Rets, please - stop buff kings and wisdom in dungeons.

[Deleted]

It's literally a free spell, that you don't even have to use, and you people are complaining about someone buffing you with it. It may suck, but if I get a kings buff I'm not going to yell "YOU STUPID PALADIN WHY?"

It's litteraly not since the group/raid will loose 6% extra dps.
And for what? An insignficant absorb and maybe about 80% heal mana over the course of the entire damn dungeon?

It is not litteraly free , it is litteraly worthless compared to giving might to other people.

[Taeldorian]

You think so eh? Let's see what this Taeldorian-guy I saw post somewhere else has to say about that. "Worry about yourself" he says. I guess he disagrees with you.

In terms of making healers do damage, Id rather the dps worry about there own damage first. Thats just plain obvious. Worry about your own damage before you worry about the healers. Didnt feel like giving an in depth answer though, since it was a ridiculous thread. That thread was about making healers do damage, what I meant by my post was that he should worry about his own damage before criticizing the healer. Thats all. Just didnt say it completely because it was a retarded thread.

Either way, I dislike people like the one I quoted who only think of themselves in terms of damage. If you can make the group do better, then do so. Having 3 mights out is much better than 1 might and 2 kings or anything else, but the guy I quoted doesnt care about that, doesnt care about the rest of the group, because there his blessings. He can do what he wants with them, even if it means not allowing the group to be at its full potential.

The argument "They are MY blessings and I can do what I want with them. You should be glad Im even using them" is outright stupid, selfish, and just a terrible attitude to have.

[Droodid]

It's litteraly not since the group/raid will loose 6% extra dps.
And for what? An insignficant absorb and maybe about 80% heal mana over the course of the entire damn dungeon?

It is not litteraly free , it is litteraly worthless compared to giving might to other people.

It is still free. Like I said in a later post, paladins will know who to might when they're with an organized raid. Someone just rolling a pally and playing for no reason other than to play probably wont. But in a 5 man random dungeon, it really couldn't matter less. Things die exceptionally fast, that if you have might, you will not notice. In a raid, yes, it's useful and smart to use 3 mights instead and to might those who will do the most, because fights last longer than 30 seconds.

[Sigxy]

The argument "They are MY blessings and I can do what I want with them. You should be glad Im even using them" is outright stupid, selfish, and just a terrible attitude to have.

Which is why said person shouldn't even be ALLOWED to go do group activities in my opinion (As if Blizzard will care for a retribution paladin's opinion) if said person won't even do the group much good. Why is teamwork so hard to understand...?

[david0925]

This thread hurts my brain so hard.

I thought the message was Might> everything else because Kings and Wisdom suck, so buff 3 Mights instead of 1 of each because you can buff 3 Mights. How did so many other weird conversation pop up?

[Sigxy]

This thread hurts my brain so hard.

I thought the message was Might> everything else because Kings and Wisdom suck, so buff 3 Mights instead of 1 of each because you can buff 3 Mights. How did so many other weird conversation pop up?

I don't know... ;_:

[Deleted]

@Sigxy just buff me with might 3x as a shockadin I'll take care of it

[Vanderhuge]

It's a safe bet to say that 99% of us reading this forum are aware that 3x Might is the standard - the main issue is that you'll never get this message out to the vast majority of the community. MMO-C forums don't even scratch the surface of the game's overall community.

Look on the bright side - you won't complain about this when Greater Blessings are removed.

[SilenceRedo]

Blessings are MY damage. Of course I will always buff 3 might. That being said, it's a shitty desing I can't wait to see it gone.

[Deleted]

"Math is subjective".
No wonder there is so much hate on rets when this is the level they discuss on.

Are you quoting yourself here? You're free to find mathematics to be a subjective matter, but that is neither here nor there. It is irrelevant to the subjectivity of significance or insignificance of BoM > BoK > BoK.

What cost?
Yes, you're better off playing an Arms warrior.
Are you telling me that rerolling a class is just as easy as PICKING THE CORRECT BLESSING?
And I'd rather have any random class over some dumb ret that doesn't even know who or what to buff.

One might argue that the investment to re-roll to an Arms Warrior is insignificant.

And how exactly is Wisdom better?
By extending the duration of the fight you are causing me to lose more mana. Wisdom is so shitty it doesn't cover that gap.
But I see you are actually defending this.

I've seen BoW ease a struggling healer on more than one occasion. I'm able to play far more offensively with BoW on my Druid; allowing me to do more damage because I can spend less time healing by using less mana efficient heals.

Next time I will save this mana by not healing the retridin, got it!

Okay.

[Lucetia]

Wether they toss kings on the tank and wisdom on the healer and might on themselves...
Or noticing that I've got my Might on them and they only use kings and wisdom on themselves... thus leaving one blessing unused. . . ("Don't worry, I've done all mythics." they say.)

I've end up in several dungeons with another Retribution paladin and no matter how much I try to explain that a 40K absorb every 6 seconds and a 1% Health/Mana regen every 15 seconds are just not worth it, it's -impossible- to convince them. Unless Blizzard buffs those two Greater Blessings, please, don't be a burden on the rest of the dungeon group. ;_:

Thank you~

I might be misunderstanding your complaint. If you Might yourself and one other dps, they use might on themselves, then why wouldn't you and then want to put a wisdom/kings on tank and wisdom on healer? That leaves all 3 might's up and 1 Kings and 2 Wisdoms thus using all 6. Or even Kings/Might on tank instead of wisdom. You can only have one might up on any given player. (By this I mean you can have multiple on, but you only get the effect of one)

[Sigxy]

I might be misunderstanding your complaint. If you Might yourself and one other dps, they use might on themselves, then why wouldn't you and then want to put a wisdom/kings on tank and wisdom on healer? That leaves all 3 might's up and 1 Kings and 2 Wisdoms thus using all 6. Or even Kings/Might on tank instead of wisdom. You can only have one might up on any given player. (By this I mean you can have multiple on, but you only get the effect of one)

Well, the thing is - as long as there's a dps that can be buffed with your Might, it is always going to be better than Kings on a tank or Wisdom on a healer. And because of that, if you have 2 Retribution paladins for example in a 5-man group (Normal or Mythic+15, it doesn't matter), those 3 DpS should have 2x Might each (thus '6x' Might). Reason? Both Mights can proc on your attack. And as CptKnusper said:

and the different might buffs can proc of other mights proccs.

