Destruction feels like I'm perpetually in molasses

[ShiyoKozuki]

I feel like I'm slogged down and walking through molasses compared to my melee classes. I have 3 second cast spells that don't hit harder than instants on my melee classes, and my main filler is 2 second cast and hits for basically nothing. I have no mobility and have to stand still and cast for such long periods to deal damage nowhere near comparable to melee.

This class is really slogged down and I don't like it. WOD destro was really fast paced and interesting. The only way to fix these slow casting spells is to spec into backdraft and reverse entropy, but then I'm stuck with a 4 button rotation(no shadowburn) that's extremely dumbed down compared to WOD destro

Why is shadowburn a talent? Why is backdraft a talent? Why don't we have a burst cooldown anymore to line up with our chaos bolts? Why does chaos bolt do such trash damage for such a long cast time? Why is demonic circle a talent? Why can't we take burning rush and dark pact anymore? Why does shadowfury have a 1.5s cast time(????) while melee have instant AOE stuns? Why doesn't shadowburn execute?

Why do we have to spend 6 artifact points into a life drain and life tap DR to get our good immolate artifact traits? 6 points of 0% damage increase, meanwhile melee get 7-8% damage per artifact point 99% of the time with very little garbage filler, yay?
Why has everything interesting or remotely fun been sucked out of this spec?

[Gaidax]

I believe that removal of backdraft and WoD trait that reduced CB cast time by 0.5 seconds has a lot to do with it and this is also my complaint.

Of course if one stacks haste, then it becomes better, but I believe that CB having 3 seconds cast time baseline is not justified, it's not even the case of whether the damage it delivers justifies it or not, but simply the case of such long cast time spells do not sit well in the game dynamics of modern WoW and (justified in this case) expectations of people nowadays.

I'd love them to offload some damage from other sources to both reduce CB cast time and up its damage, I really don't think we need filler that does 230% spellpower damage in the upcoming fix, but what we indeed need is CB 2.5 seconds baseline and another 10% to it on top of what it will do after hotfix.

[Demonidze]

tried destro the other day and CB hits like wet noodle .. if Blizz tried to play into each class fantasy this xpack they totally miss the mark with destro.

that being said i suspect its because how people did absurd amounts of damage with havoc+cb in the past so they wanted to tune the potential down..

[Tangellos]

basically this. The class feels incredibly immobile and slow and doesn't even produce the numbers to justify being slow and immobile.

[Veyne]

if Blizz tried to play into each class fantasy this xpack they totally miss the mark with destro.

I honestly feel like, gameplay-wise, somehow the wires got crossed over the years between Fire and Destro and Fire somehow became the fast-paced spec while Destro become much slower

[netherflame]

basically this. The class feels incredibly immobile and slow and doesn't even produce the numbers to justify being slow and immobile.

"We see your point but think about all the health you have to help with your suitability!"
~Blizz Devs

[Atreyis]

Destro would be fine in a WotLK and earlier iteration of WoW. Back then bosses were not nearly as complex as they are in todays game (not trying to start a debate of harder vs easier, simply stating that movement is much more important). It is my opinion that cast times for all casters are unduly burdening and that at MAX they should have a 2s cast time when hardcasting but that there should also be many more procs for instant casts.

Few things feel worse that starting a cast and then have a boss ability pop causing you to choose between either losing the damage and moving now or praying that you can get the cast off and still move in time before pissing off your raid lead.

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Also this is why I initially went affliction out of the gates at launch and sunk 20 points in it hoping that the naysayers from beta would be proven wrong and the spec would be fixed. Aff feels so much better when it comes to mobility and reacting. Boy was I proven wrong.

[Turturin the Warlock]

I don't think it's the long cast time by itself that bothers me. Its the cast time + lack of wtf dmg it used to have + lack of mobility that together are the perfect storm.

MoP = same cast time, but higher damage, dark soul, burning rush, and KJs cunning to compensate
WoD = lower cast time, still higher damage, dark soul, burning rush, and a weaker KJ's
Legion = higher cast time, lower damage, no dark soul, burning rush as a talent, no KJ-like talent option.

Meanwhile, mages who have multiple high damage instant casts have ice floes.

In my mythic group this week I ran with two mages. Our ability to have good times on numerous bosses hinged on them getting targeted with "runaway" abilitites rather than me (i.e. Serpentrix puddle thing). Just not cool that I feel like a complete drag on the group when that happens.

[Deleted]

I don't think it's the long cast time by itself that bothers me. Its the cast time + lack of wtf dmg it used to have + lack of mobility that together are the perfect storm.

This.

At times destruction is already feeling pretty damn fast, possibly faster than I'd like when in a raid environment (Chronoshard helps with that). The problem I have is the bang for your buck, chaosbolt just feels flacid. If it felt like those 2 seconds spent casting CB and the ground effects you stood in (though that's rapidly not becoming an option in higher M+ ranks) were worth it because your cast felt big, that's one thing - but they don't right now.

