Rising anti-refugee attacks ‘disgrace’ for Germany - Interior minister says

[baskev]

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/09...aiziere-Berlin



In a time when so many are losing faith in politicians, it's great to see that there are some in Germany making a stand for what is right.

No matter who you are, you must agree that these attacks must stop. It's time to look at more severe punishment of hate crimes before it gets out of hand!!

Totally agree with you. Really i do!!! But what i am about to say might no please you.

The problem with the refugee's and all the aggression against them has several reasons. Some are politicans fault, some are refugee's fault some are "native" people fault, and some are older immigrants fault. So why i do not agree with agression. The reasons ( witch i will state down below) has added tension witch cause more of these rises.

reasons ( from a dutch perspective):
- Politicians; promise all the groups ( refugee's, civilians etc) allot of things but never are clear in stuff, and never full any of the things they promise. This make's people unheard and act out.
Further more there are party's like marie la pen, geert wilders etc who are very very bad. And the only way other politicians fight them, is by taking the opposite stance against them. Leaving no options for people who think they are a little bit right.

- refugee's: Here again there are many problems. There are refugee's who are running from isis, or from being gay in a muslim country ( like iron etc). But also allot of fortune seekers. This makes the crisis even worse. Also not all of them are as open to western idea's. There have been several incidents in the netherlands. Where they had to separate gay refugee's from the rest because they where harassing them. Also allot of them do not want to stay in our country but go to UK, or germany etc. creating a bigger problem there. Also you have allot of refugee males who run alone, and when they are save get there family's here. If its not save where you are from...why leave your family there in the first place?

- Old immigrants: Allot of them ( at least here) are very well integrated, and we are accustom to them and like them. But there are also ones who after 20 or 30 years still haven not adapted. People who still do not speak dutch ( witch i understand :P) but also still behave like they are vicitims. And since the failed "coup" in turkey we see a decent group of turks harrasing turks who follow gullen or are kurds. Even go as far as harassing the media. This does not help. It only makes adolf wilders and people like him more right. But also they sometimes do not want to integrate.
per example:
I was "kindly" asked by a brother of a girl i like not try and date her. ( because i was not Moroccan ). She was even afraid of her brother so we did no see each other anymore.
And people sometimes say: yeah but you do not want foreigners in your country. Witch is falls we have a large group of Africans and Indonesians in our country and have no problem with them. ( hell 80% of my friends are half or full Indonesian)

- native's: aka white people. Here also lies a big problem. They get talked into fear by the media, politicians, even movies who often make them look bad. Also we have a large "redneck" portion of the people who are just to dump for words. Who say things without knowing what they are talking about. Who do not give people any chance at all. Who are always felt like they are not fully accepted by any politicians. And if someone like trump, wilders etc shouts in words they understand and think are right, ( even tough some are just super wrong) they feel in there right.
Also the economic crisis we had/have all the southern country's who are going bankrupt makes people more on edge.



My toughts:
- violence against anyone is stupid for any reason.
- refugee's are welcome, fortune seekers not ( later when there are almost no refugee's its okay again).
- a refugee must try its best to fit in. He does not have to accept everything. But he or she must except that they may exist in our country ( example gay people, they do not have to agree with them . just do not bother them)
- I think the media plays a big role in making it look like they ( refugee's) are so sad. Or are giving people on the other side to much attention ( positive). Rarely you see correct facts. ( per example a other subject: Ukraine, the east of Ukraine they are always talking about pro Russian Ukraine people. While its been said by people i know who come from there , who say its Russian speaking Chechnya who fight there).
- i think people like geert wilders and trump are no better then adolf hitler ( pretty much say the same things) .

[Stop Pretending]

That they should attempt to change government policy through the normal democratic process available to them, not through violence.

I'm confused here, as in the past you've stood by rioters, and saying their actions are because of being pushed to far. So in this case, they need to go through their democratic channels.

Mmm k. You're not a hypocrite.

[Kapadons]

White people dont like brown people? Color me surprised.

[Rennadrel]

That they should attempt to change government policy through the normal democratic process available to them, not through violence..



