I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[Jtbrig7390]

Nythendra is pathetic. My run people were running around like headless chickens, spread everywhere in the room and we still were not in danger of wiping at any point (other than by the enrage I guess . . .)

Ya on my first kill (last week day of release) Me, one more dps, one healer and both tanks was all that was alive on the kill. We killed the boss from 30% of his HP to dead.

[Dreknar20]

cause people better than you get better/more things.......

hard thought process.......I know

[Low Hanging Fruit]

If people thought like this then stupid ass threads like this wouldn't pop up all day of every week of every year. Looking forward to the next one!

[ovm33]

I have zero issue with there being raid only artifact skins... As long as there are PvP only artifact skins, Dungeon only skins, etc. There are, so I'm not seeing an issue here.

I'm the first to say that I think raids are over rewarding. I.E. Best loot, titles, transmog, mounts, etc. But the answer isn't removing stuff from raids but to add similar things, which in large part they have, to other content / progression paths.

[Darkeon]

So does the argument that if you want something then you should have to work more for it. Not saying Normal is hard but its not the ROFL stomp that LFR is. Now if it was something needed then yeah, I guess throw it in LFR to progress the story, but since its for a cosmetic skin and is something "wanted" not "needed" then put a little more effort on your part and join a raiding guild or a PuG.

Hey, pst, Normal PuGs act the same way as LFR. You press a button, you join, you clear it. That is, assuming it's a proper group, but the same can go for LFR as you get stacks of determination on top of other stacks of determination.

You are mistaking proper, challenging raiding for these modes. It's okay, you are not alone in making this mistake.

I have zero issue with there being raid only artifact skins... As long as there are PvP only artifact skins, Dungeon only skins, etc. There are, so I'm not seeing an issue here.

I'm the first to say that I think raids are over rewarding. I.E. Best loot, titles, transmog, mounts, etc. But the answer isn't removing stuff from raids but to add similar things, which in large part they have, to other content / progression paths.

PvP skins aside, as they are part of a different Row, all the others require you to complete this one in order to be able to equip the others, even if you completed the requirements.

[Snuffleupagus]

To be clear I wasn't leading this group I joined it. Had a healer who got out healed by both tanks (DK and Warrior). Had a dps doing 70k dps on the eye (Hunter).

Didn't wipe once on the first boss and wiped once on the bear boss. At the eye everything just fell apart. I feel hes going to be the pug killer.

Unless there was significant outhealing, that's normal on a lot of encounters.

[Tech614]

To be clear I wasn't leading this group I joined it. Had a healer who got out healed by both tanks (DK and Warrior).

Do you even understand how the game works right now? DKs, Wars and DHs all can pump out raw healing numbers rivaling healers and surpass them at times. It's self healing/absorbs, it has no effect on your healers. They aren't healing the raid.

[ovm33]

PvP skins aside, as they are part of a different Row, all the others require you to complete this one in order to be able to equip the others, even if you completed the requirements.

Really? I didn't realize that. I stand corrected.

And in that case they need to add in something unique for the dungeoneers.

[Sithalos]

You're lucky LFR even exists.

[Darkeon]

You're lucky LFR even exists.

Agree. Well, assuming you are talking to the organized, higher difficulty raiders.. because Blizzard has stated that it's LFR's participation rates that justify the amount of resources put into Raiding in general.

So yeah, I'll gladly join on your crusade, you raiders are lucky that LFR even exists!

[kary]

Unless there was significant outhealing, that's normal on a lot of encounters.

Jtbrig is a top tier mongo, he isn't aware of anything outside ret paladin mechanics :kappa:

I remember doubling the healing of my healers on beta Xavius on my dk. Still took a metric fuckton of damage, though. Lol.

[Deleted]

I was skeptical myself when the news came up, because i really don't have that much time to try and form or find a PuG. Me being ret makes it even more harder.

But anyway, yesterday i gave my luck a shot and got accepted into a normal group, did 5/7 easily (wiped on spider/eye due to silly mistakes, 1-shotted everything else). The truth is, it's not hard. No clue about Cenarius and Xavius, talking about the first five bosses. But people were listening, tanks and healers were experienced,as was the leader, hence the smooth run.

I doubt it'll be like that every week. But yeah, if people actually listen, pay attention and pull average dps (i went yolo aoe spec throughout the run, i had my issues on bosses but on trash it was more than enough), it can easily be done (normal, always).

[Deleted]

To preface this, a casual is quite literally defined as a person who does something irregularly. Meaning, no one who raids on a schedule consistently should really refer to himself/herself as such. The dedicated, is more in-line with that ideology.

OT: It has less to do with the rewards in my opinion, and more to do with how raiders are perceived by those that don't partake. The general community of raiders is seen as very insular and aggressive to outsiders. Coupled with how eagerly Blizzard tries to coerce the more casual players to play with these seemingly "militant" individuals, it creates this tension on both sides. From the raiders who don't want to play with people who won't conform to their rules, to the casuals who apparently want to do and have content that is meaningful without being undermined by the hardcore audience.

