Holy talents for tommorow

[Cuzzin]

So I want to get as much Aoe healing as possible and I was curious what talent setup you guys will be going. Here is what I have in mind plz comment and critique.

Lvl 15: Enlightenment

Lvl 60: Light of the Naaru..I am really hoping we do not need Symbol of hope but will go if need be.

Lvl 75: Obviously not Surge. I was thinking all along Piety but then tonight as I was looking Bind heal might not be that bad looking at the cooldown for both holy words. How do you guys feel about that?

Lvl 90: Divinity just because I dont need another spell to press but 15% healing is always welcome in my book.

Lvl 100: This is where I am at a toss up the most. I have been using Apotheosis since release but I feel like maybe that's because we havent been in raids yet and it was clearly better for THEN. But in raid environment should I use one of the others?

[Deleted]

15: Enlightenment (or Trail, gotta love the synergy with Surge)
30: Feathers
45: Afterlife
60: Symbol, swapping back to LotN if no one actually needs the mana
75: Surge
90: Divinity
100: Apotheosis, CoH for heavy movement obviously

[Mazeari]

It needs a bit of playing around, but the one I will start with for each boss, and will liekly keep is:

15: Enduring renewal
30: Feather
45: Afterlife
60: Light of the naaru
75: Binding heal
90: divinity (most subject to change)
100: Benediction

[Deleted]

Personally i dont think SoL is a viable option. I have played with binding heal since realease and its great.
The few times i tested SoL the procs were way to less imo.

[Dawon]

It needs a bit of playing around, but the one I will start with for each boss, and will liekly keep is:

15: Enduring renewal
30: Feather
45: Afterlife
60: Light of the naaru
75: Binding heal
90: divinity (most subject to change)
100: Benediction

I would love to have Benediction and synergy with the artifact talents for PoM and such... but it just feels like PoM is shitty so despite how much I like it, it feels useless... dont you have the same feeling?

[Deleted]

15: ToL or Enlightenment depending on mana (coupled with 75)
30: Feather
45: Afterlife
60: LotN until I see there is a reason to use SoH
75: SoL (with ToL) or BH (with Enlightenment)
90: Divinity
100: CoH... because CoH guys come on

This is what I'll be walking in with.

I think I'm either going 1) ToL/LotN/SoL or 2) Enlightenment/(SoH or LotN)/BH, depending on fights or depending on which works best in general. I think those are the two best builds for Holy in terms of internal synergy. I'm not even considering the Renew build at the moment and although I hope it proves to be effective, in which case I will tweak some stuff to make it work for me, I don't believe it for a second.

Also I should be using Apotheosis, at least in build 1 on certain fights... I just can't be bothered to learn actual burst healing when I've been CoHing for the past 8 years. I will if it's absolutely necessary.

[Vampiregenesis]

Apotheosis + flash i imagine but i didnt read all bosses yet , binding + renew is not out of the question though.

[Alorithin]

Be careful with enlightenment. Mana returns don't mean anything if people get trucked by flubbing mechanics.
Giving up LotN isn't worth it.
Apotheosis sanctify/poh is tranq lite. Divine Hymn without double healing procs and artifact Pom is a wet noodle.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

15: Enlightment/Tol
30: Feather
45: Afterlife
60: Naaru
75: SoL 90% of the time, but binding heal could be ok.
90: Divinity
100: Apotheosis, and CoH for anyfight with a lot of movement.

I dont see us diverging from this build for some time.

[Hodag]

Also I should be using Apotheosis, at least in build 1 on certain fights... I just can't be bothered to learn actual burst healing when I've been CoHing for the past 8 years. I will if it's absolutely necessary.

I highly recommend learning Apotheosis. Serenity to proc divinity (+15%) into a Sanctify (refresh divinity) into +20% Prayer of Healings right into another Sanctify. It's a metric **** ton of healing. The best part is still feeling like you're doing it, and not just a single raid heal ez button like Tranq or Divine.

