I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[Deleted]

You actually don't even understand what you quoted so arguing with you will be quite difficult. He actually says that he's sure he's made a lot worse decisions, but the first one that jumped to mind was that he has a lot of regrets ABOUT Raid Finder, not Raid Finder itself. Not that he thinks that raid finder was a mistake, but that he thinks that there were mistakes about the way it was implemented.

Other people in Blizzard have commented that the high participation rates of Raid Finder justify the creation of large raid tiers. And it was GC himself that stated people who run RF as their end-game NEVER would have raided without it. So the fallacy that without LFR more people would be raiding is just that, a fallacy.

I completely agree some sort of LFR needs to be in the game.
But just like ghostcrawler says, not the version that is a faceroll, people afk and bosses hit like kittens.

More of a group finder with a raid leader that can kick people, like he said, would be much better to maintain the epicnees of raiding.

[Requiem94]

Want the reward? Put the time into the content that awards it. Don't have time or physical means to earn the reward? That means the content isn't meant for you. You don't like it move the fuck on.

Hell, I'd argue doing the Legion dungeon meta for the last skin tint in the row is a hell of a lot harder than spending 90mins a week to clear normal at the very least.

What really makes me sad is that all the people complaining just haven't found the right guild to do stuff with their limited schedule. Seek out a guild that meets your needs and you'll at the very least be able to progress in normals to get the Essence done. If you honestly cannot do this than this raid content gated appear is simply not designed for you, and thus will not be awarded to you.


Edit: To further piss off the people who cannot do this in LFR, collecting 30 Essence is not the end of the quest and does not give the appearance. http://www.wowhead.com/quest=43521/e...power#comments

Following that link and scrolling to "Dreins"' comment after collecting 30 essence you are given a follow up quest that requires at least revered with Nightfallen, that quest leads you to do 3 more mythic dungeons(Court, Arcway, and Vault), after that you must collect 5 items that drop off of any demon in the Broken Isles(which has been quoted to take about 20mins of farming give or take), and with those 5 items you then summon a demon and kill it, after which you are given a quest to do a heroic/mythic Halls of Valor(with reports stating that the item only spawns in mythic and not heroic), AND THEN you are given a quest that says wait for Nighthold to open. If you scroll further you can see other users confirming this quest chain as they post about their progress in the questline.

Buckle up buck-a-roo's we ain't even close to being done with this.

[xpose]

At the moment blizzard announced this you could hear thousands of people with their silver spoons slowly banging and crying in sync.

[Snuffleupagus]

Again i must point out he did not say it was a mistake, nor can it be considerer as such by any objective measure.

I realise actually reading things is not your strong suit, but he said the current implementation is a mistake.

Saying his opinion is worthless because it doesn't meet your viewpoint is kind of pathetic, since he designed the damn thing.

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nope lfr is trivial because of blizzard fear it would destroy guilds and pugs if they make it the same of normal and heroic, i've already stated that for example FFXIV have normal and heroic with autoqueue and peoples kill the bosses without problems; would be there some failgroup? Yes like there are manual fail pug.

But what would be the biggest consequence of adding automatchmaking to normal and heroic? Simple all those guilds and pugs will almost disappear so lets be honest that isn't a QQ problem this is blizzard don't wanting this scenario, hence they keep lfr to the bare minimum both in difficulty and reward and that were they are wrong they are attached to a concept of guilds that still not work anymore, guilds should be a social space were you make friend without them become necessary to do content like companies are in ffxiv.

And we return to the post you quoted blizzard will never admit this is the problem and keep fueling the notion that lfr user are bad players.

LFR was not as trivial as it is now on launch.

It was nerfed because LFR heroes complained very loudly on the forums about how they couldn't clear sub-normal level content even with Tier and trinkets.

FFXIV has a different playerbase and is therefore irrelevant to your point. WoW has a much wider scope of skill levels and therefore tries to cater to them all. Allowing N+ to be queued in WoW does little more than invite forum QQ when entitled crybabies queue up and find themselves destroyed by mechanics (see: Cata heroics, LFR SoO before nerfs).

Despite people stroking their egos by saying N EN is cake, even Nythendra would block a lot of players found in LFR. Rot pools can be tanked fior a fair duration by DPS in LFR and therefore positioning in LFR is pointless. Good luck with that on any other mode without massively outgearing the fight.

Rehashing the same tired points and dismissing what actually happened with a "nope" is getting tired. Stop dismissing reality.

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I clock in around 12-14 hours a day and I do LFR so I guess your wrong.

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Good thing he doesn't work for Blizzard anymore.

"Raiders are losers who take the game too srs, but I spend 12-14 hours a day playing"

Get a fucking job.

