ! sorry i'm noob about fury spec.

regards.

[Archimtiros]

Hi Archi ! thanks a lot for your work! I'm new as fury warrior, I was always prot.

I have some questions I would like you to answer

1) how can i climb to 45% haste, with the poor loot in EN. Can I get in dungeons?
2) in your opinion, for raiding is it better massacre than carnage? , Wrecking ball than avatar ?
3) which refers to rotation in 20% I am rotating between BT, Excecute And when I have Massacre proc I add rampage, on occasion I tried bt, rb and Excecute but when it appears rampage free for massacre lose juggernaut stack. then in your opinion, how do you do to maintain a good dps all the time?

anyways thank a lot ! sorry i'm noob about fury spec.

regards.

1) Don't worry about the Haste percentage. More Haste is better until 50%, that doesn't mean you always need more Haste. I'm only around 25% unbuffed because higher ilvl pieces, even without Haste, take generally take priority.

2) Massacre is better with Juggernaut, though there are a couple fights which Carnage could be used for I honestly can't be bothered to switch. Avatar is about always better than WB for raid content.

3) If you're using Massacre with Juggernaut all you really care about is pressing Execute and Rampage. If you're getting a lot of crits and a high Enrage uptime, you can chain Execute - Massacre, if not you'll need to use RB (inside Enrage) to help maintain rage levels, and possibly even Bloodthirst (save for when nothing else is available). Just be cognizant of your rage levels and make sure that you don't dip so low that 1 BT can't put you high enough to use Execute and maintain Juggernaut. If that's happening, you're probably Executing too much.
TLDR: If you're maintaining Enrage you can probably afford to use Execute twice per Massacre without RB/BT. If you're not, you'll need to weave in RB to maintain rage. Save BT as a backup.

I know that (#3) isn't a very specific answer, but I haven't been able to lock down a hard and fast rule except "watch your rage". In sims, using RB during Enrage produces the best numbers by a small amount, but in a real encounter where you want to push extra damage before the target dies, stacking up Execute before you or the target dies will result in better actual damage. It's just something you have to stay aware of and plan out in relation of the fight.

[DesMephisto]

Hey thanks for all of this, I've gotten a lot of legendary/90th percentile rankings in normal/heroic emerald nightmare thanks to the stat distribution. I've found that focusing on haste over everything has actually worked really well for me. But that is also because I"m using the jeweled signet. At this point, I have to focus on haste because of how my gear works, which is definitely an interesting and more dynamic loot aspect.

[Epialt]

Quick question:
Basic trinket +1000str +1000haste vs Ursoc's Rending paw ilvl880 ( 1600+ str ) - stats with basic trink are: C:18%, H:37%, M:30%
Can't stop thinking about it and I'm @w ork so I can't sim it ). Help me get back to work!