Outlaw Rogues - thoughts after first raid night?

[Syleion]

I was surprised with so many Cleave heavy fights that Ass is beating outlaw so soundly, right now it's looking really strong and personally? The RtB RNG is incredibly frustrating so let me be the first to say f**k Outlaw

[neozz1]

I was surprised with so many Cleave heavy fights that Ass is beating outlaw so soundly, right now it's looking really strong and personally? The RtB RNG is incredibly frustrating so let me be the first to say f**k Outlaw

What are you looking at? Most of the top parses are Outlaw not Sin?

[Syleion]

What are you looking at? Most of the top parses are Outlaw not Sin?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#

[enragedgorilla]

It is unfortunate that outlaws scale very poorly and soon subtlety will overtake it in damage as we gear up.

Lets see, Next year is the next raid (ish) ...then I would figure a few months after that , another raid. So give or take 3/4 of a year THEN worry about it.
Also, You say scale when you really mean,"Top end full mythic Rogues" Joe AVG raider...wont see as big a difference.

Scaling is done with top numbers, it borks the "top spec" when you go down the list.

[neozz1]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#class=Rogue

How can they be so much different, I'm not sure how the stats are pulled on what you showed but Outlaw is literally almost every rogue in the top 10 for every boss.

EDIT
I figured it out, look at how many parses there are of Outlaw vs Sin, I'm assuming more people that went Sin know what they are doing (less FOTM) so Sin show's higher on that chart. If you know what you're doing, Outlaw will be top right now.

[Syleion]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#class=Rogue

How can they be so much different, I'm not sure how the stats are pulled on what you showed but Outlaw is literally almost every rogue in the top 10 for every boss.

EDIT
I figured it out, look at how many parses there are of Outlaw vs Sin, I'm assuming more people that went Sin know what they are doing (less FOTM) so Sin show's higher on that chart. If you know what you're doing, Outlaw will be top right now.

Yeah that's what I just figured out too. There's almost a 1 to 10 ratio of Sin to Outlaw so the people playing it actually know what they're doing, I think it's also that Sin is more consistent while outlaw has considerably lower lows and (as of right now) slightly higher highs.

[Egrace]

I felt that I did really well last night. I was top 3 DPS in 6 out of 7 attempts on Nythendra. It was also a load of fun. Even if assassination is showing some impressive numbers at the moment I'm enjoying outlaw a lot. I personally like the randomn aspect of the spec. I have always gone assassination in the past and I would hate to switch back. So unless they completely pull ahead in mythics I'll stick to outlaw. I can link logs if desired.

[Deleted]

pretty nice, weve done 6/7 HC tonight.
3 of the first 5 encounters i was #1 at outlaw rogue , only cenarius and urson an arms warrior ran ahead.

[braxx]

Yeah, watching 2 dots like an idiot is the definition of fun, also as some idiots tried to argue before, you are way more skilled.
The years of training preparation to keep your dumb eyeballs on 2 dots....

something tells me you haven't mastered the spec at all. It requires quite a bit of discipline.

[Deleted]

After raiding tonight, some things have become clear...

"Rng" is NOT going to dictate your DPS - While extremely streaks of bad luck do happen, it is possible to cancel that out by making informed decisions and keeping the right buffs. Holding onto TB to push AR for CotD and then switching once you've cut off the necessary amount is a good one. Holding solo-shark and not fishing for a 2-buff unless necessary is also a good one.
I managed to consistently stay top 1-5 in a 30 man raid in every single fight on single target, while I may have fallen down to 5-10 on some AoE fights/Add fights (Il'Gynoth in particular was a bit of a pain, but I was using GS as my lvl10 Talent, which is a mistake in most cases on that fight for me.) - Other rogues that were specced more appropriately for Aoe/Cleave and had different trinkets (Im using Statstick Agi/Vers and InfAlchStone) were topping on AoE fights. All Outlaw.

