Affliction is Still Underperforming.

[Jacpierre]

I didn't expect anything great. I can manage the math. A 10% buff was going to give between 15-25k dps depending on the fight. It really isn't that impressive.

Main problems we have:

While damage per cast isn't terrible now (all my dots tooltips say they do around 300k or more) we still have too long a ramp up. If i have to use at least 2 globals per target to dot, while other classes don't (Barrage, sweeping strikes/blade flurry, any true AoE skill like flamestrike etc, even chain lightning now which is strong as hell) then I am going to be behind on damage. If my dots take a very long time to deliver that damage, I am going to be behind, especially on priority adds which have lower live. A Demon Hunter able to Chaos strike an add once for 300k, or me putting a dot on that takes 15 seconds to do 300k. There is a big difference there.

The other problem is that while our dots may do a lot of damage per cast, our filler does not do enough. Right now my Drain Life does 250k and has about a 5 second cast with haste, so we are talking roughly 50k dps per second (give or take based on clipping for redotting, moving etc.)

To make this spec fit in with the fast paced, cleave nature of what WoW is today, we either need a much stronger filler, or we need our dots to do a lot more damage/deliver that damage more quickly. Drain life for example, shows up under 15% of overall damage for most parses. Some it's around 5 if there are tons of adds to dot. Doubling it's damage, or letting it be affected by mastery, and reducing the heal to 100 or 125%, wouldn't really have a monumental impact, but it would definitely boost while providing the utility for target swapping. There are of course other options, but the short of it is something needs done.

tl:dr Damage takes too long to deliver, filler is too weak for swapping or fights where casting dots isn't needed as much. It should have been obvious to them that buffing us the same as the other two lock specs, which greatly out performed us, was not enough.

[Obsession]

affliction will never be S tier, or even A tier. it has too much self healing

[Deleted]

Yes they buffed many others classes at the same time too.
Well and they backtracked on a lot of nerfs.

Overall not much did change :<

[Snes]

I've got 20 points in my affliction scythe. I'm dropping it and going demo. They are either out of touch, or as GC said, they play mages and have a vendetta against us for being so powerful in the pre-patch.

[pies1]

any true AoE skill like flamestrike

You realise flamestrike is a dps loss on anything under 8 targets, right?

[Jacpierre]

You realise flamestrike is a dps loss on anything under 8 targets, right?

The damage that one skill, out of the others I named, does isn't the issue. It is a true AoE skill. Multi dotting is not true aoe. Flamestrike could just as easily be buffed to the point you'd use it on 2 or more targets. The issue isn't what number blizzard deems it should hit for, it's how the skill works. I could have also just said, Fire Mage mastery, and one of their talents, which gives massive ignite aoe. Don't pretend like your "clever quip" in anyway diminishes my point.

- - - Updated - - -

affliction will never be S tier, or even A tier. it has too much self healing

And other classes don't have self heals? This is a weak argument.

[Deleted]

The damage that one skill, out of the others I named, does isn't the issue. It is a true AoE skill. Multi dotting is not true aoe. Flamestrike could just as easily be buffed to the point you'd use it on 2 or more targets. The issue isn't what number blizzard deems it should hit for, it's how the skill works. I could have also just said, Fire Mage mastery, and one of their talents, which gives massive ignite aoe. Don't pretend like your "clever quip" in anyway diminishes my point.

- - - Updated - - -



And other classes don't have self heals? This is a weak argument.

With the way the affli artifact works, I doubt they will do good boss damage since you get a lot less souls and your gold traits don't work, it's so bad in the arena D:

[Obsession]

Flamestrike could just as easily be buffed to the point you'd use it on 2 or more targets.

And other classes don't have self heals? This is a weak argument.

So could seed of corruption, you don't have a point here.

No other class is comparable to warlocks for self healing, but we can safely ignore this because it doesn't fit your narrative: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

[pies1]

I could have also just said, Fire Mage mastery, and one of their talents, which gives massive ignite aoe.
.

But that's not "true aoe" apparently.

[Railander]

isn't the self healing intended as part of the warlock kit?
warlocks have shit mobility and shit dps while moving, so its to be expected they should sustain incoming damage better.
compare it to demo, it has soul soul link and destro has passive damage mitigation from its mastery. in fact they could very easily, for instance, double drain life damage and nerf its healing by half to increase dps and maintain self-healing as is.

[klogaroth]

isn't the self healing intended as part of the warlock kit?
warlocks have shit mobility and shit dps while moving, so its to be expected they should sustain damage better.
compare it to demo, it has soul soul link and destro has passive damage mitigation from its mastery. in fact they could very easily, for instance, double drain life damage and nerf its healing by half to increase dps and maintain self-healing as is.

