[Speculation] I wonder how the Nightborne will regard the Night Elves post Elisande

[Orquitis]

Pretty sure Dath'remar Sunstrider and his followers immediately changed into High Elves upon creation of the Sunwell -- that's the difference I am thinking of.

No. The night elf to blood elf is a physical degradation. According Chronicles they changed due the lack of exposure to Well of eternity and Nordrassil (wouldn't make sense if it was the sunwell since it had the same woe waters). They feared the changes would get worse and so they created the Sunwell. While this well didn't reverted the physical degeneration, it stopped the degenerating effects. The crystalsong forest highborne also suffered that affliction as seen in Chronicles, they looked like high elves.The Shen'dralar stopped the effects thanks to the bidding of Immolthar (but almost all of them have whie hair, and it seems it is the first sign of that degeneration as seen in Thalyssra before Elisande created the nightwell)

WoE had the power of accelerate the cycles of growth and rebirth and made species evolve, highborne were so dependant to its energies that the loss of these life giving energies weakens them. So all the night elf off shots are... corrupted mutations like satyr and naga, arcane "mutation" due the eye aman thul like the nightborne or just lack of woe like the high elves.

[Beloren]

oh and let me add, after the epic showdown, the blood elves totally trash the nightborne and whatever foolish night elves with them... "the nightborne shall rule the world" - they wish - it's even more laugable than the gnome master race nonsense. Oh I do enjoy killing the arrogant darkies, who think so much of themselves, but aren't very useful.

Oh, and Blood elves were never that arrogant, in fact I don't really think blood elves are arrogant at all, they just appear that way, because they are being factual about things, I mean Sin'dorei standards ae usually much higher anyway, it's not arrogant to state the truth.. It is arrogant to think you'll rule the world because you're black and have magical well. Which we do.

Still it's fun to watch though. We are the future, the nightborne, night elves - are the past, and should stay there.

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But if they start to drink arcwine the nightborne will probably become manaddicts again. Also, night elves dont want a super powerful magic well, if they wanted so, they would have burned Nordrassil.

I don't see a reason of why commoner night elves would want to have a giant arcane well (the only ones that would want that are the shen'dralar highborne since they're already manaddicts)

am I missing something? why would drinking arcwine make them manaaddicts again. That's like saying using magic will make them mana addicts. The arcan'dor supposedly heals them from needing to drink it to survive. So basically they can function without drinking it, and drinking it should have no effect on them, nor should it cause them to be dependent or addicted. Their problems are because the over use imbalanced them.

And I think the night elves would be falling over themselves to get a piece of the Nightwell, with the Well of Eternity gone, and needing magic they obviously need better training with etc (wasn't the need for magic why they lifted the ban?), they will need a new source both to help them fight their battles and continue to do their moonwell land blossoming all over the place.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

No. The night elf to blood elf is a physical degradation. According Chronicles they changed due the lack of exposure to Well of eternity and Nordrassil (wouldn't make sense if it was the sunwell since it had the same woe waters). They feared the changes would get worse and so they created the Sunwell. While this well didn't reverted the physical degeneration, it stopped the degenerating effects. The crystalsong forest highborne also suffered that affliction as seen in Chronicles, they looked like high elves.The Shen'dralar stopped the effects thanks to the bidding of Immolthar (but almost all of them have whie hair, and it seems it is the first sign of that degeneration as seen in Thalyssra before Elisande created the nightwell)

WoE had the power of accelerate the cycles of growth and rebirth and made species evolve, highborne were so dependant to its energies that the loss of these life giving energies weakens them. So all the night elf off shots are... corrupted mutations like satyr and naga, arcane "mutation" due the eye aman thul like the nightborne or just lack of woe like the high elves.

You mean Night Elf to High Elf. Blood Elves weren't a thing until Warcraft III Frozen Throne despite the biology being similar aside from eye colors.

[Beloren]

They should get along quite well. At least that is my hope. They are smart enough to realize their need for each other. Night elves are desperately in need of an arcane power source and arcane magic wielders being quite weak in that department, and the few dozen Shen'dralar highborne nowhere near enough. They only a few years ago started embracing their ancient heritage again, because of the need, and that need has increased, the nightborne have both the expertise and the power they need to supplement and complete them, making the arcane a strong aspect of their society. And this time in balance, with the nightborne able to be balanced by the influence of the night elves.

