EpiPen..... nobody beileves this, do they?

[Swizzington]

It takes a lot for Genn to weigh in on something.

Yeah it's not like he has thirty-one thousand posts or anything.

[Argarock]

Don't judge a book by its cover.

no, judge the book by it's 3 prequels who were all literally full of shit..
chances are the 4th one aint that much better.


also, it's not just epipens, everything health related in the US is horribly overpriced due to companies being allowed to price shit as much as they'd like (hyperbole)
because regulating that shit would be something the dirty commies would do..

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Funnily enough, them getting richer is what allows them to do more research and find new medicines that are better. Once again, watching the video instead of screeching like a child that Martin is insane, which I won't deny, he is, would have you all on the exact same page.

all these companies spend waaaay more on lobbying, commercials and bribing doctors than they do on research.

[breadisfunny]

it's facts created by falsehood.

the government should take hold of things like this, things vital to survival, and force companies to become part of the government and pass out the pen at free or negligible cost.

i agree with this 100%

[GarlicGuy]

Giving yourself a shot of Bydureon while presumably not experiencing a diabetic crises is not analogous to having to administer epinephrine intravenously while going into anaphylactic shock, as you hopefully know already...

No, but really, I have done both.... I used an epipen once..... never even found out what I was allergic to, but my hands swelled, and my family jewels itched like crazy for hours..... but both were super simple to use.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

You take a video of an even bigger scam artist to prove a point? Way funny.

Wouldn't that make him the authority on being a morally-bankrupt-but-within-the-law shitlord?

You don't get an Archaeologist to talk about the Economy.

[Felya]

Nobody pays that price anyway. Insurance covers most of it.

You pay for insurance. Procedure goes up in price? So does your insurance, even if you don't need the procedure. Absurd argument from the same person who claims social services are not free, because they come from taxes.

And since its a law that you must have insurance now, nobody should be complaining. I have a prescription for Nuvigil, and every time I go to CVS for a refill (90 pills) The cost is $1350.00, but I only pay $15 of it. Insurance picks up the rest.

This is where you usually complain about insurance cost.

Dont forget about marketing costs and kickbacks to doctors who prescribe it

Those do not apply here. What does apply, is places like blood centers and public schools that store those in case of emergency. Their choice is between rewriting major portions of SOP or pay the increased cost when current supply is out. I'm guessing that part if it is not free, because it comes from your taxes, instead of insurance?

[draykorinee]

And if you make a mistake with a syringe while using that adrenaline, you die.

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What are the risk of death of a Epipen versus the same stuff in a syringe? Assuming both fail.

Tbh it's mainly down to the device having little qwerks that people who don't use them regularly forget, pens are generally safer and quicker in most instances but like all devices are only as safe and quick as the user using it.
We recently removed a device that made insulin injections safer and went back to old school needles, the risk of needle stick injury didn't outweigh the risk of the patient not getting their insulin.
I have never used an epipen so it may be you're right and it's safer, in general though I'd say it's not as straight forward. Ill always prefer a needle and syringe

[Lochton]

Their CEO is going in front of Congress to explain the huge price increase for Epipens.

This was copied from a yahoo story:

In her testimony, Bresch says she understands there is considerable concern and skepticism about the pricing. She says some think the company makes $600 off each EpiPen, but that is not true.

She says the company makes about $50 per pen after rebates, fees, materials and other costs are subtracted.

wait, that is a huge price... Here we pay about 100 dollars.. EpiPens shouldn't be expensive, as they are an important part of some people's lives.

[Muzjhath]

Since this covers a lot of the matter quite thoroughly and in depth for as short a video it is. Both what it is and how it works. And how stupid the price hike is. While I haven't seen the other video linked on page one. I can't imagine a guy on the side of the price-hiking for no good reason will have anything good to say on the topic.

Mylan didn't even develop the Epi-Pen.

Follow up to the video above, from the same channel.

[Adam Jensen]

Money > Health

...Right?

Welcome to 'Murica. I find it funny that most conservatives call themselves Christian, but we all know who they really worship:

[Orlong]

There is a lot of problems when you start talking about the profitability of a drug for a whole number of reason.

Direct costs are easy enough to sort out -- cost of materials, labor, containers, etc. You can probably estimate a certain level of costs for sales, marketing, distribution...however it's all likely just split out among a portfolio of products, especially when you then add administrative and overhead costs, and costs related to fines, fees, licenses, registration maintenance, etc. etc.

And then on top of that you have to expect a certain level of profitability from the on-market products in order to support R&D work in the pipeline of new products -- an expensive venture that fails as often as it succeeds.

As long as you have a for-profit drug industry that is also responsible for drug development you will continue to see really strange pricing scenarios.

It would be nice if drug research went back into universities and hospitals and drug companies were more of the commercialization arm rather than doing the drug development. That would probably get prices more stable -- of course then the government and other private ventures would have to pick up the tab of the drug development costs.

And then since there is no longer a profit motive to get a new drug on the market, new drugs will come along much slower, and many will never be invented. We all know that the majority of government employees dont work very hard because they know they dont have to, nor is there an incentive to do so, and universities are full of young people with no experience who are just learning their trade. They dont have the knowledge or skill to invent new drugs yet

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it's facts created by falsehood.

the government should take hold of things like this, things vital to survival, and force companies to become part of the government and pass out the pen at free or negligible cost.

And those companies would say screw it and go out of business. They arent going to be making product for no money

[Orlong]

wait, that is a huge price... Here we pay about 100 dollars.. EpiPens shouldn't be expensive, as they are an important part of some people's lives.