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So we'll table the fact that what you originally said is not a direct quote you leave out the most relevant part of that piece:


We definitely spent a lot of dev time on raiding, so getting it accessible to a larger population made sense.

Which only butresses the argument that lfr was not a mistake (it fulfills that goal very welhal) and insures continued and better raid production. That GC has misgivings is meaningless. He is no longer employed there, has no obligation or responsibility to make sure those millions of people using lfr are being served and entertained by the game and is in general talking out his ass. He doesnt even remotely say what you suggest but he really ought to have known better than to have said it.

LFR needs to exist in some form. Not the form it is in now.

And not the form it exists in other games.

Also, people in this thread stating that they play for 12-16 hours a day buttresses the argument that LFR heroes are too unskilled for N+ raiding.

[datsuag]

LFR is bullshit. It's the worst thing ever invented in this game, I feel like I have to do it because I might get a lucky titanforoged upgrade but it's so mindnumbingly boring and pointless. It's just free loot for the masses, it doesn't require any skill or thought whatsoever. You can go in there and literally, physically roll your face on the keyboard for half an hour and get some loot.

[Mercane]

Also, people in this thread stating that they play for 12-16 hours a day buttresses the argument that LFR heroes are too unskilled for N+ raiding.

The problem isn't with their skill level, the problem is they won't even try.

Emerald Nightmare Normal is the same difficulty as Siege of Orgrimmar LFR. If you don't do mechanics, you die.

[Ravex]

Maybe because some people spend hours on raiding in this game, it's their hobby. It makes no sense if you spend 1 hour each week and get the same kind of rewards as someone who spends far longer. Why is it even a problem though? It's just a cosmetic appearance and they wanted it gated behind actual group content, not sign up -> go AFK content.

In my opinion it's only stupid considering the very limited amount of weapon skins available at the moment.

[purebalance]

The problem isn't with their skill level, the problem is they won't even try.

Emerald Nightmare Normal is the same difficulty as Siege of Orgrimmar LFR. If you don't do mechanics, you die.

SoO was the start of ignoring mechanics so that was a bad example considering you could 100% attack Nazgrim in defensive stance and he would still not gain more rage than he did in battle stance on LFR.

[Ravex]

._.

Properly quote me, at least. That's not at all what I said. What I said was that if people are really willing to quit the game because an optional cosmetic weapon skin is gated behind normal raiding, then I won't miss them. I don't think this game needs people who will cry and lash out and throw tantrums that everything they want can't be at their fingertips with a few clicks and no effort If rolling my eyes at players like that, whining and exaggerating about "millions" of people going up in arms over something so inconsequential makes me an elitist, then that just is what it is, I suppose.

Yes I did put a spin on it but it doesn't change what you said.

Anyone wanting anyone to quit a game that literally exists to make money off a certain quota of people is begging for an implosion.

I think there are millions of shit heads in the game that I would prefer not to be there but they pay for the game I enjoy.

Them crying, lashing out, and throwing tantrums is no different then the opposition doing the exactly the same thing.

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SoO was the start of ignoring mechanics so that was a bad example considering you could 100% attack Nazgrim in defensive stance and he would still not gain more rage than he did in battle stance on LFR.

Oh that started long before SoO

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At the moment blizzard announced this you could hear thousands of people with their silver spoons slowly banging and crying in sync.

While all the specially snowflakes grew a fat rubbery one?

[Glorious Leader]

He didn't think it was a mistake.
He just had the world of regrets concerning it. Totally not the same thing, ya? *rolls eyes*

Its really not as he didnt even say a "world of regrets". To be specific he did say "To be clear, the goal of getting more players into raiding is a good one.". Lfr achieves this goal enormously well. His misgivings about it are neither here nor there.

[FelPlague]

so can we /thread this btw?
because nothing from the original thread is correct or ever has been

1. both quests are not required artifact quests
2. one of the quests IS doable in LFR, and that one is for a rep quest chain, and is towards flying
3. the other quest that is not doable in LFR is purly cosmetic, unlocking the artfact apperance

so simply

"two"
one
"artifact"
one artifact cosmetic, one rep
"LFR"
one is doable in LFR

[Glorious Leader]

I realise actually reading things is not your strong suit, but he said the current implementation is a mistake.

Saying his opinion is worthless because it doesn't meet your viewpoint is kind of pathetic.

See the previous post. LFR makes raiding the most accessible it can be. This is fact. In that sense lfr achieved its goal 100% and cannot be considered a mistake nor does GC even say that. His misgivings such as they are are frankly nonsense and implied in what he says is the real question that they never saw fit to ask and is the REAL mistake they made. The question is why raiding? The mistake was not abandoning it.

[xChurch]

Yes I did put a spin on it but it doesn't change what you said.

