People overvaluing themselves

[Jayman29]

My guild pugs a 2/4/9. We can fill about half the raid on some nights and get the other half from group finder. The first week EN came out was 6/7 for us. That felt good and the raid filled up rather quickly.

This week was odd, we set up the raid on Thursday night and no one was signing up. Sure, it was Thursday and we were starting a new clear but I was confused on why 40+ mins netted only 2 people that ended up leaving.

My guildmate switched the raid to heroic and we got the group filled in 10 mins.

Now I will explain the theory I have.

We don't put an ilvl restriction so anyone can sign up.

Normal got no one, not even low ilvl characters.
Heroic got 845+ people. We recruited 853s and up. Here is the catch, those 850s should be running normals. The recommended ilvl for heroic is 860.
NOT 1 860 signed up. NOT 1.

So, I think this is what is happening. People see 850+ ilvl on their character tab and go "oh, normal only drops 850 ilvl, im too good for it".
Don't overvalue your ilvl. Just because your ilvl is 850 doesn't mean every single piece you have is 850. You could have a 860 or 870 from the world boss or a legendary in one slot. You can still get gear from normal.

Just my theory on what people are thinking when they sign up. Wanted to see others thoughts. Don't rude, be constructive. Be civil

[Patoneil94]

Except 860 is not at all needed for heroic, and ilvl is a terrible way to judge how good a player is/how well built their character is.

[jaimelannister]

860 is quite high at this point in the expansion, and aside from people already in Heroic-clearing and Mythic progression guilds, you're not likely to find a ton of people over 860, so I wouldn't read too much into it. I think you should put a min ilvl on your Normal runs at around 840 and you should be fine.

[Tonyman64]

850s shouldn't really be running normals, for precisely the reason you dismiss at the end of your post. There was a post shortly before EN opened asking what ilvl people recommended for the various difficulties and the consensus was 835/840 was plenty for normals, lower if you have competent people/ are in a good guild group. Add 15 ilvls onto that for heroic, because that's the ilvl difference, and you get 850/855 for heroic pugs.

[Bytch]

lmao @ thinking 860 is needed or required for H EN. We' started H EN at 830ish for most of our group and have cleared it. But for the most part, you're looking for 840+ for heroic EN.

[Orange Joe]

My guild pugs a 2/4/9. We can fill about half the raid on some nights and get the other half from group finder. The first week EN came out was 6/7 for us. That felt good and the raid filled up rather quickly.

This week was odd, we set up the raid on Thursday night and no one was signing up. Sure, it was Thursday and we were starting a new clear but I was confused on why 40+ mins netted only 2 people that ended up leaving.

My guildmate switched the raid to heroic and we got the group filled in 10 mins.

Now I will explain the theory I have.

We don't put an ilvl restriction so anyone can sign up.

Normal got no one, not even low ilvl characters.
Heroic got 845+ people. We recruited 853s and up. Here is the catch, those 850s should be running normals. The recommended ilvl for heroic is 860.
NOT 1 860 signed up. NOT 1.

So, I think this is what is happening. People see 850+ ilvl on their character tab and go "oh, normal only drops 850 ilvl, im too good for it".
Don't overvalue your ilvl. Just because your ilvl is 850 doesn't mean every single piece you have is 850. You could have a 860 or 870 from the world boss or a legendary in one slot. You can still get gear from normal.

Just my theory on what people are thinking when they sign up. Wanted to see others thoughts. Don't rude, be constructive. Be civil

If normal drops 850 heroic is tuned for 850 gear. This is how wow has always done it.

[dacoolist]

Normal can titanforge now too, so you can get beast pieces out or normal as well. Also, mythic/myth+ dungeons are pretty sweet. The first boss, pretty much anyone could down on heroic with the right dps (maybe 180k) - but the rest require decent groups for heroic for sure.

Most heroic groups require 855 for pugs, plus at least a full clear of normal/also including to know the entire fight on heroic.. so, yeah 855 to ME is heroic ready with a normal clear/knowing the fights on heroic by looking them up

[Bytch]

@ 860+ ilvl you should be in M EN.

[Valrok]

It's probably more that running Normal is kind of a waste time if you're 845+ because there won't be many upgrades due to having M/M+ dungeon gear

Heroic gear is the same ilvl as M+10 so people much more interested

[Propainn]

Hey I could be 855-860 if I kept all my shit cirt/haste gear. You want a warr at 860 that does garbo DPS, or one at 850 that dumps on your guild's logs?

You need to stop overvaluing your raid, and what you're entitled to expect in your group. I mean, even someone in full N EN gear, with an 890 weapon, and a legendary would be 855 (assuming no WF gear). Sounds like you just want to be carried by those that hit the titanforged RNG lotto. Just pay for an AoTC carry if you want it that bad.

Oh btw...WTS AoTC Xavius PST

[noctred]

Heroic got 845+ people. We recruited 853s and up. Here is the catch, those 850s should be running normals. The recommended ilvl for heroic is 860.
NOT 1 860 signed up. NOT 1.

That is... a really poor way of looking at it.

Our guild's recorded average ilvl on our first heroic Xavius kill was 849. Also, certain specs benefit far more from proper stat distribution than higher ilvl. 860's are in mythic.

[Andriokz]

Hey I could be 855-860 if I kept all my shit cirt/haste gear. You want a warr at 860 that does garbo DPS, or one at 850 that dumps on your guild's logs?

You need to stop overvaluing your raid, and what you're entitled to expect in your group. I mean, even someone in full N EN gear, with an 890 weapon, and a legendary would be 855 (assuming no WF gear). Sounds like you just want to be carried by those that hit the titanforged RNG lotto. Just pay for an AoTC carry if you want it that bad.

Oh btw...WTS AoTC Xavius PST

How much? Need to link the achieve for pugs. It's the only for sure method of knowing I earned the kill. Armories tell no tales of grey.

[laplacedemon]

People see 850+ ilvl on their character tab and go "oh, normal only drops 850 ilvl, im too good for it".

I don't think it's about that. If you're 850, you can only get a couple of upgrades from normal whereas heroic offers many. Most people would want to do heroic first, get whatever they can and maybe try their chances on normal at the end of the week to fill the unlucky slots.

And to mirror what everyone said, heroic definitely doesn't need 860.