[VigilantRose]

I would love to have Benediction and synergy with the artifact talents for PoM and such... but it just feels like PoM is shitty so despite how much I like it, it feels useless... dont you have the same feeling?

Prayer of Mending is one of the most efficient spells Holy gets (short of the Holy Words). Benediction also upgrades Prayer of Mending a lot more than than Circle of Healing upgrades Prayer of Healing. Say Your Prayers is also one of the best traits on the artifact.

I think the reason it 'seems' useless is that what it does is fairly imperceptible. It's a lot of small, unnoticeable heals that add up to an incredibly potent amount of healing for the time/mana.

[Dawon]

Prayer of Mending is one of the most efficient spells Holy gets (short of the Holy Words). Benediction also upgrades Prayer of Mending a lot more than than Circle of Healing upgrades Prayer of Healing. Say Your Prayers is also one of the best traits on the artifact.

I think the reason it 'seems' useless is that what it does is fairly imperceptible. It's a lot of small, unnoticeable heals that add up to an incredibly potent amount of healing for the time/mana.

So you think it will be competitive to run a PoM/Renew-kinda build? Hmm, I'm not convinced but will need more testing. Would be interesting to grab everything that buff these two heals (as they have some talents/traits in common/synergy) and see how it performs... Need numbers tho, lots and lots of numbers!

[Mazeari]

I would love to have Benediction and synergy with the artifact talents for PoM and such... but it just feels like PoM is shitty so despite how much I like it, it feels useless... dont you have the same feeling?

Pom is something you should use on cd imo, even without any traits. Combined with the traits it will have roughly 7 charges. It will make resetting the extre renew with binding heal so easy, when you have more then half the raid covered. And if it already targets a renewed person it has a chance to reset the duration + give a heal with the perk (which I'm still 2 points away from)

Now add the +6 sec legendary, which I don't have. And you bascially blanket the whole raid in renews. Guess we will have to see.
Coh is not worth the little extra heal it gives, + if you inted to use it on cd it is very mana intensive.
Apotheosis is really amazing in dungeons. But I think it's on the slow side compared to say hymn, or sl. It also requires some mana burn. I'm feeling extremely comortable running benediction. Or else maybe in those rare occasions apotheosis. I wouldn't touch circle of healing ever.

Not to mention the synergy with divine hymn

[Zulesh]

Based on last nights testing ill still be running with the below

Trail of Light
Angelic Feather
Afterlife
Light of the Naaru
Surge of Light
Divinity
Benediction

Benediction is free healing and adds up to a good 5-8% of total healing, without ever casting Renew. A must have since i have never needed CoH due to the buff on PoH.

Still waiting on the Legendary waist as that will just rip everything on AoE healing

[Talleh]

The only reason you should be using benediction is if you have a haste build, unlocked holy mending and have the renew pants, and a fight with *constant* damage.

Otherwise you should be sticking with Apo and *maybe* COH for heavy movement.

Myself personally will be running with;
Trail
Feathers/DP
Afterlife
LotN/Symbol
SoL
Divinity
Apo

[Swizzington]

I can't live without Apotheosis at this point. It's so fucking good.

So you think it will be competitive to run a PoM/Renew-kinda build? Hmm, I'm not convinced but will need more testing. Would be interesting to grab everything that buff these two heals (as they have some talents/traits in common/synergy) and see how it performs... Need numbers tho, lots and lots of numbers!

Renew sucks too much balls.

[Anastacy]

I've been using Benediction for Dragons and Cenarius, Apotheosis for all other fights.

[VigilantRose]

So you think it will be competitive to run a PoM/Renew-kinda build? Hmm, I'm not convinced but will need more testing. Would be interesting to grab everything that buff these two heals (as they have some talents/traits in common/synergy) and see how it performs... Need numbers tho, lots and lots of numbers!