Yes.

Plus we have to life tap, and if you do want a movement speed increase you have to drop a decent defensive cooldown and spend 4% of your life every second of sprint.

[Obsession]

isn't the self healing intended as part of the warlock kit?
warlocks have shit mobility and shit dps while moving, so its to be expected they should sustain damage better.
compare it to demo, it has soul soul link and destro has passive damage mitigation from its mastery. in fact they could very easily, for instance, double drain life damage and nerf its healing by half to increase dps and maintain self-healing as is.

You are living in a fantasy world if you think that self healing is relevant on any actual difficult "things". You'll get one shot, or the damage is so high you have to move and can't heal through it. The self healing is a complete hindrance but is the reason affliction won't do well, its a balancing nightmare that they should just remove.

[wholol]

You are living in a fantasy world if you think that self healing is relevant on any actual difficult "things". You'll get one shot, or the damage is so high you have to move and can't heal through it. The self healing is a complete hindrance but is the reason affliction won't do well, its a balancing nightmare that they should just remove.

The main issue with that is the fact that you're only thinking about raiding, for pvp what you're suggesting is heresy.

Not to mention you forgot the rest of the non raiders/pvpers , aka dungeons/ leveling and although I do agree balancing should always be done with the most competitive forms of both endgames I also cannot agree that class fantasy should be decided based on those endgames.

[Railander]

You are living in a fantasy world if you think that self healing is relevant on any actual difficult "things". You'll get one shot, or the damage is so high you have to move and can't heal through it. The self healing is a complete hindrance but is the reason affliction won't do well, its a balancing nightmare that they should just remove.

while it is true the important mechanics that are avoidable are typically hit-kill, there are a ton of unavoidable damage mechanics meant to make healers have something to do besides healing tanks. taking half the damage or even less than half than any other classes helps healers a lot. just ask any healer how much easier it is to heal warlocks than other classes.

- - - Updated - - -

The main issue with that is the fact that you're only thinking about raiding, for pvp what you're suggesting is heresy.

Not to mention you forgot the rest of the non raiders/pvpers , aka dungeons/ leveling and although I do agree balancing should always be done with the most competitive forms of both endgames I also cannot agree that class fantasy should be decided based on those endgames.

even in pvp affli survivability seems subpar. demo is seeing a lot of spotlight simply due to the fact it has soul link and an artifact trait that buffs soul link even further. meanwhile affli has mediocre self healing and 0 damage mitigation. one culprit i think they need to nerf is essence drain, which does make affli overly tanky in 1v1 situations.

[Jessicka]

You're all missing that Affliction is not just our most 'tanky' in terms of self healing, it's also by far our most mobile spec. So much of our rotation is instant casts that you barely need to spend any time rooted. Complaining about Aff needing to GTFO is ridiculous, because that's just never going to be a problem; with all the self healing Burning Rush isn't nearly the burden it is to the other specs either.

Would you look at that, me, finding something positive.

[Livevil]

So could seed of corruption, you don't have a point here.

No other class is comparable to warlocks for self healing, but we can safely ignore this because it doesn't fit your narrative: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

Your whole argument is completely flawed and all over the place. For starters, that isn't healing but demon skin/soul leach absorb. In terms of raw survivability it's vastly inferior to 20% soul link of the past in supremacy builds, which never showed up as healing in meters.

Just like prot warriors spamming Ignore Pain
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...nt&class=Tanks

aren't rivaling healers in healing done
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

[Jacpierre]

So could seed of corruption, you don't have a point here.

No other class is comparable to warlocks for self healing, but we can safely ignore this because it doesn't fit your narrative: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

How is self healing relevant. That is such a skewed graph anyway. Affliction isn't even doing 45k hps. That is weak ass healing. Is it helpful on the raid? Sure. But not more helpful than a dps doing 100k more than an affliction lock. Also Hunters can turtle, Rogues can cloak and still dps. DKs can AMS. all classes have defensives that don't show up as "healing". Just because mine do doesn't mean I am some how a raid boss compared to others.

- - - Updated - - -

You're all missing that Affliction is not just our most 'tanky' in terms of self healing, it's also by far our most mobile spec. So much of our rotation is instant casts that you barely need to spend any time rooted. Complaining about Aff needing to GTFO is ridiculous, because that's just never going to be a problem; with all the self healing Burning Rush isn't nearly the burden it is to the other specs either.

Would you look at that, me, finding something positive.

So it is "tanky" which means nothing really, and it is "mobile". Demon Hunters/rogues/wars/feral are all pretty mobile. They also do a lot more damage. What exactly is your point.