The nightborne ofc, we see have need for the balance from nature, they are getting via the Arcan'dor with the druids help, this is their greatest need. Not to mention the corruption of the Nightwell seems like a job for Elune, seeing how a Naaru cleansed the Sunwell, how amazing it would be if we saw Elune in action here. Lacking faith and a priesthood, it makes sense also that they reconnect to with their faith here too, something that would be an encouragement to them. I'm sure it would also delight Tyrande to see her home city return to the fold of Elune. Not to mention being night elves now with a tree to help and after being couped up in a city for 10k years, I'm sure there will be nightborne yearning to enjoy the forest and enhance their re-connection to nature.

They seem a perfect fit for each other. It doesn't mean they'll enter an alliance or anythign like that, although that is my hope, what it does at least hint at is a good relationship. Afterall if the Bronzebeards can have a good relationship with the Wildhammers, separate, but in good terms, I can't think why even more so the night elves and the nightborne elves cannot - especially since both groups are from the same place, one group left to fight Azshara and won, saving the world, the other group remained and their actions helped make the victory possible even though they didn't know that. Though they've become different peoples, they would have friends and family amongst each other, which should also help the reconnection once the Legion business is done.

Good explanation, needy and dependent, looks may have changed, one group went to live in the forest, but same old night elves - needy and dependent, and can't seem to do anything properly without somehow making a mess over it - and then needing someone to bail them out of it.
they seem perfect each other indeed

[Friendlyimmolation]

They should get along quite well. At least that is my hope. They are smart enough to realize their need for each other. Night elves are desperately in need of an arcane power source and arcane magic wielders being quite weak in that department,

I really do wonder why you want Night elves to be carbon copies of Blood elves. Why do you so desperatly want NIght elves to be good at everything? They are the opposite of Blood elves and thats what makes them interesting. To have them just become magic elves ruins alot of what people know and remember them as.

[Enthralled]

No. The night elf to blood elf is a physical degradation. According Chronicles they changed due the lack of exposure to Well of eternity and Nordrassil (wouldn't make sense if it was the sunwell since it had the same woe waters). They feared the changes would get worse and so they created the Sunwell. While this well didn't reverted the physical degeneration, it stopped the degenerating effects.

... and then physically changed them into the high elves, which is what I was referring to -- not the trek from Hyjal or anything like that. But I am unsure of the time frame now. I was under the impression that it was instantaneous, now I am not sure.

[ravenmoon]

Good explanation, needy and dependent, looks may have changed, one group went to live in the forest, but same old night elves - needy and dependent, and can't seem to do anything properly without somehow making a mess over it - and then needing someone to bail them out of it.
they seem perfect each other indeed

that's really rich, especially coming from a blood elf

[Friendlyimmolation]

that's really rich, especially coming from a blood elf

Blood elves are able to evolve and change. They can rise up to a challenge and are able to learn. Night elves are stuck in antiquaty Night elves dont need the Nightborne, they don't need the nightwell. They need to embrace Elune/nature fully and actually rebuild their society. They prove themselves better with these forces more than they ever did with Arcane.

[Mehrunes]

I really do wonder why you want Night elves to be carbon copies of Blood elves. Why do you so desperatly want NIght elves to be good at everything? They are the opposite of Blood elves and thats what makes them interesting. To have them just become magic elves ruins alot of what people know and remember them as.

The Night Elves are like the Borg. They will assimilate everything to become the perfect race, fully in tune with the night.

[ravenmoon]

Fanfiction should obviously be presented as what it is, in the form of a outward disclaimer stating the intent to entertain or to muse on alternative scenarios. Theories should be presented with words like "in my opinion" or "my take on it is," phrases that indicate the person is taking known quantities to a somewhat logical conclusion or matching them to an understandable premise. Canon is canon - just cite your source(s) on request, or ahead of time if you think the line of discussion is going to be controversial or rebutted.

I tihnk the forums have actually been getting along quite well, and discussions, ideas, opinions, theories, passed freely without issue, except when Mehrunes or Zulkhan is involved, notice how they are the ones that kick this up every time - they come in make a stink with snide remarks, mocking, and they just change the tone. Imagine how I feel to click on a topic, then start seeing comments like the ones they make aimed at me, and in this case, when I'm not even there. I'm like get a life, if you feel every time you have to comment on night elf and nightborne you have to make snide remarks - it's inflammatory and provocative, and harassment. I feel harassed. Like a witch hunt - notice Auculd, this has been going on for several threads, and it's the same instigators.

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My preference is for open discussion and debate so long as it is polite and constructive. I won't censure or otherwise minimize anyone's opinions on a given matter, regardless of which position I personally agree or disagree with. However, if I get the feeling that this is a personal vendetta that is beginning to form across multiple threads I will take action to prevent it from derailing a given topic - action that will effect *all* parties in question.