Our survivability is beyond superb. Pretty par for the course of being a Rogue - As it has always been.
Grappling Hook is only good occasionally. Lots of places in raids like to say "no path available"... =/

Knowing when to fish and when to actually DPS is the be-all and end-all of Outlaw. Our worst performing Rogue (out of five) is, incidentally, the guy who keeps whining about "constant bad RNG" and rerolls WAY TOO MUCH.
I play with some fairly competent (Or well, I believe them to be ) F-mages, MM-hunters and a feral druid, and Outlaw can easy hold its own, while having superior survivability to either of those specs - At least, that was my experience tonight.

About gear - Guys, we do not need to have versatility on everything. Outlaw's stats are, often, very close (with mastery actually falling behind haste now and then, depends a lot of your Relics), anything that has higher agility than what you are currently wearing is very, very often going to be an upgrade. SIM A LOT! I swear to god my stat-prios change daily as I get new gear.

The bottom line? Outlaw is fine - Great even. Sim a lot.

[Quru]

After doing a full clear of both normal and heroic, I think outlaw is slightly ahead of where it should be. At the moment, outlaw can shine in every scenario, which isnt necessarily a bad thing, but I believe that each spec should have its own strength's and weaknesses. The RNG gods were definitely in my favor the last couple days, as I had a few ideal scenario's where I rolled a 6. I could see Run Through getting about a 10% nerf, which would be outlaw more close to assassination. With that being said our shadow priests are whooping ass and it's very hard to compete with them even when getting very opportune rolls.

[Mibzo]

I had a blast raiding as Outlaw! I were around the 200k - but yeah RtB can get quiet frustrating.

[Keturno]

Theres still zero valid arguments. Just lazy kids that can't stand anything different than dot watch.
You would have pull some similar shit if sub was top dps spec.

I dont see much difference between watching 2 dots and 2 buffs. At the end of the day you're rolling the bones and spamming to abilities, like asassin is, just looking for different stuff

[Chasin]

As Outlaw rogue, I topped the DPS charters in my raidgroup yesterday. Not on all fights, had a tough time against Fire Mages. But we were constantly duelling for spot #1 or #2.

Outlaw is just loads of fun. I remember yesterday on Ursoc, I was standing behind 2nd with a minimal difference compared to our Fire mage who was on #1, I managed to roll 3 buffs in the end and beat him on the charters. Feelsgoodman

However I did have some bad luck in terms of having to reroll 6 times on the opener, but most of the time I use AR & Cotd to get to 2+ buffs quickly, it does however cost me some DPS; As well as rolling 6 buffs 2 times on trash lol.

But, anyhow it felt amazing. Also I'm loving the new raid, damn <3

[Dryzz]

I find that Sin is really good for first boss fight (with DoT he really shine on Hit an run boss).other boss we run Outlaw was performing better,i am the only rogue in my guild (surrounded by DH and Hunter) so i can't compare myself with other rogue.

[Deleted]

Only did normal,but outlaw seems super strong, and i actually enjoyed it. Im really bummed that the 875 trinket i got is worse than my old 830 one but that is not the specs fault!

The rng didnt seem to be a issue, and assa was super easy to beat!

[Kurtwood]

The bottom line? Outlaw is fine - Great even. Sim a lot.

What type of fight in simc is best to use?

[Deleted]

I figured it out, look at how many parses there are of Outlaw vs Sin, I'm assuming more people that went Sin know what they are doing (less FOTM) so Sin show's higher on that chart. If you know what you're doing, Outlaw will be top right now.

Or maybe it's just that since Outlaw is heavily rng oriented, Outlaw rogues with god-tier rolls will top the damage meter. A pool of 10 is too small to compare the results of the two specs.

[TnTizz]

What is the best opener atm in raids? MFD then RTB? or ambush saberslash RTB?

[Useful]

Gear scaling and the correct relics makes a massive massive difference.

And outlaw's main competition seems to be mages.

no.. another outlaw =) I loved my first raid yesterday. That badass trinket from Ursoc dropped and went to another rogue =)