I'd like some changes to mobility - Backdraft felt better as a stack mechanic than as a short buff that you're penalized for using conflag as movement filler for having, Portal should really be baseline considering the preptime and CD, but I think the artifact ability helps a lot.

Not a fan of destructions AOE mechanics compared to previous expansions either, but CB not feeling like it delivers is probably my second biggest gripe (or possibly incinerate doing nothing) and I really don't like shifting to mass resource generation to "fix" it, destro feeling too fast was one of the reasons I hated CR, though thankfully at least Legion doesn't have the damage redistribution issue CR had.

[Deleted]

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Without Backdraft and Reverse Entropy I feel like I could take a nap while Chaos Bolt is casting.

It would be amazing if Blizzard redesigned those 2 talents and made Chaos Bolt and Incinerate casttime shorter baseline

I simply have to spec those 2 talents otherwise I die of boredom. I tried Roaring Blaze + Mana Tap but damn it doesn't feel gooooood

[ShiyoKozuki]

I'd be fine with a 3s cast time chaos bolt if it did 1 million damage. Long casts for HUGE damage would be cool and fun, but it hits for an instant melee attacks damage ;/

[Crashen]

I think it's high time WoW did what so many other mmos have done, and get on board casting-while-moving. Let us move while casting, though have reduced movement rate, and speed the whole game up. Telegraphed attacks can trigger much quicker, melee and ranged can have a slightly more equal footing, and the whole game won't be quite as reliant on stand vs move fights.

[Qac]

Since everything else is on a % proc, why not add one for an instant cast CB? Maybe conflag gives a 15% chance for an instant cast CB. Would take some sting off our mobility issues

[Turturin the Warlock]

[QUOTE=Crashen;42515246]I think it's high time WoW did what so many other mmos have done, and get on board casting

to be fair, if we could just cast everything on the move always, there would be no point to having melee in the game. ranged would be better in every conceivable way. unless you made melee do significantly more damamge than range, and we no how much whining would ensue if they did that.

just a pure vs hybrid debate in a different form

[benjaminandjen]

All these comments are perfect

[Deleted]

Absolutely agreed. In mists and to a lesser degree WoD Chaosbolt hit like a truck. Now it doesn't and it's awful.

They need to buff the shit out of it. And I mean it, buff its damage by like 200%. Nerf the other spells to compensate if you must, but please make Chaosbolt fearsome again.

I think getting rid of Embers was a HUGE mistake. In Mists and in WoD without Charred Remains (rot in hell please), casting Chaosbolt was special and when you did cast it BOOM. THAT was fun. This iteration of it is not.

And yeah I agree, Shadowburn and Backdraft should both be baseline. The talents in general are a disaster. Poorly designed pretty much.

I feel like Warlock as a class has devolved in Legion. We were better in WoD, we were way better in Mists.

[ShiyoKozuki]

Agreed, it should hit for 1 million. No other number is acceptable.

[TickTickTick]

my only question is why did they take our baseline abilities/passives and put it on talent tree...

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Acasting Chaosbolt was special and when you did cast it BOOM. THAT was fun.

we were way better in Mists.

Oooh i remember being able to burst iron star engineers with two chaos bolts... 5.4 destro lock the dream i know we were fotm back then, but we were very strong and fun. they took away half of the things we got back then, then some of it went to talents (why do i have to pick between the things i USED to have baseline?) and some were just forgotten...

[Deleted]

my only question is why did they take our baseline abilities/passives and put it on talent tree...

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Oooh i remember being able to burst iron star engineers with two chaos bolts... 5.4 destro lock the dream i know we were fotm back then, but we were very strong and fun. they took away half of the things we got back then, then some of it went to talents (why do i have to pick between the things i USED to have baseline?) and some were just forgotten...

It's a good question. When you skill all those talents (shadowburn, mana tap, shadowfury, channel demonfire etc.) then it feels right again, but then we lack the passives and casts are soooo slow.

They streamlined a bit too much when it comes to warlock I feel. They can take away my summoning portal and eye of killrog if they want to instead :3

[Deleted]

I think it'd be fine if casters could always cast some spell on the move as long as that spell sucked, like scorch

We had one. It was called Fel Flame and was below Lifetap in the priority list in Cata, but it made you feel like you were still playing the game and fighting the boss when running around.

Celestalon pruned it and any request for it to be returned was met with the shitbag reply of "you just want to be OP". I wish I was joking.

my only question is why did they take our baseline abilities/passives and put it on talent tree...

Presumably it fit the double purpose of making a desirable and interesting talent and pruning down on the base kit.

It's really obnoxious when you lose core bits like Shadowburn though and you're forced between picking what's optimal and what feels like it belongs in the spec and has done for years. It took me a while to stop pressing my SB keybind after untalenting it.