DPS Rankings after Day 1 of Emerald Nightmare

[Woobels]

I love how warriors managed to succcesfully 'sandbag' and get away with being this strong now.

Brilliant.

[kamuimac]

They're 20-30% below the top. WTF are you looking at?

comapring classes now is also idiotic due to artifacts not being complete - compare it when eveyrbody will be on 34th trait .

[clevin]

comapring classes now is also idiotic due to artifacts not being complete - compare it when eveyrbody will be on 34th trait .

No. That's foolish. "Here, spend MONTHS leveling your artifact and HOPE it makes you competitive." Not going to do that. They can and should adjust things as we go along. Otherwise ALL of that time is wasted - not only would I have to level another class I'd have to spend MORE months building out it's artifact tree.


Mind you, I DO get what you're saying - it's the new "You need to be max level to really judge your class/spec..." but the problem is 1) that's unfair and annoying to people who dont' farm AP as intensely as some and b) shit's gated anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

Not that much about where your bar is on the chart but more so about the size of it compared to other classes...i dont mind if my warlock specs are on the bottom of the chart, as long as the bar isnt 30% smaller...

Precisely. I'm 8% below the top? Meh, don't care. I can be competitive with a lot of classes simply by playing as well as I can. I'm 30% lower? I can't make up that kind of gap AND my class will cause people to deny me straight off. In raids, people who want to progress will tell the warlock player to level another class because if they can play, say, hunter or mage too why take the warlock character that contributes that much less DPS?


No one expects perfect balance. 30% differences are just untuned, though.

[Deleted]

OH LOOK 7/10 top classes are melee. Woooowww. Wheres the whole "don't worry about sims and dungeons, range dominate raids" crew now. LOL

I mean its not like ranged hasent had 10 years of dominace to the point where ranged was taken due to them taking less dmg or having to deal with less mechanics even if that said ranged spec would deal less dps ye so bad.

[Aggrophobic]

Do you not know how raids work and require x amount of ranged dps...? Are you incapable of reading a chart that shows ranged DPS generally being bottom DPS while melee DPS are top?

Like..what?

I see mage up there, hunter.
I see two melee in the bottom.

Balance is not perfect but ranged DPS still have a huge advantage over melee when it comes to raiding. Even more so once mythic is out.

[Deleted]

Not that much about where your bar is on the chart but more so about the size of it compared to other classes...i dont mind if my warlock specs are on the bottom of the chart, as long as the bar isnt 30% smaller...



Arcane and warlocks are different things...spec isnt the same as the whole class

That's exactly the point though. If there's a 10% difference between 7 classes, what do you think the difference between 24 classes would be...

[l33t]

I mean its not like ranged hasent had 10 years of dominace to the point where ranged was taken due to them taking less dmg or having to deal with less mechanics even if that said ranged spec would deal less dps ye so bad.

Lol, wat.

Since craptaclysm all the bosses are "melees tunnel boss and _occasionally_ move while ranged feel like they're being blessed by gods if they do not have to move every X seconds", and X parameter becomes lower with every new expansion. Not to mention that hit boxes of bosses and the bosses themselves become bigger and bigger with every expack... I do understand that skilled ranged maybe takes less damage than a skilled melee for obvious reasons, but thinking that ranged deal with less mechanics is just plain idiocy. Sorry to burst your bubble, but its ranged who execute boss mechanics while melees only rofltunnel.

Strictly on topic though, I find class balance in Legion awful. Blizzard should feel really ashamed of themselves, so much time balancing and such ridiculous results. Moreso, these results were called by numerous alpha and beta testers... I don't really understand why would one ask people to help with testing if one will completely ignore the results these people give. Still, I hope melees are enjoying their precious World of Meleecraft; because we casters surely don't. This is first time since I've started playing wow I am not enjoying raids, like, AT ALL. And don't even get me started on what happens in rated pvp right now... casters simply are being raped 24/7 and they can't do anything about that. Good job Blizzard, good job indeed.

[mizeri]

yeah no fuck that, with Legion blizzard forced player to be pigeonholed into a single spec, so every single spec in the game need to be good at ST, Cleave and AoE.

Blizzard wrote dumb rules, now they have to take responsibility

this right here, i'd be ok if they allowed it where you can transfer AP to the weapon of the better spec.

[Woobels]

Lol, wat.

Since craptaclysm all the bosses are "melees tunnel boss and _occasionally_ move while ranged feel like they're being blessed by gods if they do not have to move every X seconds", and X parameter becomes lower with every new expansion. Not to mention that hit boxes of bosses and the bosses themselves become bigger and bigger with every expack... I do understand that skilled ranged maybe takes less damage than a skilled melee for obvious reasons, but thinking that ranged deal with less mechanics is just plain idiocy. Sorry to burst your bubble, but its ranged who execute boss mechanics while melees only rofltunnel.

