"No way back, Sweden will never be what it was"

[Deleted]

So the new york times doesnt know what its talking about either? Interesting.

Googling the image gives me this: "Migrants from African countries at a hostel in Kandalaksha, Russia, waiting to cross into Finland. The use of the Arctic route to the EU by refugees and migrants has added anxiety, not to mention intrigue, to a crisis that is tearing the bloc apart.".

[May90]

Sure, that's a problem too. There's plenty of places up north but almost nobody wants to live there, not even Swedes. You can get pretty cheap houses up there, if you want to have like 1 hour to your closest neighbour by car and maybe even more to a store. Need help from the police? Forget about them arriving in time to help you, it will take them hours. In some places they might only have one patrol for a very large area. House caught on fire? No firefighters will ever be able to reach you in time before it's burnt to the ground since they are hours away from you.

You are pretty much on your own in those cheap places up there.

Well, it is still muuuuuuch-muuuuuch better than living in a warzone: at least, your life isn't really threatened there, for the most part. So I'd say it is a good option for refugee housing.

[Deleted]

Well, it is still muuuuuuch-muuuuuch better than living in a warzone: at least, your life isn't really threatened there, for the most part. So I'd say it is a good option for refugee housing.

Have you seen how refugees have reacted when they find out they're being sent north? They refuse to get off the busses. They starve themselves in protest to the conditions there. They don't want to live there, not even for the time it takes to process their application.

[nextormento]

What's with the "left/right" obsession on these forums? Come on, folks, it is a bit more complicated than two straw manned terms.

Why would you care: they're social constructs subject to every kind of pedantic relativism.

It's no obsession though. It's just an observation that the American right-wing is not going through their best moments.
But, ey!, feel free to pretend not to care, when you bite into every single one of those schisms. It amuses me.

:]

[May90]

Have you seen how refugees have reacted when they find out they're being sent north? They refuse to get off the busses. They starve themselves in protest to the conditions there. They don't want to live there.

I don't think it should be up to them to choose though. They've applied for asylum, the government has reacted by providing them safety - the only thing refugees are after. If they don't want it, then, I'd say, they are free to look for asylum elsewhere.

Heck, compared to my life 5 years ago, I would willingly go live on the north of Sweden. And I am far from a refugee. Those who refuse to exit buses, probably, aren't much of asylum seekers.

Why would you care: they're social constructs subject to every kind of pedantic relativism.

It's no obsession though. It's just an observation that the American right-wing is not going through their best moments.
But, ey!, feel free to pretend not to care, when you bite into every single one of those schisms. It amuses me.

:]

I care about them solely for the purpose of entertainment though.

[Hell-Nicø]

So the new york times doesnt know what its talking about either? Interesting.

OF COURSE THE NEW YORK TIME DONT KNOW WHAT ITS TALKING ABOUT !
ARE YOU FOR REAL MAN ?

They are pushing the same fucking agenda as all the fucking american media.

They show you a picture with BLACK PEOPLE and tell you they are Syrian, and you FUCKING BELIEVE THEM!


How fucking stupid are you ?

[Deleted]

I don't think it should be up to them to choose though. They've applied for asylum, the government has reacted by providing them safety - the only thing refugees are after. If they don't want it, then, I'd say, they are free to look for asylum elsewhere.

Heck, compared to my life 5 years ago, I would willingly go live on the north of Sweden. And I am far from a refugee. Those who refuse to exit buses, probably, aren't much of asylum seekers.

I think you're underestimating what it's like up there. Refugees should not live in a storage-like condition where the only thing they are doing is waiting for their application to be processed, which with the current backlog can take close to a year. We don't even keep prisoners in such conditions.

Nice place to go hiking for some days but I wouldn't live there even if I was paid for it. There's a reason why most of the population lives in central and southern Sweden.

[nextormento]

But to get back on topic, this is a poor reason to refuse to help refugees.

We could write for hours as to why we're failing to absorb migration to the cities. I would put my finger on markets, rather than zoning (and much less on the code, which is an standard that needs to go up)

Regardless, that much I can agree with: it's no excuse. But Sweden, of all places, is not refusing help, though. And they must be careful with what systems they're straining.