Exactly this! Just the suggestion of using an addon to fund a PUG (OpenRaid) is already a segregating tactic. We have a dungeon finder interface, and if you would really want to be a part of the game community, you would use this, and not some 3rd party tools. I probably would look in the official forums if I am not lucky with the ingame tool, but having to install an extra addon which should be obsolete by now, this is just too much. Especially for someone who have never used this addon before, and has no track record, it will have no use, anyway.

Raiders create a glass ceiling and if you point that out, they become agressive and put all blame on you.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey, pst, Normal PuGs act the same way as LFR. You press a button, you join, you clear it. That is, assuming it's a proper group, but the same can go for LFR as you get stacks of determination on top of other stacks of determination.

No they are not. In LFR, a machine decides on your participation judging only if you surpass the minimum item level requirement (=you are allowed to queue), your role, and the timepoint when you appoint to the queue. That's all. You are sorted into the next available group and start the run when it's full. You don't have to handle one decline after the other. The machine is impartial, people are not.

Determination buffs are only there to compensate that this automatic mechanic cannot create a "good group" in terms of synergy and player skill.

[Chemii]

Trying to shoehorn people who have no interest in doing normal raids into normal raids doesn't make these people want to do normal raids, it makes them unsubscribe instead.

Why are said players interested in LFR at all then?

If you have absolutely no interest in raiding, the way it was designed to be played then you have no reason to be disgruntled that you won't see the content associated with it, the same way people don't PvP if they don't like it.

Again it's a case of player mentality believing they deserve everything on a plate.

Yes you pay your subscription and absolutely nothing is stopping you from seeing everything the game has to offer but your own attitude and time investment. The barriers those players create are their own and nothing to do with Blizzard, money or other people.

[VinylScratch]

Why are said players interested in LFR at all then?

If you have absolutely no interest in raiding, the way it was designed to be played then you have no reason to be disgruntled that you won't see the content associated with it, the same way people don't PvP if they don't like it.

Again it's a case of player mentality believing they deserve everything on a plate.

Yes you pay your subscription and absolutely nothing is stopping you from seeing everything the game has to offer but your own attitude and time investment. The barriers those players create are their own and nothing to do with Blizzard, money or other people.

For as much sense as you're making it's pointless wasted on people who have already made up their mind about how they feel they should be given everything no matter how much less effort they feel like applying. This is the direct after effect of the "everybody gets a trophy!" mentality. It's also a bunch of people doing something brainlessly simple who feel even though their job likely overpays them for the "work" they do, that they should be entitled to a minimum wage increase.

It's a bunch of people raised on essentially communism where no matter what everyone should be the same because extra things for applying more effort hurts their feelings and is unfair. You literally can not have a higher difficulty award something over the LFR anymore without there being some backpeddling monkey pulling 70k dps in 850 gear who feels he's entitled to the same reward.

[Battlebeard]

I completly agree with OP. This is riddicilous.

Emerald Nightmare is way too hard to handle for todays pugs. It's just not gonna happen. Have yet to see a single pug to clear more than first boss myself.

[Yriel]

In a way i don't care because as a destro warlock and as a holy priest i think the default skins are the best of the bunch.

That being said, i think it's a stupid decision, not only because trying to herd people into content they don't like to justify their interests as devs is stupid, the low droprates make it even worse.
It's not just a case of "Just do one or two pugs of EM normal", you have to do that for months. And if their goal is to form social bonds then they should read about peoples experiences in those pugs, even the one that complete the run are rarely "Oh my god i found so many new friends"... it's not 2005 anymore, at some point they have to realize that.

[Chemii]

In a way i don't care because as a destro warlock and as a holy priest i think the default skins are the best of the bunch.

That being said, i think it's a stupid decision, not only because trying to herd people into content they don't like to justify their interests as devs is stupid, the low droprates make it even worse.
It's not just a case of "Just do one or two pugs of EM normal", you have to do that for months. And if their goal is to form social bonds then they should read about peoples experiences in those pugs, even the one that complete the run are rarely "Oh my god i found so many new friends"... it's not 2005 anymore, at some point they have to realize that.

I guess this sort of attitude is why I see so many people running around without a guild.

WoW is a reflection of real life in that sense. Everyone is a lone wolf walking around with their heads in their phones, talking to no-one. I have to wonder why you play an MMO if you don't want to play with other people. Being in a guild is an integral part of an MMORPG.

Am I experiencing a generation gap in a game? Maybe I'm too old.

[Flarelaine]

Emerald Nightmare is way too hard to handle for todays pugs.

And who do you think this reflects badly on? Emerald Nightmare... or today's PUGs?

[Deleted]

And you can still whip out your epeen in Dalaran with Mythic gear. Nothing changed there. Except less people will lick your 890 boots, because they don't care about it.

If they do not care why all the fuss about a few transmog items? Top end raiders should get a lot more goodies than a casual player clearing LFR. They said they wanted to make rading epic again. This is a step in the right direction.