So basically, unless I misunderstood something: while 2 Kings ends up with the effect of just 40,000ish + 40,000 absorb (with my item level that's the number at least), and while 2 Wisdom ends up with the effect of 1% MP/15 Sec + 1% MP/15 Sec... 2 Might can 'potentially' be more than just 2 procs on one attack, because those two procs ends up being attacks which can potentially proc Might on each.

I'm wording this pretty badly and it's getting messy but, say... You use an attack that deals 1 Million damage (Something I do with JV), a Might procs and deals 300,000 damage, then with an chance that a 2nd Might procs on that one to deal 100,000-ish damage. I dunno if the first Might proc can proc on the 2nd one but if it can, then there's a chance for another 30,000-ish damage to follow. Might not sound much but... ya know what? 30,000 ish damage proc is just BARELY absorbed through ONE GBoK.

If someone can make a shorter version of this which isn't just "Might > Rest", I think that might save the possible confusion I just made.

[Gurg]

I wouldn't if it wasn't for the fact that I've -never- met another Retribution paladin who blesses 3x Might. ;_; Maybe I'm just unlucky. Yes, free buffs are great - but why pick the WORST buffs of ANY class?

I stopped using Kings/Wisdom long time ago. Pretty much buffing tanks + 2 other DPSs with Might and leave it at that.
Its funny to see how our DPS goes trough the roof with Prot Warrior/2 Havoc DHs/Outlaw Rogues.

On the other side.. there are some people around that actually DEMAND Kings on tanks or Wisdom on Healers.
Those are actually ppl that are hitting my nerve as whenever i try to explain them that +10% on my DPS is far more beneficial than Shield that breaks with toothpick poke on tanks or Having Healer MP5 like one of basic mana potions that you start the game.

Im actually for their complete removal as mechanic behind it is something that was hardly ever used before (if ever used) and down right demotivating for new folks that want to try out paladin. Having your DPS depending on the performance of other people is.. well not right.
Since most damaging classes are melee leather DPSers which are pretty squishy in a raid fight they can die really fast really early, thus gimping your DPS for that pull. In a time where people are doing 300k at the start of the expansion, 11% of that is 33k, which is not a small thing at all. As this is just start of the expansion naturally the numbers will go up, thus those 11% will keep growing and having even more impact on our DPS.

[Kanegasi]

It's 11k mana every 15 seconds.
On a 2-3 minute fight that is 88 to 132k mana on a 1.1 million manapool.

It's like I said before: On most mythic runs I do not even go below 75%

The tooltip is actually wrong. Both the health and the mana proc every 3 seconds.

[Morally Grey Storm]

The tooltip is actually wrong. Both the health and the mana proc every 3 seconds.

it procs for 0.20% per 3 seconds, so still a 1% over 15 seconds.

[Deleted]

it procs for 0.20% per 3 seconds, so still a 1% over 15 seconds.

I'm pretty amazed there is so much backlash for a simple PSA: BoK and BoW are not worth using, use BoM instead. The thread should just be filled with people saying thanks for the headsup, or I already knew that, and perhaps a few debating the uselesness of BoK and BoW.

[Deleted]

So...

Using BoK on your tank prevents 400-600k damage to him during the fight. Tanks have 2-3m hp. So thats 1/6 maybe? That would be one or two boss hits.
BoW will restore about 8% of your healers mana assuming a 2m fight. That is about 1 extra heal.

Might gives you extra damage shaving off a few seconds off the fight duration, avoiding the hits the group woud take and the heals the healer would need to cast.

Overall? You help your group more by finishing the fight faster with Might. The other 2 blessings are useless. Even if all you gained was one boss hit avoided, it would already be worth it.

So yeah, if you want to help your group use might x3. The claims of selfishness over this are laughable at best. By using BoK or BoW you are actually hurting your group.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Yeah, well, that is subjective!

Everihtng is subejcitve, epsceially grammer!

[TheFirstOnes]

OP, let me do what I want with my buffs, KK?

You don't tell us rets how to play, you're not blizzard.
Go complain somewhere else, not like I care.

- - - Updated - - -

So...

Using BoK on your tank prevents 400-600k damage to him during the fight. Tanks have 2-3m hp. So thats 1/6 maybe? That would be one or two boss hits.
BoW will restore about 8% of your healers mana assuming a 2m fight. That is about 1 extra heal.

Might gives you extra damage shaving off a few seconds off the fight duration, avoiding the hits the group woud take and the heals the healer would need to cast.

Overall? You help your group more by finishing the fight faster with Might. The other 2 blessings are useless. Even if all you gained was one boss hit avoided, it would already be worth it.

So yeah, if you want to help your group use might x3. The claims of selfishness over this are laughable at best. By using BoK or BoW you are actually hurting your group.

Honestly, I just use ALL of my buffs in every dungeon, always succeeded that way anyway.

[rad586]

I was asked so many times in pug 5-man Mythics to cast BoK on tank / BoW on healer that by default I do that in all of them now.

Do you really think 3x BoM makes that much of a difference in finishing the 5-man ? Few seconds faster at most. The fights are too short for it to matter.