Day1 of raid - "know the fights" required

[twiddler]

What went wrong with this games community? How can we fix it?

There was a guy in my guild who I sure as hell knew was a basement dwelling leech IRL capable of leveling to 110 in 24 hours and gearing to mythics in another 24. He would chastise the PuG for not knowing anything during dungeons and question the relation of their ability in this game to what they do IRL, believing if you're a winner in this game, you're likely a winner in life.

To many, the only thing they'll ever accomplish is a video game. Accept it and move on.

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

1.) No you didn't. There was no "Heroic 10 Man" it was 10 Man or 25 Man with 25 Man as the "Heroic version" back in WotLK.

Also:


You got it only a few months before Cataclysm came out. Also when looking at your achievements, they all came within a few days of each other Ulduar, Sartharion, ICC, etc...

You didn't have to learn the fights at all, you were carried. You could have been AFK and gotten them looking at the time frame on everything.

It actually was 10 man normal, 10 man hc, 25 man normal and 25 man in ToC and ICC and Ruby Sanctum.

[Gungrir]

DBM will tell you everything you need to know.

[Cannibalus]

What went wrong with this games community? How can we fix it?

People these days want like-minded individuals in their raids. On day 1, when everyone is undergeared and inexperienced, it's only natural to consult the dungeon journal as to know what to expect (when to run with a debuff, to or away from players, any special mechanics etc). Looking up a video of the fight is even better.

If you want a single player experience, keep posting here on mmo-champ and don't actually play the game while you patiently wait for LFR. And even in the first week of LFR you might need to know tactics. Better off just do world quests... ye.

[ShiyoKozuki]

DBM will tell you everything you need to know.

I don't use DBM, it should be banned by Blizzard already. The devs constantly complain how it makes it harder for them to design bosses, why would they allow such a thing?

- - - Updated - - -

You are correct which only makes it worse that (s)he is entirely lying then:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ment#168:a4602

Why is achievement/armorying shitposting not a bannable offense?

Just stop. I'm beyond sick of it.

[Kikazz]

I'm gonna watch a walkthrough of zelda before I play it.

single player game, versus MMO that requires GROUP participation.

thats like comparing USD to Zimbabwe dollars and expecting an Equal exchange rate.

"You're wasting my time!" lol, to do what? AFK in org? Enjoy the damn journey.

also, wow is an MMO where you look at things to help each other, if you arent going to put the effort in to get ready for raids, you should stick to playing Zelda.

also your attitude comes off as someone who likes to wing everything, i bet your also one of those people who show up to raids with no food/flasks/pots

[Shaley]

I don't use DBM, it should be banned by Blizzard already. The devs constantly complain how it makes it harder for them to design bosses, why would they allow such a thing?

- - - Updated - - -


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ment#168:a4602

Why is achievement/armorying not a bannable offense?

Except the creator of DBM is friends with Blizz Devs. It's a challenge both ways. They try to outsmart him, he tries to outsmart them. Sometimes he crosses the line, and they disable parts of DBM like the tracking overlay. I'm sorry, but you're 100% wrong on this one. Blizzard is able to make the encounters they can, because DBM and BigWigs exists. Their fights are designed with the fact that you will have some knowledge that X happens when Y.

And what exactly do you mean, "Why is achievement/armorying not a bannable offense?" ? As in, if someone makes a claim, someone shouldn't be allowed to go look up and see how truthful you're being? Why would that be bannable? You can check someone's achievement's -in game-.

[Gungrir]

I don't use DBM, it should be banned by Blizzard already. The devs constantly complain how it makes it harder for them to design bosses, why would they allow such a thing?

I am pretty sure they wanted to nerf DBM not sure if it's already done or will be implemented in the future, so you won't have visual helpers on how to stand or spread out.

Most useful feature was having a timer that let's you pre pot but with the awful pots they gave you this time...

[THE Bigzoman]

I think you're just into unscripted encounters/fights.

in which case, you should probably play Terra.

[Fang7986]

Exactly. I don't see the issue in watching a Fatboss video and reading up on the dungeon journal.

except there is a big difference in watching a video of someone else doing the fight and actually doing the fight yourself

[ShiyoKozuki]

I use bigwigs with everything disabled just for pull timers.

[NFA]

The same reason you have to do a series of tests before you're allowed to get in a car and start driving. You're not the only one that's subject to your own failings.

[Fang7986]

Except the creator of DBM is friends with Blizz Devs. It's a challenge both ways. They try to outsmart him, he tries to outsmart them. Sometimes he crosses the line, and they disable parts of DBM like the tracking overlay. I'm sorry, but you're 100% wrong on this one. Blizzard is able to make the encounters they can, because DBM and BigWigs exists. Their fights are designed with the fact that you will have some knowledge that X happens when Y.

And what exactly do you mean, "Why is achievement/armorying not a bannable offense?" ? As in, if someone makes a claim, someone shouldn't be allowed to go look up and see how truthful you're being? Why would that be bannable? You can check someone's achievement's -in game-.

that's not DBM though everything DBM tells you is something that already happens in game DBM just presents it in huge screaming raid warnings instead of the cue's Blizz uses

[Eleccybubb]

except there is a big difference in watching a video of someone else doing the fight and actually doing the fight yourself

The video can still provide you with some guidance in how to handle the fight.

