I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[Glorious Leader]

Not if they remove the questline and all the other artifact appearances when Legion ends.

For prestige. A reward for paying to play while Legion was current. Pay now for the opportunity to grind 30 essences before they remove it!
...Or play something else. Dark Souls is a really good series.

At the rate they inflate item levels it will not take till next expansion to solo that content. Suggesting people play something else is a wonderful suggestion for those people. It is a disaster for the game. Private virtues public vices.

[Mandible]

On one hand I agree - it is just a cosmetic, and you should "survive" not doing it. It is however also a quest you got sitting around poking you in the face stating "you can´t finish me" (similar to having old quests they just haven´t been bothered to remove, but you can´t actually finish since the criteria has been removed from the world). And I find it odd something which has no power shouldn´t be allowed to be done by people who happen to not have the time for more organized raiding (point being them not having time, but still want to be in on some of the fun) - raiders are after all allready getting the mounts from last boss which the lfraiders don´t, and in aren´t the gear a different look as well - not to mention set pieces (where lfr only get some regular dungeon pieces shared between armor classes)?

So in the end I lean more towards people should be allowed to do these quests for cosmetic looks, and those who say they shouldn´t be allowed to do so being elitist something something censored.

[Choda]

120 pages of crybabies whining that raiders got a cosmetic something they didn't. WHAT A TRAGEDY!

And you wonder why we hate you.

[Rottegift]

I hope this post isn't going to turn into a stereotypical 'back in the day' kind of thing, but these are my cents.

Personally I think the sub decline really started when everything went to being so casual. Of course there are other factors involved such as the game getting old, but from my own personal experience the ingame experience didn't feel unique anymore.




Back in WotLK when I first started playing the game beyond just leveling like I did in TBC - eveyrthing felt special. I remember being a fresh raider doing Naxx etc early on before others and it felt so unique to be part of. I'd see other warriors in better guilds with THAT Betrayer of Humanity axe I wanted so badly. You knew who were good/experienced players without even inspecting them. Special titles, special looking gear, special mounts etc.

Now everything feels so homogenized. Special mounts like Amani War Bear and Raven Lord was introduced again to new players. Ppl used countless hours to get them before, and they just handed them out to everyone. What were they thinking? "It's just a sick design, so we want everyone to have the opportunity to get them easily". Well if everyone suddenly has it, it's not sick anymore is it? Then it's just turned ordinary.

Tier gear looks the same afaik. Even the classes ffs are homogenized now. And it's all down to the braindead casuals whining about everything not being equal. What's the point of a progression game if everything is equal? Why the fuck can't we have rewards accordingly to difficulty? I haven't even raided full normal EN myself yet, so I'm not some mythic player complaining about casuals. But I think there needs to be MORE, not LESS, rewards for difficult/time consuming content.

Only the winner gets the gold medal in the olympics, so shut the fuck up.

[Mandible]

And it's all down to the braindead casuals whining about everything not being equal. What's the point of a progression game if everything is equal? Why the fuck can't there be a lot rewards designed accordingly to difficult content? I haven't even raided full normal EN myself yet, so I'm not some mythic player complaining about casuals.

Except you _are_ complaining about them in those exact lines - so what you mean is you are just a normal raider complaining about people who don´t have the time to raid?

[Rottegift]

No, I'm complaining about the fact they expect everything to be available through the lowest difficulty.

[Deleted]

Another sterotypical reply regarding people who do not raid beyond LFR. I raid LFR only, so I must antisocial, enjoy solo, bad, lazy, mouth breather, autistic etc.

Anything else you like to add to that list?

Amazing how people can determine what others are like simply because they play the game differently.

Personally, I do not socialize with people with that kind of impression of other players.

You are anti-social if like the OP, you are complaining about a quest chain not beeing completable on the unsociable LFR.

You are bringing alot of irrelevant drawer arguments for this debate. I don't need a list because theres only one point. Quest is normal + only? Join a guild, Pug or shut up. It is not an essential quest line. Theres no legendary behind it. Its optional. Do you understand the concept? Optional. If theres an artifact skin that requires PvP and i don't like PvPing i will just accept that it isnt for me. If i want it, i will have to start PvPing. Are you capable of understanding this?

If you are happy with raiding as it stands now, you should be happy LFR exists as well.

That big BS argument is out of date. The creator of LFR himself already admited it was a mistake. Raiding existed before LFR. LFR is not a requirement for raiding content to be made.

[darklogrus]

I hope this post isn't going to turn into a stereotypical 'back in the day' kind of thing, but these are my cents.

Personally I think the sub decline really started when everything went to being so casual. Of course there are other factors involved such as the game getting old, but from my own personal experience the ingame experience didn't feel unique anymore.




Back in WotLK when I first started playing the game beyond just leveling like I did in TBC - eveyrthing felt special. I remember being a fresh raider doing Naxx etc early on before others and it felt so unique to be part of. I'd see other warriors in better guilds with THAT Betrayer of Humanity axe I wanted so badly. You knew who were good/experienced players without even inspecting them. Special titles, special looking gear, special mounts etc.

Now everything feels so homogenized. All the one time special mounts have been introduced again so new players could get them like Amani War Bear. Tier gear looks the same afaik. Even the classes ffs are homogenized now. And it's all down to the braindead casuals whining about everything not being equal. What's the point of a progression game if everything is equal? Why the fuck can't there be a lot rewards designed accordingly to difficult content? I haven't even raided full normal EN myself yet, so I'm not some mythic player complaining about casuals. But I think there needs to be MORE, not LESS, rewards for difficult/time consuming content.

Only the winner gets the gold medal in the olympics, so shut the fuck up.

