Why all of the hate for RNG oriented play in HS?

[Pantalaimon]

No, I'm not kidding. Hearthstone was not intended for strong customizable gameplay that involves deep and drawn out plays or mechanics all of the time like other card games. HS doens't allow you to cycle through specific cards in your deck, graveyard/discard/removed from play pile, was not meant to allow players to specifically interact with choosing cards in the opponent's hand to affect. In general the game was meant to be affected by some player choice, but the smaller deck & hand size, along with massively simpler mechanics compared to Magic, Yu-Gi-Oh, etc implies that a somewhat based rng playstyle was pretty much intended for HS from the start.

So I ask again, why do people hate it so much in HS?

Bear in mind other competitive card games still have their own elements/degrees of rng based play as well so please let's refrain from scapegoating HS as some unique outlier.

[Usagi Senshi]

Dunno, RNG is part of CCGs and RPGs as well. People just like to bitch and moan about petty shit when they're down is all.

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

Because it's easier to blame something outside of your control than it is to try and improve yourself.

[YuneKirby]

Because it's easier to blame something outside of your control than it is to try and improve yourself.

I agree with this. Mostly people thinking that they're better than everyone else with a flawless strategy. So when they lose they immediately claim it was bad RNG that led to their downfall.

[Nikkaszal]

People get super pissy when a lucky Yogg/KJ/Sylv/Rag etc loses them one game every thirty.

[Twoddle]

Some people want the tournament scene to be where you see the same familiar players do well. More RNG does not help to achieve that and we end up watching no-names duke it out in the final stages and no one gives a shit because everything will be decided by RNG anyway.

[McNeil]

Because nothing is more frustrating than losing a game due to same insane RNG, like Rag hitting your hero with 8 hp or lower while you have 7 minions on the board. Or an opponents Yogg only benefitting himself with stuff like Call if the Wild, Pyroblast to the enemy face etc. These are examples of some huge RNG risks though, I don't mind the smaller RNG like Flame Juggler hitting a 1 hp minion on turn 1 instead of hitting face. But its just way more frustrating to lose in my first examples.

[Deleted]

Because it's easier to blame something outside of your control than it is to try and improve yourself.

What he said.

[PPN]

Because it's easier to blame something outside of your control than it is to try and improve yourself.

And the same ppl, on the other side abuse the shit out of the emote system to give you the impression they got mad skills once the luck is on their side.

Im not sure if its funny or sad when i take those 2 arguments about people behaviour together....

[Deleted]

Because it's easier to blame something outside of your control than it is to try and improve yourself.

Tell me friend. How can you improve yourself to play around yog saron? Because that is the type of cancerous RNG that people are hating on. Not top decking or card draw. That's normal in every card game. But yog saron winning you the game out of your ass while your opponent can potentially do nothing about it is absolute bullshit.

- - - Updated - - -

Because nothing is more frustrating than losing a game due to same insane RNG, like Rag hitting your hero with 8 hp or lower while you have 7 minions on the board. Or an opponents Yogg only benefitting himself with stuff like Call if the Wild, Pyroblast to the enemy face etc. These are examples of some huge RNG risks though, I don't mind the smaller RNG like Flame Juggler hitting a 1 hp minion on turn 1 instead of hitting face. But its just way more frustrating to lose in my first examples.

Yog is not a huge RNG risk though which makes it even more cancer. Considering the spells are cast from your side, a lot of skills will benefit you by default such as every portal, even "own side" cast spell card like call of the wild etc etc. I do not know why yog is allowed to be played in competitive or ranked for that matter.

[Spray]

For as long as the competitive scene in HS is around, I've been using the following argument against "LOL HEARTHSTONE ESPORT RNG FEST HAHA" people:

If Hearthstone games are decided primarily by RNG, why some players appear on top of the ladder consistently over those past two years? Lifecoach, Kolento, Firebat, Reynad, Strifecro, just to name the few. Wouldn't that be too much of a coincidence? (that's a rhetorical, kinda condescending question tbh)

Yeah, obviously we see new faces every event, but that happens in pretty much any other sport. The reason those people remain at the top is because they truly belong among the best players in the world. They can come up with original variations of decks, or even whole new decks and win tournaments with those. Those aren't just people who play a lot and get lucky with Ragnaros.

[StrawberryZebra]

Because it's easier to blame something outside of your control than it is to try and improve yourself.

What this overlooks is that the more randomness a game has the more opportunity it provides for the better players to lose.The issue I have with this is with improving yourself to avoid being beaten by bad RNG. Cards with extreme variance can swing the game with very little extra input from either player and that just feels horrible when it happens to you.

Like the other day, when I had a Mage play a Spellslinger and hand me a Pyroblast from it. There was no way he could have known about it, how could he its not a card Warriors typically have access to, and nothing he could do to prepare for it. It won me the game a few turns later. I even admit it - I pulled an undeserved complete bullshit win out of my arse because I got lucky with RNG. On the other hand, I could have just as easilly gotten something completely worthless from it like Purify. There's just no way to play around that sort of extreme randomness other than just not playing cards with any RNG elements to them at all.

On the other hand there are lots more examples of good RNG cards like Arcane Missiles or the Mad Bomber for instance. They have a gaurenteed damage component with a random split to it. You can either try get it to hit the targets you want by removing other threats first, or you can see what they hit and follow up accordingly. It allows the player to express a level of skill in how they choose to use it and in how they choose to respond to the randomness rather than dictating the course of a game alone.