Sorry? What's this have to do with violence against refugees? Are you justifying race based revenge or something?

You mean the democratic process where the people in power can't get voted out until their terms are up? It's not like the German populace can just fire their government because they don't like their policies. The fact that there is no opposition party with any amount of power allows the government to get away with it, since any democratically elected government that obtains power through a majority vote, is not beholden nor can they be held accountable for their policies by anyone, even opposition parties. The opposition can't just collapse the ruling party unless by-elections wind up forcing the ruling party to lose all of their support, depending on how the electoral system works in Germany obviously.

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Chancellor Merkel was elected democratically. She has the right to make the choice.

So was Adolf Hitler. Just remember that not every person who gets elected is in it to protect the interests of the citizens, many are in it for their own glory and to serve their own ego's.

[Tennis]

HIV rates are also rising in Germany

Proof of this? Sounds like they need some targeted programs if this is the case.

[Radeghost]

Welcome in 2016 - where, defending yourself from people that want to kill you, rape your wife and convert your country to Islam by fire and sword, is considered a "disgrace".

Good luck, "disgraceful" Germans. Fight for your country while you still can. You're the host.


btw - if somebody from Syria has a child in Germany, the child is still not German. A mouse born in the shed is not a horse.

[Hooked]

Merkel is a disgrace for Germany.

[Ravenblade]

Stop accepting every goddamned refugee into your midst and the anti refugee violence will stop soon after. Only attacks on refugees get reported. They get a free pass to do every inhuman shit they damn well please. This has to stop.

First off, no, refugees do not get a free pass. Where did you get that from? It is definitely not true and never has been.

Anti-refugee violence is only one form of right-wing violence which has always existed. In fact especially the East of Germany has a long tradition of right-wing violence which goes as far back as the GDR times where the regime declared it a non-existent phenomenon simply because of its laissez-faire approach to rehabilitation of Nazis and their ideology. There were major incidents such as the attack on Zion church in East Berlin which were just swept under the rug by the central organs of the state. The administration of the reunited Germany was just too naive and thought reports and stories from East German police officers about lively and sometimes rampant right-wing extremism and mindsets were just some exaggerations or fiction. Violence against refugees is just a contemporary phenomenon and not a new dimension, the attacks in Hoyerswerda or Rostock-Lichtenhagen are still not forgotten and has hurt both regions immensely. It doesn't have its roots in those "goddamn refugees" but in the fact that a large part of the 17 million new Germans were never properly integrated into German society, just as those refugees aren't. It is ironic then to hear from people who just until a few years ago voted far left (in the hope to slowly restore the communist GDR) would now take it to the streets claiming those foreigners wouldn't respect their values. The refugees are just a valve for their anger and resentments, their fears, grudges and disappointments all the while drawing from a mindset that was always there.
Now of course there's also been rising sentiments in the West too but in my opinion it's a mix of a redirect of post-financial crisis grudges and grudges about the precarious state of integration (or lack thereof) in some regions which have been subjected to immigration before. Ironically the party which is giving those people a voice just piggybacks sentiments while having social policies which would give their own voters a heart attack if they finally got down to reading it.

[Hooked]

First off, no, refugees do not get a free pass. Where did you get that from? It is definitely not true and never has been.

Anti-refugee violence is only one form of right-wing violence which has always existed. In fact especially the East of Germany has a long tradition of right-wing violence which goes as far back as the GDR times where the regime declared it a non-existent phenomenon simply because of its laissez-faire approach to rehabilitation of Nazis and their ideology. There were major incidents such as the attack on Zion church in East Berlin which were just swept under the rug by the central organs of the state. The administration of the reunited Germany was just too naive and thought reports and stories from East German police officers about lively and sometimes rampant right-wing extremism and mindsets were just some exaggerations or fiction. Violence against refugees is just a contemporary phenomenon and not a new dimension, the attacks in Hoyerswerda or Rostock-Lichtenhagen are still not forgotten and has hurt both regions immensely. It doesn't have its roots in those "goddamn refugees" but in the fact that a large part of the 17 million new Germans were never properly integrated into German society, just as those refugees aren't. It is ironic then to hear from people who just until a few years ago voted far left (in the hope to slowly restore the communist GDR) would now take it to the streets claiming those foreigners wouldn't respect their values. The refugees are just a valve for their anger and resentments, their fears, grudges and disappointments all the while drawing from a mindset that was always there.
Now of course there's also been rising sentiments in the West too but in my opinion it's a mix of a redirect of post-financial crisis grudges and grudges about the precarious state of integration (or lack thereof) in some regions which have been subjected to immigration before. Ironically the party which is giving those people a voice just piggybacks sentiments while having social policies which would give their own voters a heart attack if they finally got down to reading it.