Strictly on topic though, I find class balance in Legion awful. Blizzard should feel really ashamed of themselves, so much time balancing and such ridiculous results. Moreso, these results were called by numerous alpha and beta testers... I don't really understand why would one ask people to help with testing if one will completely ignore the results these people give. Still, I hope melees are enjoying their precious World of Meleecraft; because we casters surely don't. This is first time since I've started playing wow I am not enjoying raids, like, AT ALL. And don't even get me started on what happens in rated pvp right now... casters simply are being raped 24/7 and they can't do anything about that. Good job Blizzard, good job indeed.

What do you play? My caster feels really strong.

[l33t]

What do you play? My caster feels really strong.

I play outlaw, because I had my share of "awesome" experience of caster gameplay in Legion during beta and was smart enough to reroll in time. But my shadowpriest raiding alt is simply the very opposite of fun. My guild's warlock feels the same about his demo lock. My guild's ele sham rerolled to resto, because ele is unplayable. My guild's other shadowpriest is playing, but he already voiced his desire to switch to melee, preferably DH. My guild's boomkin stopped playing a week ago, after he played a couple of dungeons and a couple of battlegrounds @110. Our guild's mage hates his life because he loves frost, and frost is currently unviable even in pvp. Another mage plays fire and likes it, that's the only positive caster experience I've ever heard from my guildies.

Since the starting of Legion I struggle to recruit any casters at all, because why would you fuck your life with that boring immobile piece of shit made of glass, when you can roll a hunter instead and do like 2x damage in raids/3x damage in m+ dungeons/and all that while being mobile and being able to pull like half of location and kill it in 4 gcds on world quests and soloplay.

What do you play? Fire mage?

[Deleted]

LOL at the White Knights who kept insisting that warlocks would be totally different in raids, like affliction's shit single target on a Mythic boss was magically going to get better on a raid boss.

I mean, ffs, even the devs in the Q&A bought into that garbage - even if it were true, doing well in raids in no justification for doing shit in dungeons, particularly as you rely on initial dungeons to gear you up for raids

My guess is the "locks r fine" guys will now start saying "7.1 will fix it" after the balancing patch next week gives us 3% more on drain soul

[Deleted]

Lol, wat.

Since craptaclysm all the bosses are "melees tunnel boss and _occasionally_ move while ranged feel like they're being blessed by gods if they do not have to move every X seconds", and X parameter becomes lower with every new expansion. Not to mention that hit boxes of bosses and the bosses themselves become bigger and bigger with every expack... I do understand that skilled ranged maybe takes less damage than a skilled melee for obvious reasons, but thinking that ranged deal with less mechanics is just plain idiocy. Sorry to burst your bubble, but its ranged who execute boss mechanics while melees only rofltunnel.

Strictly on topic though, I find class balance in Legion awful. Blizzard should feel really ashamed of themselves, so much time balancing and such ridiculous results. Moreso, these results were called by numerous alpha and beta testers... I don't really understand why would one ask people to help with testing if one will completely ignore the results these people give. Still, I hope melees are enjoying their precious World of Meleecraft; because we casters surely don't. This is first time since I've started playing wow I am not enjoying raids, like, AT ALL. And don't even get me started on what happens in rated pvp right now... casters simply are being raped 24/7 and they can't do anything about that. Good job Blizzard, good job indeed.

Alright tell me all the fights you would take a melee over a casters on mythic(formerly heroic) since cata hell tell me a single tier where you would at all stack melee and not stack casters.

Also I do agree balance is shit so shit I am not playing before its fixed.

[SteveRocks]

problem right now is that the amount of kills is much higher on the easy bosses than on the hard ones, Noone cares about what you play on an easy fight.
What matters is the performance on hard bosses, that is where bad speccs get sat out for the FOTM classes.

Take nythendra for example: lots of moving, any caster will hate the dev who came up with that encounter. At Ill'gynoth you want spread dps on the different adds and burst on the heart while being able to stay away from others for the aoe during heart, so more range-friendly.

And last but not least, from this screenshot alone, you cannot see how much petting is done to artifically boost DPS.

That's extremely subjective. What you consider the "hard bosses," could very well be the "easy bosses," for someone else. A boss fight is a boss fight. Obviously some specs will do better in some situations over others.

Also if your guild ever benches you for a "FoTM spec," then you're in the wrong guild.

[l33t]

Alright tell me all the fights you would take a melee over a casters on mythic(formerly heroic) since cata hell tell me a single tier where you would at all stack melee and not stack casters.

Also I do agree balance is shit so shit I am not playing before its fixed.

You don't pay attention to what you read. You HAVE TO take ranged because ranged kill the boss by executing mechanics. Not because they are cool or deal great damage. Melee is useless and can easily be switched to ranged in almost any possible scenario, because melees can't execute mechanics and deal damage at the same time.