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I care about them solely for the purpose of entertainment though.

I guess it's the very same reason I keep responding to you. Not sure. /shrug
:]

[May90]

I think you're underestimating what it's like up there. Refugees should not live in a storage-like condition where the only thing they are doing is waiting for their application to be processed, which with the current backlog can take close to a year. We don't even keep prisoners in such conditions.

Nice place to go hiking for some days but I wouldn't live there even if I was paid for it. There's a reason why most of the population lives in central and southern Sweden.

Fair enough, I guess. I still see refusing such housing as a refugee wrong though. As an asylum applicant, you aren't looking for luxury, you are looking for a safe place to stay until either the situation at home resolves, or you are granted a legal status in the new country. Depends on the specifics, of course; I imagine some housing options in the middle of nowhere would be terrible even for a refugee.

Like this; doesn't look very appealing:

[Deleted]

Fair enough, I guess. I still see refusing such housing as a refugee wrong though. As an asylum applicant, you aren't looking for luxury, you are looking for a safe place to stay until either the situation at home resolves, or you are granted a legal status in the new country. Depends on the specifics, of course; I imagine some housing options in the middle of nowhere would be terrible even for a refugee.

Like this; doesn't look very appealing:

I don't think it's wrong. It's understandable. Northern Sweden is a very depressing place if you're not the type of person who like such places. During winters it's almost dark all the time, sun rises at 8 am and sets at 3 pm.

[May90]

I don't think it's wrong. It's understandable. Northern Sweden is a very depressing place if you're not the type of person who like such places. During winters you never really see the sun.

It is definitely understandable, I agree. I just don't think it is morally right to refuse such housing when the country is already helping you a lot for free and when your goal of reaching a safe place has already been achieved. Then, again, everyone has their own morals.

[Moon-Man]

https://www.rt.com/viral/360019-swed...video-swedish/


Pretty neat ye? Check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LAwJDA_DB0

A country that was cucked to death.



As a migrant to Australia, I HAD to adapt to THEIR culture, like those refugees should be doing as well.

[ImpTaimer]

This thread is full of armchair statistics junkies with no common sense.

You don't replace people with more people if there was already too many people in the first place. Population dispersion DOESN'T WORK and just wastes resources and harms "the planet".

If technology replaces a job that required a person or animal, you don't need that animal or person for that job anymore. Money is finite, even with a fiat system. That's reality.

Japan's education system already fully prepares their citizens for general living, both self and social. Anyone worrying about their future has no idea what's good for Japan.

The education system in most other countries are a joke because they value what businesses value. America is no different. It's kinda sad that only recently are political officials in America bothering to mandate Civics. Real Civics, not the wacko liberal shitheads projecting their nonsense onto kids like in Commiefornia and like-minded spoiled states/counties that leech of the success of their own country.

--SKIP HERE FOR ON-TOPIC--

If refugees and immigrants will not assimilate themselves into the culture then they can go back to the shithole they came from AND STAY THERE. I'm tired of this bullshit crackpot globalism hypocrisy. Everyone isn't going to turn into North Korea or "Hitler" if they refuse globalism. Everyone lets North Korea exist because it would be hypocritical to force them out of existence. If someone is happy living as a "caveman" than that's their choice as long as they don't start forcing other people to do the same. Don't go to a fucking country and shit all over them and not expect to get shit on (plz no India jokes).

However, North Korea WILL turn into another "Hitler" if we try to force refugees onto them and then starve their economy "globally". Hell even Japan will, I guarantee it.

As far as housing crisis--It exists mainly because of people hoarding realestate and trying to rent out the property by artificially inflating its value, much like economic crisis is created due to people hoarding wealth by bleeding an area dry and moving onto the next while refusing to pay taxes and then "loaning" people money at an inflated interest rate. Fucking oligopolies.

However, it also exists because immigrants/refugees can't seem to stop using children and starvation as blackmail. The genuine victims are piece of hay in a needlestack.

The entirety of the Middle East is solely responsible for the current mass immigration problem, but nobody will hold them responsible so long as they get payed off by whichever rich sultan. Seriously fuck fossil fuel dependency. If there's so much fucking money/oil in the Middle East why are people mass-immigrating out of it? The same reason companies are throwing jobs overseas. To avoid growing up and facing reality.