You're right they don't get a free pass, they get a pass paid for by taxpayers who had no say in the matter. Once again taxation without representation. The idiot globalist elitists never seem to learn from history of the western world. "Let them eat cake" because there is always a party with cake right?.

[Ravenblade]

You're right they don't get a free pass, they get a pass paid for by taxpayers who had no say in the matter. Once again taxation without representation. The idiot globalist elitists never seem to learn from history of the western world. "Let them eat cake" because there is always a party with cake right?.

They said the same about saving banks. It's the same people, the same anger, just redirected just this time against more soft targets since the hard targets were/are deemed out of reach for them. Once the refugee crisis is more or less resolved people will either resign or go back to their previous grudges. Globalism as a movement was vehemently opposed to as early as late nineties (just look up Attac) but then it was dismissed as radical leftist movement. Now that the fat years are over and it's too late the people wake up and want to undo and fix the problems. But in order to so they are targeting the lowest common denominator and hope that this will change and repair things. But it won't because these are not the ones pulling the strings, they are just as much as victims as any else not part of the 1%. But don't worry, people will learn that lesson too, once they notice they can't go back to ye olde closed-border national state because whomever they will vote into power will now ultimately have to listen to the established shadow-votership which are global corporations and institutions.

[Rennadrel]

First off, no, refugees do not get a free pass. Where did you get that from? It is definitely not true and never has been.

Anti-refugee violence is only one form of right-wing violence which has always existed. In fact especially the East of Germany has a long tradition of right-wing violence which goes as far back as the GDR times where the regime declared it a non-existent phenomenon simply because of its laissez-faire approach to rehabilitation of Nazis and their ideology. There were major incidents such as the attack on Zion church in East Berlin which were just swept under the rug by the central organs of the state. The administration of the reunited Germany was just too naive and thought reports and stories from East German police officers about lively and sometimes rampant right-wing extremism and mindsets were just some exaggerations or fiction. Violence against refugees is just a contemporary phenomenon and not a new dimension, the attacks in Hoyerswerda or Rostock-Lichtenhagen are still not forgotten and has hurt both regions immensely. It doesn't have its roots in those "goddamn refugees" but in the fact that a large part of the 17 million new Germans were never properly integrated into German society, just as those refugees aren't. It is ironic then to hear from people who just until a few years ago voted far left (in the hope to slowly restore the communist GDR) would now take it to the streets claiming those foreigners wouldn't respect their values. The refugees are just a valve for their anger and resentments, their fears, grudges and disappointments all the while drawing from a mindset that was always there.
Now of course there's also been rising sentiments in the West too but in my opinion it's a mix of a redirect of post-financial crisis grudges and grudges about the precarious state of integration (or lack thereof) in some regions which have been subjected to immigration before. Ironically the party which is giving those people a voice just piggybacks sentiments while having social policies which would give their own voters a heart attack if they finally got down to reading it.

Funny, didn't I just read the the other week that there are over half a million denied refugees in Germany who haven't been reported.?

[Ravenblade]

Funny, didn't I just read the the other week that there are over half a million denied refugees in Germany who haven't been reported.?