[Pantalaimon]

What this overlooks is that the more randomness a game has the more opportunity it provides for the better players to lose.The issue I have with this is with improving yourself to avoid being beaten by bad RNG. Cards with extreme variance can swing the game with very little extra input from either player and that just feels horrible when it happens to you.

Like the other day, when I had a Mage play a Spellslinger and hand me a Pyroblast from it. There was no way he could have known about it, how could he its not a card Warriors typically have access to, and nothing he could do to prepare for it. It won me the game a few turns later. I even admit it - I pulled an undeserved complete bullshit win out of my arse because I got lucky with RNG. On the other hand, I could have just as easilly gotten something completely worthless from it like Purify. There's just no way to play around that sort of extreme randomness other than just not playing cards with any RNG elements to them at all.

On the other hand there are lots more examples of good RNG cards like Arcane Missiles or the Mad Bomber for instance. They have a gaurenteed damage component with a random split to it. You can either try get it to hit the targets you want by removing other threats first, or you can see what they hit and follow up accordingly. It allows the player to express a level of skill in how they choose to use it and in how they choose to respond to the randomness rather than dictating the course of a game alone.

The thing is though is that you'll still get players who do complain heavily about "good rng". Look at all of the players who say that HS is bullshit for their opponent's Rag or Knife Juggler hitting face for lethal despite a big board. It seems to me that the underlying feeling is too many players want HS to turn into a game that garuntees them the win if they have won the board control game & don't like random effects that take that feeling away from them.

[Deleted]

And the same ppl, on the other side abuse the shit out of the emote system to give you the impression they got mad skills once the luck is on their side.

Which is precisely why the game has squelch, so you don't need to listen to apes monkeying around.

[PPN]

If Hearthstone games are decided primarily by RNG, why some players appear on top of the ladder consistently over those past two years? Lifecoach, Kolento, Firebat, Reynad, Strifecro, just to name the few. Wouldn't that be too much of a coincidence? (that's a rhetorical, kinda condescending question tbh)

They are for sure players who have a concept and Play strategicaly strong....but, i imagine they also do nothing else, or at least they invest a shitload of time in the game.

The season when i had my best rank, i easily also spent the most time playing. Im not saying i could reach what they even if i spent the time they do with HS (even we will never find out), but ist for sure a Major factor.

[Deleted]

They are for sure players who have a concept and Play strategicaly strong....but, i imagine they also do nothing else, or at least they invest a shitload of time in the game.

So? That's true for every game and sport, ever; the people who play the most also happen to be the best at it, or do you conceive yourself playing once a week and still make it to grandmaster in SC2?

[StrawberryZebra]

The thing is though is that you'll still get players who do complain heavily about "good rng". Look at all of the players who say that HS is bullshit for their opponent's Rag or Knife Juggler hitting face for lethal despite a big board. It seems to me that the underlying feeling is too many players want HS to turn into a game that garuntees them the win if they have won the board control game & don't like random effects that take that feeling away from them.

With a board of 7 minions, and your face of course, the chance of getting a hit from these things is 12.5%. As chance goes, thats not insignificant at all. The chance of being repeatedly hit in the face, assuming the board size stays the same, drops massively after the first hit however and I can easilly understand why a player who got all 3 Arcane Missiles in the face being upset that they lost due to a 0.002% chance just happening to pop up in their game.

Lets look at it another way though, you have an 87.5% chance of winning the game when the board is in that state. Your bias tells you that you should be winning this one and when that 12.5% chance of you losing crops up it feels absolutely awful. You were playing much better than your opponent in every measurable way and you had victory stolen from you. It's easy to understand why people get salty about it happening.

In either case, if they do happen the fact that you could do nothing to prevent it and lost entirely at the whim of a dice roll is what really frustrates people. That loss of control over winning and losing hits hard.

[Twoddle]

With a board of 7 minions, and your face of course, the chance of getting a hit from these things is 12.5%. As chance goes, thats not insignificant at all. The chance of being repeatedly hit in the face, assuming the board size stays the same, drops massively after the first hit however and I can easilly understand why a player who got all 3 Arcane Missiles in the face being upset that they lost due to a 0.002% chance just happening to pop up in their game.

Lets look at it another way though, you have an 87.5% chance of winning the game when the board is in that state. Your bias tells you that you should be winning this one and when that 12.5% chance of you losing crops up it feels absolutely awful. You were playing much better than your opponent in every measurable way and you had victory stolen from you. It's easy to understand why people get salty about it happening.

In either case, if they do happen the fact that you could do nothing to prevent it and lost entirely at the whim of a dice roll is what really frustrates people. That loss of control over winning and losing hits hard.

The point is that as a good player you should be making the most optimal plays at every stage. In the above example you did your best to only give the opponent only a 12.5% chance to win. That's good odds which you should take every single time so that you come out ahead in the long run. You will win that game 7 times out of 8. I'm sure every game you ever won you had no luck go your way (yeah right). Let the luck take care of itself and stop moaning.

In the case of Yogg there's very little a good player can do to play around it or improve your odds against it, it's totally different, that's what people complain about.

[dacoolist]

It's not always RNG either, and some people just complain about everything. Don't get me wrong, some things are always going to be OP - but some people just can't make a deck to save themselves haha

[Twoddle]

It's not always RNG either, and some people just complain about everything. Don't get me wrong, some things are always going to be OP - but some people just can't make a deck to save themselves haha

To be fair deck building is the hardest part of Hearthstone especially for casuals. Your best bet is to copy netdecks and tweak them.