I never said people were stacking melees over ranged, I said it is a very wrong way of thinking that melees do mechanics while ranged just stand there and pew pew, because in reality its strictly opposite from that.

[Ellianar]

LOL at the White Knights who kept insisting that warlocks would be totally different in raids, like affliction's shit single target on a Mythic boss was magically going to get better on a raid boss.

I mean, ffs, even the devs in the Q&A bought into that garbage - even if it were true, doing well in raids in no justification for doing shit in dungeons, particularly as you rely on initial dungeons to gear you up for raids

My guess is the "locks r fine" guys will now start saying "7.1 will fix it" after the balancing patch next week gives us 3% more on drain soul

Same thing with delusional warriors that say IP is op in dungeon and somewhat will become garbage in raid thus not needing a nerf... It's pathetic...

And I'm playing a prot warrior.

[Woobels]

I play outlaw, because I had my share of "awesome" experience of caster gameplay in Legion during beta and was smart enough to reroll in time. But my shadowpriest raiding alt is simply the very opposite of fun. My guild's warlock feels the same about his demo lock. My guild's ele sham rerolled to resto, because ele is unplayable. My guild's other shadowpriest is playing, but he already voiced his desire to switch to melee, preferably DH. My guild's boomkin stopped playing a week ago, after he played a couple of dungeons and a couple of battlegrounds @110. Our guild's mage hates his life because he loves frost, and frost is currently unviable even in pvp. Another mage plays fire and likes it, that's the only positive caster experience I've ever heard from my guildies.

Since the starting of Legion I struggle to recruit any casters at all, because why would you fuck your life with that boring immobile piece of shit made of glass, when you can roll a hunter instead and do like 2x damage in raids/3x damage in m+ dungeons/and all that while being mobile and being able to pull like half of location and kill it in 4 gcds on world quests and soloplay.

What do you play? Fire mage?

I do play fire.

SPriests in our guild have been very positive after the first week of raiding though, I understand warlock complaints and I'm ignorant about balance druids so I won't comment.

[Schizoide]

Finally, real data. Hope to see the lower third see buffs next week, and the top outliers (marks and havoc) nerfs.

[Screwtape]

Except there was for years and developers stated as much. Which is why hybrids sucked ass for years. Unless you're just ignoring the first few years of the game.

No, they never "stated as such" and they didn't change their philosophy. They just stopped saying anything close to it because they realized people like you couldn't understand their point.

http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/...rawler-quotes/

[Beet]

No, they never "stated as such" and they didn't change their philosophy. They just stopped saying anything close to it because they realized people like you couldn't understand their point.

http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/...rawler-quotes/

Except that's incorrect. Hybrid "tax" was talked about specifically when Blizzard started doing the class updates in vanilla. In which ever patch was a patch dedicated to a class revamp. 1.7 being Hunter's etc. While I like GC, he is wrong on this issue. Probably because he wasn't even around at Blizzard then. Class hybrid tax was talked specifically by Tigole and Eyonix both on the forums in the past. I'd love to get you some links and proof, but Blizzard didn't archive their forums AFAIK.

And yes they did change their philosophy. Jesus how do you think they didn't? In vanilla and TBC you had Paladins, Druids, priests, and shaman who did only one thing well and that was healing. (For the most part anyways). Come WotLk they changed their mind and started to design the hybrids so they were usable in more than one default spec(Healing).

[Screwtape]

- - - Updated - - -

Except that's incorrect. Hybrid "tax" was talked about specifically when Blizzard started doing the class updates in vanilla. In which ever patch was a patch dedicated to a class revamp. 1.7 being Hunter's etc. While I like GC, he is wrong on this issue. Probably because he wasn't even around at Blizzard then. Class hybrid tax was talked specifically by Tigole and Eyonix both on the forums in the past. I'd love to get you some links and proof, but Blizzard didn't archive their forums AFAIK.

And yes they did change their philosophy. Jesus how do you think they didn't? In vanilla and TBC you had Paladins, Druids, priests, and shaman who did only one thing well and that was healing. (For the most part anyways). Come WotLk they changed their mind and started to design the hybrids so they were usable in more than one default spec(Healing).

Even if what you say is true, they failed. Yes, mage and rogue was great during Vanilla. Warrior was ok dps though. Warlock was no great shit, either. Blizzard was just figuring out what the game was there. Everyone who could heal, healed. Druids and Paladins couldn't tank either until the end of TBC. Were they paying a hybrid tax for tanking? Did Blizzard design classes with 3 different specs and never intend for two of them to be used in PvE? I find the idea that they designed 3 specs per class and only wanted one per class useable at all. Except for warriors, who are a god class, apparently. It doesn't require a philosophy, it just means they were figuring stuff out.

There has been no point in the game where the 4 pure dps classes were above everyone else, like some pure dps lords.