First presidential debate - September 26: Trump vs Hillary

[Dren The Black]

Are you sure they won't switch to corn production subsidies as many have done after Reagan's farm aid solution? Because that's what they actually do...

How about you actually punish employers for doing it, so illegals have no jobs to come here for? You know, when cheese attracts mice, unless it's inside a mouse trap... You should really put it out of reach of mice...



On what planet does amnesty removing undocumented labor, assist in business seeking undocumented labor? Because there aren't enough and business need to encourage more to come? There is a reason Trump points at the people and not corporations like him self, who creates the demand by employing them.

Yes. Let's do that. Let's punish companies who employ illegal labor. I completely agree. 100%.

Who said anything about amnesty removing ILLEGAL labor? I mean, technically it would because they would be legal citizens at that point but...

Enforce our immigration policies. They're there for a reason.

[TZucchini]

Economy is always top on my list.

Abortion and Gun control are just distractions, that shit never changes.

OK. Have you seen the economic plan for each candidate? They're incredibly different. Especially their attitudes on trade, relations with China, minimum wage increases, business regulations, tax brackets, etc.

Do you favor one over the other? Wouldn't it make sense to vote for the candidate that closer resembles your most important economic plan.

[Breccia]

That's hilaroius....and untrue.

a) "Miss Housekeeping" went 100% without contradiction.
b) Was tossed a softball question about the birther movement, during a discussion about racial relations, and choked on it
c) "I tell them nothing"
d) "I think that I've developed very, very good relationships over the last little while with the African-American community. I think you can see that." Little while? Also, this is the most recent poll I could find and it puts Trump at 3%, which is not a very, very good relationship that we can see.
e) Defended being sued for racial discrimination with "everyone else was doing it"
f) His Palm Beach club advertisement.
g) Supports stop and frisk, which was literally found unconstitutional because it was racist (that's the Fourteenth Amendment for those of you keeping score at home)

In a span of 90 minutes, in front of a live audience of undecided voters.

I don't find that particularly funny. But I do find it demonstrably racist.

[zenkai]

Simplifying things doesn't usually make it easier to understand; rather it makes it easier to misunderstand.

usually? Based on your own personal experience?

[Endus]

Hillary brought it up during the debate. I don't remember Trump's exact response/wording, but sounded like he settled, but did not admit fault. He also claimed a lot of hotels got prosecuted with the same thing without any proof (strawman argument), but that's such an easy thing to bullshit about without any proof.

The whole thing was problematic. Trump claimed he wasn't "found guilty", but you don't rule on guilt in a civil lawsuit, but fault. And a settlement necessarily includes admission of fault; otherwise, you'd insist that you were not at fault and seek a ruling in your favor. Trump had to publicly state that his properties would now be open to all renters, even minorities, and give a civil-rights group a list of vacancies so their constituents would have first access. And that didn't settle it, because a new lawsuit was filed for continued discrimination a few years later.

So pretending as if he were exonerated is just flat-out ridiculous.

[gusty jack]

Yeah because you need to watch the game to understand who won, not seeing the score of the highlights will do. Try harder, if anything based on our past conversations I am more informed than you.

Who decides what the highlights are? You waltz around these forums wearing your holier-than-thou-awake pants, but you're going to let other people decide for you what the important parts of the debate were?

Presidential debates don't have scores. The winner is entirely subjective and decided individually by everyone who watches. You can't make an informed decision in that regard unless you watch the debate.

You're not awake, you're just stupid and arrogant.

infracted - minor flaming

[zenkai]

Claims of oversimplification are generally from people unable to explain why the comparison doesn't apply to their claim. E.g., the South Park episode where Gerald became a dolphin and Kyle became black as a comparison to transgender claims. Not trying to violate the rules and bring these into discussion, just saying that South Park did a good job from a logical point of view. People are free to inject magic and pseudo science to make their argument seem more sound.

Yeah, I agree.

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Voting for Hillary doesn't make someone a Hillary supporter. Just an FYI.

I see this would really make a good signature quote...

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OK. Have you seen the economic plan for each candidate? They're incredibly different. Especially their attitudes on trade, relations with China, minimum wage increases, business regulations, tax brackets, etc.

Do you favor one over the other? Wouldn't it make sense to vote for the candidate that closer resembles your most important economic plan.

Hitler could have the best economic strategy in the world, doesn't mean I am going to vote for him.