[Kikazz]

I am pretty sure they wanted to nerf DBM not sure if it's already done or will be implemented in the future, so you won't have visual helpers on how to stand or spread out.

Most useful feature was having a timer that let's you pre pot but with the awful pots they gave you this time...

nah they nerfed raid tools like Exorsus.
they didnt want addons telling x amount of people to stand there and x amount to stand in a different spot.

aka Exorsus raid tools Mythic Kormorok, told people where to stand for the puddle soaking.

blizzard doesnt want people to be able to preplan that much with the use of an addon, DBM does not do this.

[Orange Joe]

1.) No you didn't. There was no "Heroic 10 Man" it was 10 Man or 25 Man with 25 Man as the "Heroic version" back in WotLK.

Also:

Actually, for WotLK There were 10/25 normal AND 10/25 heroic modes

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Fall_o...ng_(10_player) = 10n
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Heroic...ng_(10_player) = 10h

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Fall_o...ng_(25_player) = 25n
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Heroic...ng_(25_player) =25h

[Shaley]

that's not DBM though everything DBM tells you is something that already happens in game DBM just presents it in huge screaming raid warnings instead of the cue's Blizz uses

DBM says "Static Nova, get to Sand!" "Focused Lightning, get to water!"

"Shattering Smash in 5 seconds" reminder. The game tells you as it happens, DBM gives you warnings. A fight like Blackhand Mythic would've been ridiculously, unnecessarily more complicated than it was had it not been for DBM or Big Wigs. They make fights with those mods in mind. They don't dislike MysticalOS by any stretch of anyone's imagination. He's an MVP on their forums, has personal contacts with devs, among other things. Blizzard doesn't "hate" DBM, that's absurd.

[Orange Joe]

Correct, I acknowledged that and it points out that the OP is actually lying about that, (s)he never cleared Heroic 10M ICC.

Yeah. I mean if they did it was toward the very end anyways. They were basically being carried.

[Gungrir]

nah they nerfed raid tools like Exorsus.
they didnt want addons telling x amount of people to stand there and x amount to stand in a different spot.

aka Exorsus raid tools Mythic Kormorok, told people where to stand for the puddle soaking.

blizzard doesnt want people to be able to preplan that much with the use of an addon, DBM does not do this.

This is a Quote from DeadlyBossmods.com


Blizzard just announced a decision to break UnitPosition in dungeons and raids in upcoming patch 7.1.
As a result of these changes, the follow DBM features will be removed or limited sometime soon:

DBM Arrow
DBM Radar/RangeFrame
DBM Hudmap
Position based warning filters (are you on mogu side or mantid? Boat or platform?)
Nearby Warnings (bad thing on playerName near you)

Arrow and Hudmap will be missed at high end but won't affect most average raiders (Also where I put majority of my effort for mythic raid mods). The radar being broken is going to affect everyone and make simple things like spreading out properly require a lot more geometry and annoyance. It'll be like the days of Gruul in BC where the only range finder DBM could give you was a text based one that was fixed to limited ranges using things like bandages or inspect. Blizzard seems to want that BC raiding style back. It's their game so it's their wishes. I merely need to mention I'm not stripping these features from DBM because I want to.

Just a real shame they knew about this in advance and decided only now to share it after the countless hours put into the above features for Legion. I went above and beyond with arrows and hudmap for Nightmare and Nighthold and even Mythic dungeons.

So much time wasted on features no one will ever get to see/enjoy, put into mods (especially Nighthold). I constantly read boss feedback threads and over and over and over again people said "x mechanic is hard to see please add arrows". Months later fight retested "still hard to see, why not add arrows". This was on multiple fights. Well I say on a good 2/3rd of Nighthold, DBM added arrows or some other kind of helper. Everywhere possible.
Now, the only question remains, do I remove them right away from Emerald Nightmare, so people can get "used to it" or leave them in so people can at least use and see these features for Emerald Nightmare (not nearly as fancy as Nighthold but present), only to have them taken away from them mid progression?

[Shaley]

This is a Quote from DeadlyBossmods.com


Blizzard just announced a decision to break UnitPosition in dungeons and raids in upcoming patch 7.1.
As a result of these changes, the follow DBM features will be removed or limited sometime soon:

DBM Arrow
DBM Radar/RangeFrame
DBM Hudmap
Position based warning filters (are you on mogu side or mantid? Boat or platform?)
Nearby Warnings (bad thing on playerName near you)

He's a little... "Forest from the trees" on the HudMap. I can assure you, very few will miss the HudMap. Even those in his guild when it was first introduced on Iron Maidens PTR strongly disliked it. It was distracting, and a lot turned it off. In the kill videos, his was the only one with it enabled.

The Radar frame I didn't know was being removed. That's actually very interesting that they would do that to me. I'm guessing this is a "limited" change, not a removed change.

Position Based is either way to me. It was nice to know, but I rarely needed individual, side specific timers for Mogu/Mantid side. Was a luxury.

Nearby Warnings need to go. They induce reliance on the mod itself, in my opinion. Sometimes it was very necessary, but we'll adapt.