I would like that, at least I won't have to feel like I'm in a warzone every time I come on here.

[Orquitis]

... and then physically changed them into the high elves, which is what I was referring to -- not the trek from Hyjal or anything like that. But I am unsure of the time frame now. I was under the impression that it was instantaneous, now I am not sure.

I don't think they instantly changed it seems it is a long process, it seems nightborne could have been high elves if they didnt had the nightwell. See how thalyssra hair turned white (like most of shendralar) before they even created the nightwell

[goblingirl]

Protip: her likeability goes up like 50% when you turn off the sound during her dialogue. It's like Blizzard couldn't settle for an accent she has, so they just gave her all.

This is absolutely it for me. I've always hated her accent, as it doesn't match the night elves whatsoever. I also don't think whoever does the voice is particularly good at conveying emotion either. I just wince when I hear her, all the way back to the WoTLK dungeon.

There are so many good cheap working voice actors in SoCal... they could have done better.

[Beloren]

Blood elves are able to evolve and change. They can rise up to a challenge and are able to learn. Night elves are stuck in antiquaty Night elves dont need the Nightborne, they don't need the nightwell. They need to embrace Elune/nature fully and actually rebuild their society. They prove themselves better with these forces more than they ever did with Arcane.

We'll said. He knows blood elves are the better elves, night elves, nightborne, just wanna be blood elves

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that's really rich, especially coming from a blood elf

blood elves inherited the problem from night elves, highborne in particular, and they did a much better job managing and coping
and they made far less of a mess or problem with the arcane.. to the night elves of suramar, use the arcane reponsibly, but despite that still overused it and got totally dependent on it, it even changed them into nightborne and made it impossible for them to sustain on anything else.. still a massive cock up.
And to make matters worse, they let the Legion in.

[Mehrunes]

Thanks for the correction. I was wondering what was up there.

Changing topic to things that are not up there but remaining at 7.1, we end with "also Shandris". Sadly. At least I haven't seen her in any screens so far. One would imagine the general of Sentinel army would be a pretty important person in Darnassian society (and a rather decent equivalent for Liadrin, who is present in Suramar in said patch), yet Blizzard seems to try really hard to ignore the hell out of her and focus almost exclusively on Tyrande and Birdman, with Jarod and Maiev appearing here and there (at least as far as Night Elves are concerned). A wasted opportunity, really.

[ravenmoon]

We'll said. He knows blood elves are the better elves, night elves, nightborne, just wanna be blood elves

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blood elves inherited the problem from night elves, highborne in particular, and they did a much better job managing and coping
and they made far less of a mess or problem with the arcane.. to the night elves of suramar, use the arcane reponsibly, but despite that still overused it and got totally dependent on it, it even changed them into nightborne and made it impossible for them to sustain on anything else.. still a massive cock up.
And to make matters worse, they let the Legion in.

BIAS !! So much for that the night elves Suramar did an excellent job with magic, unlike the Zin'Azshari highborne... they did not use it irresponsibly, managing their city perfectly, no aberrations, anamolies, demons or destruction, they continued well, and that's not an easy feat at all to achieve, certainly not something possible if you were indulging like Azshara. Their problem came because they HAD to rely on arcane magic to survive - food, even clothing after a while,, blood elves had no such problem but still got themselves out of balance - and they had the light and surrounded by nature to help them. There issue was then being in short supply of magic, they started leeching on others, and their condition was nowhere near as severe as the nightborne, who as you have notice don't leech on demons to satiate their thirsts nor on living beings not even animals - using crsytals and other such things. What did the blood elves do in their crazy phase? wreck havoc, they even went and called the demons, even the crazy nightborne didn't go that far at all. Kael'thas goes lusting after power to supposedly save his people, willingly and gladly joining the demons and calling them in.

And you want to look down on nightborne or Night elves for that matter...pfft.

[Faroth]

Changing topic to things that are not up there but remaining at 7.1, we end with "also Shandris". Sadly. At least I haven't seen her in any screens so far. One would imagine the general of Sentinel army would be a pretty important person in Darnassian society (and a rather decent equivalent for Liadrin, who is present in Suramar in said patch), yet Blizzard seems to try really hard to ignore the hell out of her and focus almost exclusively on Tyrande and Birdman, with Jarod and Maiev appearing here and there (at least as far as Night Elves are concerned). A wasted opportunity, really.

I said earlier in another 7.1 thread about all the elves coming together "Shandris Feathermoon or riot" and I stand by it. I wish they'd give her a new model without the stupid mask, put her in more traditional Sentinel armor (akin to what the Nightborne are wearing as guards in Suramar) and utilize her.