Perhaps learning the difference between refugee, asylum seeker and immigrant helps. People are liberally using these terms as if they are all the same but they are not. What were denied were not refugees but asylum seekers primarily coming from Balkan countries and Turkey. These people were economic migrants at best or looking for improved social benefits at worst. Not everyone seeking asylum in Germany is a refugee, not everyone who wants to immigrate is a refugee or an asylum seeker.

[Slant]

Beautiful to see Germans taking back their country. I hope in the end they hold politicians like Merkel responsible and we start seeing some lengthy jail terms at the very least.

Jesus F. Christ... What does a nation have to do to show you racism is bad? If killing 6 million people won't do it, I don't know what will. Take Germany back? Seriously? The last time we did that, everyone else shat in their pants...

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I think its pointless to tell a guy like you theres a difference between national-socialism and nationalism.
To you, anyone who disagrees with your idiotic opinions is a nazi.


That aside, Merkel is a traitor imo, traitors to a nation should take the most brutal punishment available in the law, and laws can change.

Neurenberg or not if far right comes into power there will be a trial for all traitors out there, make no mistake.

Of course you don't realise that the "socialism" part is the redundant bit. The nationalism part is the dangerous bit. It's the evil twin brother of patriotism. You know, the one that's a pathological killer. And people who talk about "nationalism" like you do? They usually are nazis... I've yet to be proven wrong. Show me a left-nationalist and I'll admit defeat.

I won't even go into your weird sense of what a "traitor" is. She's the head of the state, quite the opposite of a traitor, but go ahead... tell me how Merkel got into power almost 10 years ago to betray the country now. It'll be an amusing read if nothing else...

Btw, it's Nuremberg if you prefer the English spelling.

[Vorkreist]

If you really believe that you should re-read history books.


No, he isn't.

Yesterday a mayor was attacked.
Some months ago one was almost assassinated.
This week we had the bombing of a mosque.

There is a difference between riots and right-out terrorist attacks.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Damn white terrorists daring to defend their shit from the ISIS infested swarms of rapeugees that you try so hard to defend.

infracted - Forbidden Topics

[Slant]

Question is though, how is she still in power? Are people electing her back or..

Cause if the process is honest and democratic, you cant really call her a traitor (unless she went completely against her promises).

She's mostly still in power because... at the end of the day, the voter doesn't care for billions debts here, million refugees there, army deployment in afghanistan... what they care about are mundane things: Where will I get my teeth fixed, how much will it cost, will health care improve? How much tax disappears from my paycheck, how many toys can I buy?

Things like that. And as long as things look as stable and comfortable as they are now, and make no mistake, they look pretty fucking awesome from inside Germany, refugees or not, there is no reason not to reelect her. See, unlike other places, we've not yet caught on the whole reality tv election program. We're a bit old fashioned in where we actually look at what people say and do instead of what their PR managers try to sell them as. And the SPD has a pretty hard time topping "Keeping Germany's economy running at full steam while everyone else around us is fucked up economically".

[Vorkreist]

She's mostly still in power because... at the end of the day, the voter doesn't care for billions debts here, million refugees there, army deployment in afghanistan... what they care about are mundane things: Where will I get my teeth fixed, how much will it cost, will health care improve? How much tax disappears from my paycheck, how many toys can I buy?

Things like that. And as long as things look as stable and comfortable as they are now, and make no mistake, they look pretty fucking awesome from inside Germany, refugees or not, there is no reason not to reelect her. See, unlike other places, we've not yet caught on the whole reality tv election program. We're a bit old fashioned in where we actually look at what people say and do instead of what their PR managers try to sell them as. And the SPD has a pretty hard time topping "Keeping Germany's economy running at full steam while everyone else around us is fucked up economically".

You need to see a doctor. You are almost as delusional as Kangodo, creating alternate realities inside your head and then preaching stupid shit online.

[Ryme]

He's right, it is a disgrace. But it was fucking inevitable from a mass uncontrolled immigration from such ideologically opposing regions.

Disclaimer for those who read too much into posts: I'm not condoning, I'm saying this was obviously going to happen.

[Slant]

You need to see a doctor. You are almost as delusional as Kangodo, creating alternate realities inside your head and then preaching stupid shit online.

