How can people say now that Sylvanas isnt evil ?

[Balinus]

I know that there are TONS of threads discussing this. But with new lore, i can make my case. And, if im wrong, please correct me.
Now we know what Sylvanas has been doin in Stormheim, she made a pact with Helya [ clearly evil ] to bind/control the Val'kyr queen, if im not wrong, to HELYA control her. Then Sylvanas would have an endless supply of val'kyr and be pratically imortal. So she wants to defeat a force of good, helping a force of evil, because she is more important than everyone else? Tell me when any in the Alliance did something like that man!

[Darth-Piekus]

Do you want to know what Sylvannas does in Stormheim?

She is giving her Free Will to Helya (wink wink nudge nudge).

[AmethystRockstar]

Because evil is subjective.

[KrazyK923]

She is giving her Free Will to Helya (wink wink nudge nudge).

I think this has become one of my favorite descriptions of the whole thing.

Along with:

"Damn Sylvanas hasn't been THIS owned since Arthas."

[Zulkhan]

It's more about the fact that she has indeed reasons to do what she does and less about the fact that what she does is nice. Because most of what she did wasn't. Ever.

But some people can't apparently accept that just because she's quite a messed up character she doesn't need to do something comically evil for the sake of justifying a raid spot.

[Deleted]

It's more about the fact that she has indeed reasons to do what she does and less about the fact that what she does is nice. Because most of what she did wasn't. Ever.

But some people can't apparently accept that just because she's quite a messed up character she doesn't need to do something comically evil for the sake of justifying a raid spot.

i do accept the fact that she is not some evil master seeking the destruction of everything. but go on the other thread in general and watch horde players how bad they are talking about people who are happy that greymane FOR O-N-C-E got some short of victory and want to deny him EVEN THAT. it's atrocious and i am shocked honestly. some people say he is gonna die, that he failed so hard killing her, that he was so stupid, that he got down with one arrow and that he lives only because sylvanas says so. that it's laugable if you think he was victorious. what the fuck? when genn got his ass kicked countless times by sylvanas and forsaken everything was okay but it's not okay for him to actually win something against them? i don't get the blind hate man. i just don't. and i'm refering to people from both sides.

and the point was not to kill her. he ruined her plans 100%.

[Deleted]

It's more about the fact that she has indeed reasons to do what she does and less about the fact that what she does is nice. Because most of what she did wasn't. Ever.

But some people can't apparently accept that just because she's quite a messed up character she doesn't need to do something comically evil for the sake of justifying a raid spot.

Her motivation is pretty good though. She might be selfish and be doing evil things, but she doesn't want to die. She's desperate, and desperate people do crazy things.
It's more motivation than Gul'dan has.

[Balinus]

Because evil is subjective.

Actually it is not, when u do things that is good for you and bad to others, u are evil. When u dont put your needs in first place, and tery to help other people, u are good. It is simple as that.

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i do accept the fact that she is not some evil master seeking the destruction of everything. but go on the other thread in general and watch horde players how bad they are talking about people who are happy that greymane FOR O-N-C-E got some short of victory and want to deny him EVEN THAT. it's atrocious and i am shocked honestly. some people say he is gonna die, that he failed so hard killing her, that he was so stupid, that he got down with one arrow and that he lives only because sylvanas says so. that it's laugable if you think he was victorious. what the fuck? when genn got his ass kicked countless times by sylvanas and forsaken everything was okay but it's not okay for him to actually win something against them? i don't get the blind hate man. i just don't. and i'm refering to people from both sides.

and the point was not to kill her. he ruined her plans 100%.

Totally agree with you.

[Zulkhan]

i do accept the fact that she is not some evil master seeking the destruction of everything. but go on the other thread in general and watch horde players how bad they are talking about people who are happy that greymane FOR O-N-C-E got some short of victory and want to deny him EVEN THAT. it's atrocious and i am shocked honestly. some people say he is gonna die, that he failed so hard killing her, that he was so stupid, that he got down with one arrow and that he lives only because sylvanas says so. that it's laugable if you think he was victorious. what the fuck? when genn got his ass kicked countless times by sylvanas and forsaken everything was okay but it's not okay for him to actually win something against them? i don't get the blind hate man. i just don't. and i'm refering to people from both sides.

and the point was not to kill her. he ruined her plans 100%.

All these things could be said of Sylvanas indeed. I mean, none of them looked incredibly smart. But Genn definitely outsmarted Sylvanas there, he fought with the clear intention to ruin her plan and he succeeded. Pros to him.

And I like the fact that, in the end, what Genn really wanted to achieve was denying her a future like she did with his son. No particularly good intentions, just a bitter thirst of vengeance to sate. He's really a great counterbalance for Sylvanas.