And the company that makes Epipens offers a generic version for half the cost. $300 for a 2 pack, so they are only $150 per Epipen. Not much more than your $100. But people only focus on the name brand version necause God forbid you use a generic version.

http://newsroom.mylan.com/2016-08-29...-Brand-Product

[Lochton]

And the company that makes Epipens offers a generic version for half the cost. $300 for a 2 pack, so they are only $150 per Epipen. Not much more than your $100. But people only focus on the name brand version necause God forbid you use a generic version.

http://newsroom.mylan.com/2016-08-29...-Brand-Product

Ah, sorry, forgot to say, the 100 dollar one here, is 4 pens.

[Orlong]

And in France they're sold by pairs by a different company (Meda) at a price of $85, so about $42 for one... then they are at least 65% cheaper if you got a prescription, so in the worst case, you'll still pay less than $15 for one if a doctor can attest that you need it. I had some too, social security + work insurance were probably enough to cover it 100% or close to it, as I can't even remember paying for them, so the cost was probably close (or equal) to 0.

If a company can sell them at $42, their "only $50 benefit per pen" can only be bullshit, or they're really throwing their money away at some useless shit.

The company who makes Epipens (Mylan) did not invent them. They bought the rights to make them and so they need to recoup the cost of that purchase. Thats why the price increased

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Not sure his points are very great. He just hangs more overpriced services over people's heads.
$2000 for an ambulance ride? $20000 for an emergency room intervention?

Uh, those things only cost $15-50 over in my country. Does the US have some magical ambulances and nurses made out of gold and diamonds that makes everything 50 to 500 times more expensive?


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Insurance covers the majority of the cost for an ambulance ride and ER service. I would pay $50 total if I called an ambulance and I was checked into the ER. The reason the Ambulance costs are so high is because unless you live in a major city, most ambulance services are run by volunteers just like the fire companies and since a lot of people do not make donations to keep them running, they need to recoup the costs of providing the services

[Deleted]

She is actually correct. I know he is a meme at this point but Martin when on CBS to talk about it. She is telling the truth. It doesn't make this less scummy, but I understand why they did it. Martin also makes a great point in his commentary, would you rather spend the 300+ for the EpiPen or pay 2,000 for the Ambulance and EpiPen? As much as I hate the guy he makes great points.

In Belgium the EpiPen costs around €100 (full price, no medical reductions etc). Same ingredients, same content.

So you aren't going to tell me that anything above $200 is justified.

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The company who makes Epipens (Mylan) did not invent them. They bought the rights to make them and so they need to recoup the cost of that purchase. Thats why the price increased

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Insurance covers the majority of the cost for an ambulance ride and ER service. I would pay $50 total if I called an ambulance and I was checked into the ER. The reason the Ambulance costs are so high is because unless you live in a major city, most ambulance services are run by volunteers just like the fire companies and since a lot of people do not make donations to keep them running, they need to recoup the costs of providing the services

I don't see how an ambulance could ever spend 20k on an intervention, here it's 250 eur to use an ambulance and they don't live of donations either. Then again American wages are higher (yearly value, we're still much richer on average) than ours, but they aren't higher by a factor of a 80 either.

[Deleted]

She says the company makes about $50 per pen after rebates, fees, materials and other costs are subtracted.

100% true, they make 'bout eyeballing 400 dollaridoes per pen, but she has to get her part and demn nice and fatty stacks for the congress folk stabbing the free market and flagelating the fithy untermensch known as "citizen"

[Adam Jensen]

The company who makes Epipens (Mylan) did not invent them. They bought the rights to make them and so they need to recoup the cost of that purchase. Thats why the price increased

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Insurance covers the majority of the cost for an ambulance ride and ER service. I would pay $50 total if I called an ambulance and I was checked into the ER. The reason the Ambulance costs are so high is because unless you live in a major city, most ambulance services are run by volunteers just like the fire companies and since a lot of people do not make donations to keep them running, they need to recoup the costs of providing the services

So if they need to recoup the loss . . . why give their CEO a massive raise?

[derpkitteh]

And those companies would say screw it and go out of business. They arent going to be making product for no money

if they're part of the government, they're being paid in taxes. federal money.

[Machismo]

This is corporatism at its finest. It's exactly why the FDA needs to be scaled back dramatically. It it weren't for government intervention, then any company could sell EpiPens, but that's not what they want. They are in bed with the pharmaceutical industry, so blame them all.

[ati87]

The company who makes Epipens (Mylan) did not invent them. They bought the rights to make them and so they need to recoup the cost of that purchase. Thats why the price increased

Not really a justification though, its medicine and only reason why they can get away with this because the US political system has assholes like Trump that corrupt the system and then brag about it.

Also eventually you as a US tax payer pays for this shit, this is why per capita the US is a top spender for healthcare while getting nothing in return. If the US had the best healthcare maybe you could justify the cost but your not even that and the only thing you do is create a bigger wealth-gap between yourself and the 1%.

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This is corporatism at its finest. It's exactly why the FDA needs to be scaled back dramatically. It it weren't for government intervention, then any company could sell EpiPens, but that's not what they want. They are in bed with the pharmaceutical industry, so blame them all.

or you give them more teeth and not have obstructionist Republicans meddle with regulations so much and complain about un elected bureaucrats? Their is a reason why you have people in government that don't follow the whims of the masses

Regulators like FDA in the US often get to much restrictions (see what republicans have been trying to do with the consumer protection bureau) but while at the same time they also need to be really strict when it comes to stuff like medicine and food.