[Garnier Fructis]

usually? Based on your own personal experience?

No, based on the fact that most people don't understand 1) the economy, 2) science, 3) immigration, 4) law and lots of other things. These are not things you can simplify and still understand well. Why do you think so many people in the U.S. don't believe in evolution? Because all they hear are simplifications without critical details, and they simply extrapolate incorrectly from there.

[zenkai]

Oh lulz. That was a sad attempt at baiting on your part. Cmon man at least put some effort into it!

Funny, your own reply would have made a perfect reply to your OP.

[Breccia]

The whole thing was problematic. Trump claimed he wasn't "found guilty", but you don't rule on guilt in a civil lawsuit

Trump did say there was no admission of guilt. Which is pretty stupid phrasing, by the way. But what he did have to do, was hit racial quotas and advertise in periodicals on the "brown" side of town, for years, or be dragged back into court. Basically, he said "I didn't do anything wrong, and I promise not to do it again."

Which he did. He was sued a second time.

[zenkai]

Trump is neither of those 3, Hillary is not crazy... she is not honest(strays from/stretches facts)... she is pretty respectable... (respect is kind of subjective)...

So of the two choices, I would have to go with Hillary... and all in all, she did pretty good at the debate.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAH oh god, *takes a deep breath* Hahahahahahaha Dude stop, I have tears in my eyes!

[Halicia]

Who said anything about amnesty removing ILLEGAL labor? I mean, technically it would because they would be legal citizens at that point but...

Enforce our immigration policies. They're there for a reason.

Even if everyone in the US were citizens that were 100% legally employable, there would still be illegal labor.

non-citizens aren't the only people getting paid under-the-table, or off the clock, or changing mileage to make the schedule fit.

[GennGreymane]

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAH oh god, *takes a deep breath* Hahahahahahaha Dude stop, I have tears in my eyes!

So woke AF

OT:
Honestly though Trump did not do well..... no matter how you spin it.

[Djuntas]

When will America get ride of its stupid non-working 2 party system.

Greetings just about the rest of the world. Its scary to think what a horrific elected person can do, when there is only 1 other side to fight back.

Please...if you don't like either candidate vote for a 3rd choice, just do it. You start a change today.

[Endus]

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAH oh god, *takes a deep breath* Hahahahahahaha Dude stop, I have tears in my eyes!

That you behave like this when someone says something like "[Hillary] is pretty respectable" is pretty clear evidence that you're not the balanced and neutral viewer you claim to be.

[Breccia]

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAH oh god, *takes a deep breath* Hahahahahahaha Dude stop, I have tears in my eyes!

Well, she was one of the highest rated Secretaries of State we've ever had. I mean, nobody's going to top Powell, but other than that.

EDIT: And her numbers overseas are pretty damn strong. You know, that's important for a Secretary of State. More so for a President.

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Honestly though Trump did not do well..... no matter how you spin it.

It's been an interesting day. Thanks for the on-the-ground perspective! I'd do the same if I could.

[GennGreymane]

People keep asking about third parties.... but honestly

I just wish the social media presence of Jill and Gary were more than just "at least we are not Hillary or Trump!" That does not come off as leadership to me. Obviously when you look into either, you can see what they really stand for. I do however have a problem with how they advertise. To Bernie's credit, he was more than "at least I am not Hillary" his social media presence was what his goals were... and memes.

[Breccia]

When will America get ride of its stupid non-working 2 party system.

No. We won't.

...sigh...

[GennGreymane]

Well, she was one of the highest rated Secretaries of State we've ever had. I mean, nobody's going to top Powell, but other than that.

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It's been an interesting day. Thanks for the on-the-ground perspective! I'd do the same if I could.

NP, was just what I expected.

[TZucchini]

I see this would really make a good signature quote...

Do you disagree with that assessment? Do you think everyone that votes for Hillary is a "Hillary Supporter"?

I voted for Bernie in the primaries. I wanted him to be President. But now I'll vote for Hillary in the general. I generally dislike her as an option, but find Trump to be too dangerous. Am I a Hillary Supporter?

Hitler could have the best economic strategy in the world, doesn't mean I am going to vote for him.

Can we deal with reality please? These deflections are ridiculous. We all know you're going to vote for Trump because you loath Clinton. And that's OK. I mean shit, I give conservatives a pass simply because of the Supreme Court pick that's up for grabs. It doesn't make them Trump Supporters necessarily.