This whole post is silly. You hate casuals but are one. You reference an expansion that was probably one of the most casual/kid friendly expansions ever made. You hate the reintroduction of mounts etc, but your found memory is of Nax, a kid friendly "reintroduced" raid.

[orderschvank]

sooooo the top arena gladiators don't deserve their own mounts?? Are you guys saying that for queing up for random BGs/arenas you deserve the same mounts that the top PvPers get?

Are you also saying that you deserve the same amount of gold that people who put in the hours to farm gold get? just because you don't have the time to farm?

I'm sorry you cant get everything in the game... no wait.. i'm not... stop crying and enjoy what you are able to get, or put in the effort.

[Rottegift]

This whole post is silly. You hate casuals but are one. You reference an expansion that was probably one of the most casual/kid friendly expansions ever made. You hate the reintroduction of mounts etc, but your found memory is of Nax, a kid friendly "reintroduced" raid.

Ok then. So since I'm a casual myself I have no other choice than agreeing with the opinion that more ingame material needs to be made available for us casuals too?

[darklogrus]

Ok then. So since I'm a casual myself I have no other choice than agreeing with the opinion that more ingame material needs to be made available for us casuals too?

No, I found it silly that you as a Casual is blaming casuals for the state of the game all the while referencing an expansion many called the most kid friendly expansion ever made as a basis for your argument.

[Deleted]

It's amazing how dumb people can be. The solution is simple??? Git gud and do normal, OP. LFR is a snoozefest

[Glorious Leader]

You are anti-social if like the OP, you are complaining about a quest chain not beeing completable on the unsociable LFR.

You are bringing alot of irrelevant drawer arguments for this debate. I don't need a list because theres only one point. Quest is normal + only? Join a guild, Pug or shut up. It is not an essential quest line. Theres no legendary behind it. Its optional. Do you understand the concept? Optional. If theres an artifact skin that requires PvP and i don't like PvPing i will just accept that it isnt for me. If i want it, i will have to start PvPing. Are you capable of understanding this?



That big BS argument is out of date. The creator of LFR himself already admited it was a mistake. Raiding existed before LFR. LFR is not a requirement for raiding content to be made.

Where are people getting this lfr was a mistake admitted by its creator from?

[grandgato]

The creator of LFR himself already admited it was a mistake.

Who gives a shit? He no longer works, or speaks for Blizzard. He also admitted his opinion was outdated and no longer relevant on the topic. Blizzard themselves appear to be happy with LFR currently as indicated in their Fatboss interview -

Ion: There were a lot of skepticism initially, but solving the 'sorry man raid is full' or 'someone couldn't make it, we have to cancel' etc. So we wouldn't want to change this system, we feel like it is perfect as it is. We think that the difficulties we've introduced being lfr, normal, heroic and mythic has worked out fine. LFR being for those who just want to see the content, normal for friends and family, heroic for guilds or groups that want to preform and lastly mything for the hardcore player base.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...n_hazzikostas/

LFR is not a requirement for raiding content to be made..

Sure there will still be raids, but do you honestly think the quantity and quality would both be the same?

[Smauldy]

I wish they'd allow you to queue for normal raids in the matchmaking system if you passed proving grounds, had the right ilevel and agreed to a disclaimer when you queued that said "This content is designed to be far more difficult than LFR mode. Proceed at your own risk"

If you wipe 30 times, so be it. Don't nerf it, don't change it, you were warned before stepping in. To me, that's worth it because it takes the power out of the hands of elitists and gives more people a shot at the content.

[A Chozo]

At the rate they inflate item levels it will not take till next expansion to solo that content. Suggesting people play something else is a wonderful suggestion for those people. It is a disaster for the game. Private virtues public vices.

Now that you mentioned the inflated iLvL... I really hope your method works. I don't want to grind several weeks of Emerald Nightmare with randoms on a pug list to get a skin. It gets boring... It's like completing the Water Temple 10 times for a new sword. I mean, I could do it alone, but in WoW you need the goddam raid group to do it. Mythic Dungeon is 5-man, it's easier to police and it is quickier.

I suggest other games because, sincerely, I'm starting to think that the average player's free time is too short to keep grinding in WoW, while we are in a age of really good games cheaper than a month of WoW. It's just a suggestion.

My biggest fear is: what if Blizzard really removes the hability to earn alternative skins from Legion? Every expansion I can go back and get cool weapon skins, but if they remove, they'll be killing that part of the old content D:

[Snuffleupagus]

Tier 2 is not Casual Play, Tier 2 is the time gated Tier. Artifact Knowledge, 34 Traits, 16 weeks of fucking Archeology. It's not casual, it's just time gated.

I'm reliably informed that casuals play up to 18 hours a day.

- - - Updated - - -

I wish they'd allow you to queue for normal raids in the matchmaking system if you passed proving grounds, had the right ilevel and agreed to a disclaimer when you queued that said "This content is designed to be far more difficult than LFR mode. Proceed at your own risk"

If you wipe 30 times, so be it. Don't nerf it, don't change it, you were warned before stepping in. To me, that's worth it because it takes the power out of the hands of elitists and gives more people a shot at the content.

They tried that. It didn't work.

[Zeek Daniels]

Heres the thing. LFR sucks but whats stopping you from getting in one of the many groups that are looking for extra people for Normal EN? LFR and Normal EN are pretty much the same thing. Hell even heroic just requires more dps on most fights. Can you seriously not just join a group and have them carry you for the quest week after week?

[Snuffleupagus]

Where are people getting this lfr was a mistake admitted by its creator from?

Ghostcrawler was one of the two designers to lead LFR development, and he has admitted the implementation we have is a mistake.

[Glorious Leader]

Ghostcrawler was one of the two designers to lead LFR development, and he has admitted the implementation we have is a mistake.

Where? Cite this please.