[Ret Paladin] Stat Weights.

[stolker]

The plots are misleading garbage. What you'd really need is a multidimensional plot showing covalues of all those stats, but simcraft can't do that because it would mean simming again and again 'in all combinations of stat directions' which takes a ridiculous amount of time.

[Deleted]

Yeah i was just wondering if people thought it should be above or below mastery and/or vers, oppose to wanting the exact stat weight for it post-cap.

[Fatali]

I don't even understand anymore.

I've been simming a slew of gear sets ranging from 16% haste to 26%(highest I can get right now) and the 16% sims the highest by a decent chunk. That's with testing every Zeal/TFoJ and VB/BoW combination too.

Seems nonsensical to use that little haste, so I've been using a 30% crit, 23% haste, 15% mast, 4% vers set up since that's the highest haste before the dps drops off in sims.

The obvious thing to ask is, are you sure your settings are right?
If you've set your simcraft to try and simulate a fight with, say, five targets, then obviously haste is going to make way for crit, mastery, and versa.

[Deleted]

I still dont get why people keep saying that haste is less valued because people dont use TFoJ and such things?
For me with every single damn combination of tfoj/zeal and crusade/dp... zeal haste comes up far above strength even and when i go TFoJ, it goes down a lot.
I am at 28% haste, 21% crit, 25% mastery, 3% vers
Zeal/DP: haste 9,41... strength 8,06... dps: 261.5k
TFoJ/DP: haste 8,42... strength 8,04... dps: 257,5k (tfoj lower than zeal)
TFoJ/Cru: haste 6,81... strength 8,09... dps: 281k (haste is only above mastery with vers>crit being both ahead)
Zeal/Cru: haste 10,77(!!!)... strength 8,30... dps: 279k

So actually with zeal haste has insane value, and bad with TFoJ... yet people here claim the opposite... and even insult those that use zeal lol

[dnicks17]

The obvious thing to ask is, are you sure your settings are right?
If you've set your simcraft to try and simulate a fight with, say, five targets, then obviously haste is going to make way for crit, mastery, and versa.

Yeah. I had it set to single target 5 minute fights.


I think I just must have been in a weird spot where my extremely high crit + low haste/mastery made crit way more valuable than usual.

I've got some gear since then and my crit has dropped about 10% while bringing my haste to 29%. Now haste is by far my best stat. Even better than strength.

[Vaelorian]

So how is haste now? Seems I have:
33% haste
33% crit
18% mastery
4% versatility

So is this too much haste? Too few versatility? I can swap out a trinket to get a pure strenght one with a nice extra often proccing thing.

[elvor0]

Why does it matter how much % of my damage is TV. The point is that my character has higher dps single target right now with zeal. Why would I gem and enchant for if I magically were to get the legendary cloak? That argument makes no sense. All I'm trying to point out is that paladin stats are in a weird place right now, and everyone will sim differently. Telling people to universally go for 30% haste is not giving them the right information, same with zeal/TFoJ.

Can you stop posting shit? You spam it and act like you know it all and are high almighty when in fact you have no idea what you are talking about.
Im at 28% haste(22% crit, 26% mastery), using zeal (as its best option and sims quite above TFOJ) and for me haste is even above strength...
Like... quite a bit above! 8.55 for haste and 7.95 for strength

Zeal can be higher in a vaccum, which is what sims are, a vaccum. None of the top several hundred ranking paladins use zeal, even those without the cloak because TFOJ value is more than just the CS damage, its the increased TV and DS and synergy with our t19 4pc(as pants as it is). Of course using Zeal will change the balance of TV and DS damage because Zeal does more damage than CS but causes you to cast LESS TV/DS. He might be being aggressive about it, but he's right. Zeal is not better than CS in practice unless you have very low gear levels. Sims are good for getting a rough idea but they are still sims, not actual in game data.

Also, 30% haste is for the cloak, I'm pretty sure in general people are pertaining the 30% to the cloak, otherwise 20% is a generally considered the safe amount.

Plus again, vaccum problem. Haste has little no no value in between 20ish and 30 because it doesn't add anything, so when you sim it over 20ish, it will be bottom, but plotting with the cloak should show it adding value at 30%. its once you hit 30 for the cloak that's when it adds value, not before, because before then it doesn't add the extra GCD. Forward planning.

[Deleted]

Zeal can be higher in a vaccum, which is what sims are, a vaccum. None of the top several hundred ranking paladins use zeal, even those without the cloak because TFOJ value is more than just the CS damage, its the increased TV and DS and synergy with our t19 4pc(as pants as it is). Of course using Zeal will change the balance of TV and DS damage because Zeal does more damage than CS but causes you to cast LESS TV/DS. He might be being aggressive about it, but he's right. Zeal is not better than CS in practice unless you have very low gear levels. Sims are good for getting a rough idea but they are still sims, not actual in game data.

Also, 30% haste is for the cloak, I'm pretty sure in general people are pertaining the 30% to the cloak, otherwise 20% is a generally considered the safe amount.

Plus again, vaccum problem. Haste has little no no value in between 20ish and 30 because it doesn't add anything, so when you sim it over 20ish, it will be bottom, but plotting with the cloak should show it adding value at 30%. its once you hit 30 for the cloak that's when it adds value, not before, because before then it doesn't add the extra GCD. Forward planning.

You do understand you are quoting post from 6 months ago? Plenty of stuff changed since then... T19 didnt exist back then and there were barely any legendaries running around, let alone perfect ones. And also i never even had cloak... those were general, normal gear sims and haste actually gained value and kept increasing after 20% and until something like 29% with zeal. 29%-30% it would drop a lot and wouldnt peak at 30% at all.

And he wasnt right at the time of posts... 2nd week of emerald nightmare raid. Before all the tweaks and stuff that happened since.
Just check post i quoted. He claimed that Zeal is good with bad haste and that because some guy uses Zeal that haste is bad stat to him. When it was quite the opposite... as haste was by far the best stat(above str even) for Zeal and trash for TFoJ.

So no, he wasnt right and he still isnt right. As posts i quoted were and still are flat out wrong.

[elvor0]

You do understand you are quoting post from 6 months ago?

And he wasnt right at the time of posts... 2nd week of emerald nightmare raid.

oops. Nope, didnt realise it. Fool'd by necro. Yeah he wasn't right at time of post, but I didnt realise it was 6 months old....