I don't believe you should run any kind of 'Renew build'. What I'm pointing out is that Benediction is almost strictly better than Circle of Healing - it generates a significantly greater amount of surplus healing at a much lower cost. You don't need other talents or gearing to augment it - the talent just stands alone as a great talent.

The question is how it stacks up against Apotheosis. Personally, I find Apotheosis just doesn't 'fit' for most content. It's absolutely the best talent for dps purposes, but that's not usually the issue. For Serenity/Sanctify, I end up wondering "how often do I need to cast these spells slightly more often?" - and the answer is usually "not often". If Prayer of Mending is actually bouncing, it outperforms Apotheosis/Serenity in terms of healing/efficiency. Apotheosis/Sanctify can potentially be better, but by the time you start really benefitting from Apotheosis the problem you're trying to address is generally over and you're back into low output healing mode. So you really need to find 30 sec periods of sustained AE damage (which do exist) and have them be prevalent enough to overcome Benediction's basic advantage.

[Dawon]

I don't believe you should run any kind of 'Renew build'. What I'm pointing out is that Benediction is almost strictly better than Circle of Healing - it generates a significantly greater amount of surplus healing at a much lower cost. You don't need other talents or gearing to augment it - the talent just stands alone as a great talent.

The question is how it stacks up against Apotheosis. Personally, I find Apotheosis just doesn't 'fit' for most content. It's absolutely the best talent for dps purposes, but that's not usually the issue. For Serenity/Sanctify, I end up wondering "how often do I need to cast these spells slightly more often?" - and the answer is usually "not often". If Prayer of Mending is actually bouncing, it outperforms Apotheosis/Serenity in terms of healing/efficiency. Apotheosis/Sanctify can potentially be better, but by the time you start really benefitting from Apotheosis the problem you're trying to address is generally over and you're back into low output healing mode. So you really need to find 30 sec periods of sustained AE damage (which do exist) and have them be prevalent enough to overcome Benediction's basic advantage.

Yes, however with the renew-part I mean how much use we'd get out of PoM in combination with SayYourPrayers and Holy Mending. The only way I feel Benediction overtake Apotheosis would be to grab those 2 traits and make the PoM spotheal extra as it will land on targets with renews most of the time. If incorporated with that Renew legendary (increases renew with 6 sec), extra heals when it bounces and 20% to keep the charge... maybe it will be decent enough to replace my "panic-apotheosis-button".

Anyway, I'm fond of both Renew and PoM but not quite in their new form.. I would want them a tad stronger to be convinced to go that way. CoH is an absolute no-no for me anyway, too expensive and I might as well just spam PoH and Holy Word in that case... a little CoH wont really make much difference... at least that's my feeling.

[VigilantRose]

Yes, however with the renew-part I mean how much use we'd get out of PoM in combination with SayYourPrayers and Holy Mending. The only way I feel Benediction overtake Apotheosis would be to grab those 2 traits and make the PoM spotheal extra as it will land on targets with renews most of the time. If incorporated with that Renew legendary (increases renew with 6 sec), extra heals when it bounces and 20% to keep the charge... maybe it will be decent enough to replace my "panic-apotheosis-button".

Prayer of Mending at base is 750% healing for 2% mana - which is extremely efficient. Say Your Prayers (which you will eventually take at some point) bumps that up to 937.5% healing. Benediction bumps that up to 1797% - on a 1.5 sec cast @ 2% mana. That's an enormous upgrade for a spell you should already be casting on cooldown (in a situation where bounces are likely).

Moreover, that casting occurs before damage happens. Holy has a ton of things it can do after damage occurs, but it really can't do much but stand around if there's no damage yet. So all that casting time before the damage hits is wasted anyway and Prayer of Mending is effectively 'free casting time'.

You also have to consider the impact on Divine Hymn. Every Prayer of Mending you have will generate about 1000% Spellpower of additional healing via Benediction under Divine Hymn.

I think the problem is that the impact of Benediction is so subtle that it doesn't 'feel' like its doing anything. But if you're relatively confident in the bouncing, it's actually doing a significant amount.