Anyone wanting anyone to quit a game that literally exists to make money off a certain quota of people is begging for an implosion.

I think there are millions of shit heads in the game that I would prefer not to be there but they pay for the game I enjoy.

Them crying, lashing out, and throwing tantrums is no different then the opposition doing the exactly the same thing.

If only we could get rid of all the Mythic raiders who hate on LFR and get rid of all the LFR raiders who want things easier. Would make for such a better community if people gave way less of a shit what others do or don't do in a virtual world, or what they do/don't get in said world.

so can we /thread this btw?
because nothing from the original thread is correct or ever has been

1. both quests are not required artifact quests
2. one of the quests IS doable in LFR, and that one is for a rep quest chain, and is towards flying
3. the other quest that is not doable in LFR is purly cosmetic, unlocking the artfact apperance

so simply

"two"
one
"artifact"
one artifact cosmetic, one rep
"LFR"
one is doable in LFR

The OP never mentioned the Rep quest, this thread is about the Artifact questline only.

[W1sp]

I should get the pvp artifact skin even though I don't want to do bg'. I should get the gladiator titel but I don't want to do arena. This threads basically the pve version of the same whine that has gone on since tbx regarding titles and pvp mounts

[Snuffleupagus]

See the previous post. LFR makes raiding the most accessible it can be. This is fact. In that sense lfr achieved its goal 100% and cannot be considered a mistake nor does GC even say that. His misgivings such as they are are frankly nonsense and implied in what he says is the real question that they never saw fit to ask and is the REAL mistake they made. The question is why raiding? The mistake was not abandoning it.

Are you being intentionally dense?

LFR is a noble goal. The entitlement around cosmetic rewards is cancer.

I'm not denying that GC said the idea of LFR is great. It is. And this expac is close to getting it right. But not if they cave into this bullshit of "I deserve the same as organised PVE without actually participating".

The best you can argue for is another model and set of recolors for queued PVE.

Here's a thought. Remove runes, make them usable in LFR/LFG only, or make them drop from N+. Give me a good reason why this is a bad idea.

No one ever does.

"I shouldn't be forced into raiding for rewards! But it's okay to force raiders into LFR for rewards!"

[FelPlague]

If only we could get rid of all the Mythic raiders who hate on LFR and get rid of all the LFR raiders who want things easier. Would make for such a better community if people gave way less of a shit what others do or don't do in a virtual world, or what they do/don't get in said world.


The OP never mentioned the Rep quest, this thread is about the Artifact questline only.

ah im sorry it wasent till later, that he started complainign about the other aswell

[xChurch]

I should get the pvp artifact skin even though I don't want to do bg'. I should get the gladiator titel but I don't want to do arena. This threads basically the pve version of the same whine that has gone on since tbx regarding titles and pvp mounts

That would be a lot more accurate if the PvP one required a very long group based quest line that involved doing several Arena's and RBGs to not only get the first colour but also ever subsequent color. So it's really an apples to oranges argument since you can get the first pvp skin by just doing the dailies every day.

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Are you being intentionally dense?

LFR is a noble goal. The entitlement around cosmetic rewards is cancer.

I'm not denying that GC said the idea of LFR is great. It is. And this expac is close to getting it right. But not if they cave into this bullshit of "I deserve the same as organised PVE without actually participating".

The best you can argue for is another model and set of recolors for queued PVE.

Here's a thought. Remove runes, make them usable in LFR/LFG only, or make them drop from N+. Give me a good reason why this is a bad idea.

No one ever does.

The problem is that previously LFR has had similar but clearly weaker copies of things from harder difficulties with the exception of WoD which they've since backtracked on except for this. And it does seem kind of odd that they basically brought back the MoP LFR sans any weapon drops; if they brought back the trinkets and teir, why not make a LFR accessable weapon skin as well?

[FelPlague]

That would be a lot more accurate if the PvP one required a very long group based quest line that involved doing several Arena's and RBGs to not only get the first colour but also ever subsequent color. So it's really an apples to oranges argument since you can get the first pvp skin by just doing the dailies every day.

doing the dailies every day will still take you about 3 years to get the first skin colour so... (if the math somone did is still correct) so im sure come the end of the expansion making a weekly group to stomp EN then NH will be easy

and also who says later they wont make it possible in LFR, but want to give actual raiders a small bonus to start

[xChurch]

doing the dailies every day will still take you about 3 years to get the first skin colour so... (if the math somone did is still correct) so im sure come the end of the expansion making a weekly group to stomp EN then NH will be easy

and also who says later they wont make it possible in LFR, but want to give actual raiders a small bonus to start

Doesn't really change my original point though, it's still not comparable.

[roahn the warlock]

This statement is very far from true.

I've had more wipes in heroic dungeons than normal nightmare. So, very true?