ISIS is worse than Hitler and has a higher bodycount. Media is spinning this shit harder than Jewish people were the Holocaust (that they caused). But the world isn't jumping in to snuff ISIS out of existence because some rich fucking asshole living in bum-fuck nowhere desert is hoarding oil (and causing the crisis). If only Hitler had vast quantities of oil to bribe countries with.

"Oh no, North Korea is presumably testing nuclear bombs! Let's forget about active bombings and missile launches happening against unarmed citizens, or Russia still trying to take over Ukraine!"

[Moon-Man]

Hm they forgot to add the usual claim that if you don't feel 100 % ok with the new Sweden you are a racist/xenophobe/islamophobe etc.

I am not 100% ok with Swedens situation. If they want to come into to a country, they better damn well adapt to THEIR culture to begin with.

racist/xenophobe/islamophobe has lost their meaning, its an overused terms for Modern-age Liberals to have a justification to be retarded in public.

Truly amazing how modern age liberals loves to look like a bunch of brainless retards. Look at those toxic Feminists movement, especially with the video of a guy being sarcastic(?) about his name Hugh Mungus. That bitch flipped so hard, and was so fucking unreasonably retarded. People like her makes women look bad, you know. Same thing with BLMs, even Morgan Freeman doesn't approve of BLM.

[Wells]

I feel like the problem here is not that housing isn't being built fast enough, but, rather, that it is hard to distribute such high arrival flows among the built places.

Yeah I mean there's no system that will make housing this many people smooth or easy. That said, I find citing the housing market as a reason to let refugees go on their own to be kind of ridiculous.

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We could write for hours as to why we're failing to absorb migration to the cities. I would put my finger on markets, rather than zoning (and much less on the code, which is an standard that needs to go up)
:]

If there's a multiyear wait for apartments, as some have claimed, then I have a hard time believing its just the market not responding that's causing the shortage.

[Gref]

@ImpTaimer I like your narrative. I really do. Especially the sentence that starts with "But the world isn't jumping..."

[Deleted]

If there's a multiyear wait for apartments, as some have claimed, then I have a hard time believing its just the market not responding that's causing the shortage.

That the market doesn't respond is incorrect. In fact, we haven't built as much as we have now since the 70s. The problem with our housing crisis comes down to a lot of things, but most would agree that the primary reason is bureacracy which makes construction very expensive. You simply can't make a profit off newly-produced buildings if you have a rent that a student or asylum seeker can afford because of all the laws you have to follow.

So really, when people argue that refugees shouldn't be let in because they're making the housing crisis worse that's not true - more refugees do indeed mean more housing required. On the other hand, students and low-income families would still not be able to afford housing simply because of bureaucratic costs of construction.

[Wells]

That the market doesn't respond is incorrect. In fact, we haven't built as much as we have now since the 70s. The problem with our housing crisis comes down to a lot of things, but most would agree that the primary reason is bureacracy which makes construction very expensive. You simply can't make a profit off newly-produced buildings if you have a rent that a student or asylum seeker can afford because of all the laws you have to follow.

So really, when people argue that refugees shouldn't be let in because they're making the housing crisis worse that's not true - more refugees do indeed mean more housing required. On the other hand, students and low-income families would still not be able to afford housing simply because of bureaucratic costs of construction.

Its basically the same thing all over the developed world's cities. NIMBYism and misplaced priorities fuck with housing.

[Deleted]

Its basically the same thing all over the developed world's cities. NIMBYism and misplaced priorities fuck with housing.

Misplaced priorities indeed. In Sweden we have a law that the living room has to be at least 20 m^2 in houses where 4 people live. 20 m^2! I think low-income families could give less of a shit about even having a living room at all as long as they can get out of their parents' home...

[Wells]

Misplaced priorities indeed. In Sweden we have a law that the living room has to be at least 20 m^2 in houses where 4 people live. 20 m^2! I think low-income families could give less of a shit about even having a living room at all as long as they can get out of their parents' home...

Yeah in Seattle the government is waaaaay too concerned about historical buildings. I'm all for preserving history, but not at the expense of people affording their rent.