Says who? Because what I described is pretty much the sumary of why people vote shit here. I haven't thought this up myself, I've repeated what people told me why they voted this way or that way. You know, lawyers, people working at German TV broadcasters... respectable people, not internet nazi rabble ranting on a forum. But go ahead and call me crazy, I love it when you guys do that... it's cute.

[Ravenblade]

Jesus F. Christ... What does a nation have to do to show you racism is bad? If killing 6 million people won't do it, I don't know what. Take Germany back? Seriously? The last time we did that, everyone else shat in their pants...

Don't get too angry about them. It's some 2nd-amendmentists believing their key ideology applies to all countries when it doesn't even work in their own country any more as any attempt to do so ends up in being routed by Feds.

In all seriousness though if it were about taking back the country in a form of paramilitary reconquest then people wouldn't resort to vigilante tactics against low class targets. Instead they would aim higher but that's what these people are not only too afraid of but they are also not very smart enough to execute anything more complex than throwing a molotov cocktail. The goals of these people are much more local than anything. When organized national campaigns such as *gida end up in a split and in feuds over whose persona is more worth to be worshipped then unorganized local campaigns becoming part of a wider and national grassroot campaign is something that has an even less chance for happening.

[Slant]

He's right, it is a disgrace. But it was fucking inevitable from a mass uncontrolled immigration from such ideologically opposing regions.

Disclaimer for those who read too much into posts: I'm not condoning, I'm saying this was obviously going to happen.

It wasn't obvious. And if people like these wouldn't hype up the topic, it wouldn't have happened. See, the funny bit is... you don't actually notice the refugees. I've once driven around for close to 2h trying to find one of the refugee centres to prove something for this forum, and I knew the adress kinda. Didn't find it. Let me tell you from someone experiencing this first hand, they are not a problem. The people opposing them are a problem. The domestic terrorists trying to drive a wedge between the far right and its home society are a problem. The refugees themselves? Not a problem at all.

Heck, only recently I've found those refugee centres. One of them is across the street from my workplace. It's been there for half a year before someone told me it's where those refugees are. The other one is on my drive home. In an industrial zone, right behind a trucker company. And for some reason, they have hot chicks running around there, too. Too bad summer is over...

So no, it's not a disgrace at all. What is a disgrace is the shift to the right and attacks on mayors for trying to do something good. Ideology doesn't even come into play here, every refugee that I've seen, literally EVERY ONE OF THEM, is keeping their head down and doesn't cause any trouble. I'm more irritated at professional Romanian beggar outfits than any refugees. I would tell you to look at their faces, but you can't. Trust me, they're not here to revolt. It's easy to get angry or afraid if you look at pictures of masked terrorists yelling arabic phrases. It's quite hard to get angry or afraid at someone half my size peacefully sitting outside my workplace smoking a cigarette between language classes.

What's a disgrace is that we all know that ignorance begets fear, which begets hate and yet some people willingly walk into humanity's biggest weakness. All over again.

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Don't get too angry about them. It's some 2nd-amendmentists believing their key ideology applies to all countries when it doesn't even work in their own country any more as any attempt to do so ends up in being routed by Feds.

In all seriousness though if it were about taking back the country in a form of paramilitary reconquest then people wouldn't resort to vigilante tactics against low class targets. Instead they would aim higher but that's what these people are not only too afraid of but they are also not very smart enough to execute anything more complex than throwing a molotov cocktail. The goals of these people are much more local than anything. When organized national campaigns such as *gida end up in a split and in feuds over whose persona is more worth to be worshipped then unorganized local campaigns becoming part of a wider and national grassroot campaign is something that has an even less chance for happening.

Between you and me... these are drunk locals having a bit of "fun". I can just imagine a group of youths getting drunk one night and one of them having this typical bright drunk idea, let's smash something up... and they do, and poof, you have a big headline talking about ideology, religion, Merkel's mistakes... just because three or four people got wasted and smashed shit up. Like that's a new thing... I bet the next day when they had to go to work with a hangover they didn't even care half as much about refugees or not.