[Magnagarde]

The people that do so lower the ethics bar in order to have her fit where they want, disregarding the character's actions that say more than mere fanboyism. They just play themselves by setting up a fraudulent system of what is right and what is wrong, but if they're having fun doing so, then Blizzard achieved their goal.

[Balinus]

Her motivation is pretty good though. She might be selfish and be doing evil things, but she doesn't want to die. She's desperate, and desperate people do crazy things.
It's more motivation than Gul'dan has.

Just because she is desperate, doesnt mean her actions arent evil.

[AmethystRockstar]

i do accept the fact that she is not some evil master seeking the destruction of everything. but go on the other thread in general and watch horde players how bad they are talking about people who are happy that greymane FOR O-N-C-E got some short of victory and want to deny him EVEN THAT. it's atrocious and i am shocked honestly. some people say he is gonna die, that he failed so hard killing her, that he was so stupid, that he got down with one arrow and that he lives only because sylvanas says so. that it's laugable if you think he was victorious. what the fuck? when genn got his ass kicked countless times by sylvanas and forsaken everything was okay but it's not okay for him to actually win something against them? i don't get the blind hate man. i just don't. and i'm refering to people from both sides.

and the point was not to kill her. he ruined her plans 100%.

Okay but ruining her plans totally screws over the Forsaken, so to the Forsaken Genn is pretty evil. In fact, I could turn this whole thing around and say "How can people say now that Genn isn't evil?" and the answer is the same, it's subjective. Only no one argues that Genn is evil, or at least haven't in the past. But people have always argued that Sylvanas is evil so really it seems you are just upset that Genn is subjectively a pretty bad dude now.

[Balinus]

Genn isnt evil. The whole fight between Gilneas x Forsaken started when Sylvanas attacked Gilneas. DOESNT MATTER IF IT WAS BECAUSE GARROSH ORDERED, SHE OBEYED, by obeying she had advanteges, and also disavanteges. She is responsible for everything bad that happened during the war between them.

[Traveler Voltin]

Genn isnt evil. The whole fight between Gilneas x Forsaken started when Sylvanas attacked Gilneas. DOESNT MATTER IF IT WAS BECAUSE GARROSH ORDERED, SHE OBEYED, by obeying she had advanteges, and also disavanteges. She is responsible for everything bad that happened during the war between them.

Sylvanas was in northrend still when the invasion of gilneas started.

[Raetary]

DOESNT MATTER IF IT WAS BECAUSE GARROSH ORDERED, SHE OBEYED

she obeyed because she had to, if she didnt garrosh would've turned undercity into kor'kron mania.
and she didnt even start it at all, she was in ice crown when garrosh starting throwing forsaken into gilneas, she took over when she came back and finished the bitchfest garrosh had to start.

[Akka]

How can people say now that Sylvanas isnt evil ?

The same reason people ignore all criticism and manage to invent the most convoluted excuses to defend what they want to : fanboyism.

[AmethystRockstar]

Genn isnt evil. The whole fight between Gilneas x Forsaken started when Sylvanas attacked Gilneas. DOESNT MATTER IF IT WAS BECAUSE GARROSH ORDERED, SHE OBEYED, by obeying she had advanteges, and also disavanteges. She is responsible for everything bad that happened during the war between them.

Wait so your saying that because something bad happened to Genn and his people beforehand, he's excused from being considered evil? Reminds me of a certain Banshee Queen.

[Balinus]

she obeyed because she had to, if she didnt garrosh would've turned undercity into kor'kron mania.
and she didnt even start it at all, she was in ice crown when garrosh starting throwing forsaken into gilneas, she took over when she came back and finished the bitchfest garrosh had to start.

Like i said, her choices have consequences. She could just ignore Garrosh's orders. Then u say that she would be done for. But tell me......what did Vol'jin did? He didnt obbeyed Garrosh because he knew that guy was evil. He prefered to die honorable, than serve him. That is the diference betwen good and evil that i said earlier.

[AmethystRockstar]

Like i said, her choices have consequences. She could just ignore Garrosh's orders. Then u say that she would be done for. But tell me......what did Vol'jin did? He didnt obbeyed Garrosh because he knew that guy was evil. He prefered to die honorable, than serve him. That is the diference betwen good and evil that i said earlier.

Vol'jin, like all members of the Horde, DID serve Garrosh. After Garrosh attempted to assassinate Vol'jin is when the Darkspear Rebellion began. Which Sylvanas participated in, mind you.

[Traveler Voltin]

Like i said, her choices have consequences. She could just ignore Garrosh's orders. Then u say that she would be done for. But tell me......what did Vol'jin did? He didnt obbeyed Garrosh because he knew that guy was evil. He prefered to die honorable, than serve him. That is the diference betwen good and evil that i said earlier.

Vol'jin despite hating Garrosh, still helped him. Until his hand was forced.
Every race in the horde was forced to help garrosh or face being wiped out.