Honestly, she should have had a small camp in Durotar and been the quest giver for infiltration and sending the player in her stead to parley with Vol'jin before Siege of Orgrimmar.

She does show up in the Hunter Order Hall questline, but yes, they need to use her more, dammit.

[Combatbutler]

Their problem came because they HAD to rely on arcane magic to survive - food, even clothing after a while

They had a choice, but due to their own paranoia and cowardice, remained under their shield.

There issue was then being in short supply of magic, they started leeching on others, and their condition was nowhere near as severe as the nightborne, who as you have notice don't leech on demons to satiate their thirsts nor on living beings not even animals

Yeah that is why some of them have an army of withered at their disposal and try to suck the magic out of the blue dragons in Azsuna or toy around with fel magic, absorbing much from a fel engine returning from their nightfallen state and then trying to kill you. Thalyssra and her group do not fall to that level, but others clearly do.

. Kael'thas goes lusting after power to supposedly save his people, willingly and gladly joining the demons and calling them in.

So does Elisande and a very good portion of her people, there is a main difference Kael did not have enough troops to suppress his own people in Silvermoon, because the entire population there rebelled against him the moment it was clear he was in league with demons, he barely had enough to assault Quel'danas Elisande on the other hand has enough loyalists to control almost the entire city, despite being a legion lackey.

[Friendlyimmolation]

BIAS !!

Pot calling a kettle black.

Their problem came because they HAD to rely on arcane magic to survive - food, even clothing after a while,, blood elves had no such problem but still got themselves out of balance

Nightborne didnt lose 90% of their population and Nightwell in a day.

nd they had the light and surrounded by nature to help them.

Im sure in your perfectly unbiased point of view you just simply forgot that neither could halt the stop of the scourge, the High elves lost faith.

There issue was then being in short supply of magic, they started leeching on others, and their condition was nowhere near as severe as the nightborne, who as you have notice don't leech on demons to satiate their thirsts nor on living beings not even animals

They still had access to a well and weren't going into seizures as they had to fight addiction and Scourge at the same time while living in the ruins of silvermoon, seriously don't call someone biased and then leave out fragments or try to twist things around.

wreck havoc, they even went and called the demons, even the crazy nightborne didn't go that far at all

Fel infusion is all the rage among higher nightborne society last time I checked.

Kael'thas goes lusting after power to supposedly save his people, willingly and gladly joining the demons and calling them in.

And ellisande sacrifices her civilians to a soulforge, a fate worse than death.

And you want to look down on nightborne or Night elves for that matter...pfft.

Yea because they became slime, they didn't even know what suffering was (minus the exiled)
They do everything the Blood elves did and more, and they didn't even lose any of their comforts.

BIAS !!

Had to quote that again, Lol.

[Sundreamer]

for anyone as confused as i was: he means thaedris feathersong, not feathermoon. so we're not going to see shandris reuniting with a family member

[Mace]

I really do wonder why you want Night elves to be carbon copies of Blood elves. Why do you so desperatly want NIght elves to be good at everything? They are the opposite of Blood elves and thats what makes them interesting. To have them just become magic elves ruins alot of what people know and remember them as.

I think you're confusing me with someone else, just because I think they go well together, and they should be on the same team doesn't mean I want them to be carbon copies of each other. And if you mean wrt to nightborne, I think you're missing the point of what blizzard is trying to show you. This is where the Elven groups come from, they come from the ancient kal'dorei culture, and this is what they've shown you in Suramar and the nightborne, by making the nightborne a little different from the night elves, they actually now have a unique look for night elves of the ancient empire culture that are still practising it. It's not wanting a carbon copy, it's what we are shown, blizzard has been ramping up night elf arcane side for a while now, and it's got it's own unique feel to it, but it wil also feel familiar and similar to blood elf, because this is what high elf/blood elf came from when they started from scratch again, only this time, they built theirs around the Light of the Sun, the Light and the day, divorcing all the traditions of the night. They don't seem anywhere near as stuffy and as sticklers for function as the nightborne do. And if you read WotA, the nightborne seem to be behaving exactly how you'd expect pre-sundering night elf culture to behave like.

Blizzard has just brough pre-sundering night elf culture into the present, and not to confuse people, they gave them a different look in a great story. This part was always there, as introduced in WC3, it's just that we're seeing it now in WoW. They were even careful not to change the nightborne too much, they look enough like night elves for the connection to be easily apparent, but different enough to be unique. It's pretty much like Zandalari troll and drakkari.