All I'm reading is affliction shouldn't be good because reasons. Never did I say Affliction should top all meters. You though are the one that seems to think that they shouldn't be competitive at all, just because I can cast 2(3) dots with 15+ second durations while moving. Fire mages can cast a lot of shit while moving also you know.

[corebit]

The main issue with that is the fact that you're only thinking about raiding, for pvp what you're suggesting is heresy.

Not to mention you forgot the rest of the non raiders/pvpers , aka dungeons/ leveling and although I do agree balancing should always be done with the most competitive forms of both endgames I also cannot agree that class fantasy should be decided based on those endgames.

You do know that Blizzard can now balance PVP separately? PVP cannot be used as an excuse now for Affliction doing shit DPS.

As for dungeon/leveling, tanks get to mow down dozens of mobs at the same time with ease AND they get to solo dungeons as well. There are specs way more efficient than Affliction at those things yet Affliction is supposed to be balanced AKA punished for its self-healing?

[evertonbelmontt]

I think Affliction could use a buff to ST, yes.

They could buff Siphon Life, for instance. It's a talent, you won't be spamming it because it's no use on a target already with it, and if you need aoe you won't have it so it doesn't matter that your ST is high because you have good AoE (Afflic AoE is only amazing if the adds live too long or too much adds dies for SF to do some work).

Last week I linked one of my logs on Nythendra with Aff that I played "good" and got "ok" dmg and told what I thought about the spec on that encounter alone.
If you're progressing, here's the positives:

- A lot of freedom for movement (effigy specially makes so that all your GCD's are well used).
- Very tanky. I love this aspect of afflic. I suppose in mythics it won't come in handy because usually mythic one shots you, but for HC it's amazing.
- More forgivable spec, you can make some mistakes (except agony, that one sucks if you drop it).
- Less reliable on the perfect gear. At least for me, I have all stats balanced.
- Less reliable on addons compared to demon.

This week after buffs I went aff again and this is my log from Nythendra HC, same boss:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

All the pro players or hardcore are playing Demon/destro, so it doesn't mean much, but it's ranked 1 for now (first time I get that, so ofc i'm gonna share /wee)

Give the spec a try. It worked better for me because I don't have the ammount of haste I need to be comfortable playing demonology and my guild is your average semi hardcore guild, what I'm sure a lot of players here are too.
I'll try to go with Afflic on ursoc or dragons tomorrow, but it's gonna be our first HC kill (if we do kill them) so I don't expect to do great dps, but at least I'll make the learning curve much easier on healers.

But YES, it IS underperforming from what I can see. It's basically overshadowed by demon on ST and on cleave/PRIORITY (big reason afflic sucks, ramp too long) by destro. I'm not so sure about Afflic AoE on raids, wouldn't count on it, unless mythic needs sustained aoe.

[exarkunofpr]

I think Affliction could use a buff to ST, yes.

They could buff Siphon Life, for instance. It's a talent, you won't be spamming it because it's no use on a target already with it, and if you need aoe you won't have it so it doesn't matter that your ST is high because you have good AoE (Afflic AoE is only amazing if the adds live too long or too much adds dies for SF to do some work).

Last week I linked one of my logs on Nythendra with Aff that I played "good" and got "ok" dmg and told what I thought about the spec on that encounter alone.
If you're progressing, here's the positives:

- A lot of freedom for movement (effigy specially makes so that all your GCD's are well used).
- Very tanky. I love this aspect of afflic. I suppose in mythics it won't come in handy because usually mythic one shots you, but for HC it's amazing.
- More forgivable spec, you can make some mistakes (except agony, that one sucks if you drop it).
- Less reliable on the perfect gear. At least for me, I have all stats balanced.
- Less reliable on addons compared to demon.

This week after buffs I went aff again and this is my log from Nythendra HC, same boss:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

All the pro players or hardcore are playing Demon/destro, so it doesn't mean much, but it's ranked 1 for now (first time I get that, so ofc i'm gonna share /wee)

Give the spec a try. It worked better for me because I don't have the ammount of haste I need to be comfortable playing demonology and my guild is your average semi hardcore guild, what I'm sure a lot of players here are too.
I'll try to go with Afflic on ursoc or dragons tomorrow, but it's gonna be our first HC kill (if we do kill them) so I don't expect to do great dps, but at least I'll make the learning curve much easier on healers.

But YES, it IS underperforming from what I can see. It's basically overshadowed by demon on ST and on cleave/PRIORITY (big reason afflic sucks, ramp too long) by destro. I'm not so sure about Afflic AoE on raids, wouldn't count on it, unless mythic needs sustained aoe.

859! you got lucky with some drops, and it looks like you got the 2 set. Grats on the number 1!