"No means no!" but only for women

[frogger237]

I was having sex with a woman once and she refused to get off me when I could tell I was reaching the point of no return, as it were. Luckily she didn't get pregnant. Was that 'rape'? Never really thought about it.

Well If you were the woman and asked him to stop it would be considered rape. So I wonder if she had gotten pregnant would you be responsible for the child as you were raped.

[Deleted]

There is a large difference between someone forcing themselves onto someone, and having a child.
In case A, someone saying no, one person is an unwilling participant.
In case B, both people had consensual sex with full knowledge of possible consequences. If they don't know sex could = baby, then they haven't payed attention to humans for as long as humans have existed.

Who says it was consensual? If a woman rapes a man and gets pregnant, he still has to pay child support.
Imagine for a second if the situation were reversed, how the unwashed SJW masses would react.

[Deleted]

Why should the tax payer be responsible instead of the father? One of those actually are responsible for a child happening, the others are not.

no the mother should be held responsible -

[Segus1992]

Why should the tax payer be responsible instead of the father? One of those actually are responsible for a child happening, the others are not.

Pretty sexist of you to assume the mother can't handle it on her own.

[Deleted]

He is still the parent of a human. The law (in the US) assumes that the person (the child) will need support regardless of want by the parents. Also the woman is the sole owner of her body and processes; the child once born is an dependent entity.

There can be no equity in this; it is a one-sided scenario barring intervention (IUD, vasectomy, etc).

of course there can be - its called maternal responsibility.

[Segus1992]

He is still the parent of a human. The law (in the US) assumes that the person (the child) will need support regardless of want by the parents. Also the woman is the sole owner of her body and processes; the child once born is an dependent entity.

There can be no equity in this; it is a one-sided scenario barring intervention (IUD, vasectomy, etc).

Well yeah obviously the law states that. The question is *why* the male has no say in it.

[Mistame]

He is still the parent of a human. The law (in the US) assumes that the person (the child) will need support regardless of want by the parents.

Unless, of course, the mother takes her back-up option: Adoption.

Sorry, but as an older male that understands reality, these cries for the ability to ignore responsibilities sounds like what they really are...whining from the intellectual equivalent of a young, irresponsible teenager.

I snipped the majority of your post mostly for brevity, but also for the rhetorical tangent it seemed to go on. Yeah, there certainly are cases of men/boys trying to get out of responsibility for what was consensual, unprotected sex. But there are also cases in which false premise is a perfectly valid argument. For example, if the woman lies about the contraception and/or pokes a hole in the condom, the conditions of consent are no longer valid and the man should not be held accountable for the woman's actions. Similarly, in many states if you assume your SO's child is yours and sign the birth certificate under that assumption and find out a few years later that the child is not yours, you are still financially responsible even if you and the SO split up. The conditions of consent to support the child was based on the assumption that the child is yours and that not being the case invalidates that consent. In another light, however, this makes the entire "consent form" nonsense seem slightly more tangible if it includes a "pregnancy clause."

[Tijuana]

Men are expected to always not do something when women say no but when women wants to do something against a mans will, like forcing men to become parents, why doessn't mens no matter in that case? Surely it should be respected when men say they don't want to be forced to become parents?

Nobody forced the man to have unprotected sex. Next poster please...

[Dezerte]

no the mother should be held responsible -

You will be punishing both the mother and the child.

[Fencers]

of course there can be - its called maternal responsibility.

Or just, parental responsibility as the law sees it.

Well yeah obviously the law states that. The question is *why* the male has no say in it.

He is still a parent regardless of want. A child requires support. The child can't go with out food, shelter, medicine, etc-- just because one parent didn't want the child.

Parents can take these issues to court by the way.

Unless, of course, the mother takes her back-up option: Adoption.

In which the adoptive guardians now support the child typically.

It all comes down to a human (the child) still needing to be supported. Children do not get these things auto-magically.

[Jayburner]

I had to pay for an abortion once...apparently I got my then girlfriend pregnant. I don't even remember having sex with her or anytime before that. shit happens I guess.

[zechz]

Are you willing to say the same to women who do not want to become parents but instead would opt for abortion? Tell them to not have sex.

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Women should use birth control if they don't consent to being parents by your logic. Why do you support this blatant double standard?

Completely dead on. I don't know what the answer is. To not realize that there is a double standard and lack of equality on the handling of these situations is a sign of lack of common sense. Like i said, I'm not sure how to handle it, what the best way would be. That there is a problem though is 100% clear.

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Nobody forced the man to have unprotected sex. Next poster please...

The difference is if/when the woman becomes pregnant she has a choice and he doesn't. Is that difficult for people to understand? wts brain cells

[Aggrophobic]

Men are expected to always not do something when women say no but when women wants to do something against a mans will, like forcing men to become parents, why doessn't mens no matter in that case? Surely it should be respected when men say they don't want to be forced to become parents?

How does a woman force a man to become a parent? I mean, would you really be able to get it done with a gun to your head or something like that?
In any case, if a woman forces you to have sex with her than I'm pretty sure she'll end up in jail.

[Deleted]

Because we don't want an epidemic of fatherless children relying on tax payer support. What the fuck do you mean "No means no"? The minute you dipped without a condom you said "Yes, please.". That's on you, take responsibility for it and if you're not grown enough to do that at least you can pay for the people who are left cleaning up your 'mess'. Abortion is protection as well, unfortunately that's only available to women. Life isn't fair, you knew that, so why did you gamble?

[Frozen Death Knight]

So...the man in the situation was an unwilling participant in the act which made him a father? In the end, that is where it all falls apart with these kinds of arguments. The man was all for having fun, but when it comes to consequences, he wants to walk away and leave it to the other person.

Here is the other side of the equation; assuming the woman was also an enthusiastic participant, she is the one that will be carrying the child. This is not inconsequential. In fact, this is frickin huge. Not only is this a major impact on the woman's body, her career is impacted, and, until a whole lot more men start learning to grow up and take responsibilities, she will be the one to do the overwhelming majority of the child rearing. So, yes, she gets to decide how to manage all those things...the man deals with precious little in this equation. The man will have to spend some of his beer money to raise the kid and possibly have to baby-sit every now and then...boo frickin hoo.

So, let's dispense with the BS here...the argument is that men should be able to have all the fun and none of the consequences...period.

Sorry, but as an older male that understands reality, these cries for the ability to ignore responsibilities sounds like what they really are...whining from the intellectual equivalent of a young, irresponsible teenager.

That argument goes both ways then. Isn't the woman trying to avoid consequences by doing an abortion? Why is it all right for one side to have the only say in something that involves both parties? I am not arguing that a man should have control over a woman's body, but if a guy does not want to be a parent while the girl does, then it seems fair if the guy can opt out completely if he so desires.

[Fencers]

Why is it all right for one side to have the only say in something that involves both parties?

Because only one half of the parents can carry and give birth to the child.

[anaxie]

It they really don't want to be a parent there is only one way to ensure that. No sex.

Western Privledge and the laughable divorce rate and child support bias towards women is why I plan to never get married or have children.

I'm selfish I want to do what I want to do when I want to do it and have my financial gains be all my control. suddenly between work what the ball an chain wants to do and what the child wants to do especially when they reach teenage years.

In short silence is a virtue and if I have "needs" I'm perfectly capable of finding a honeyhole within an hour.

[Deleted]

You will be punishing both the mother and the child.

People sometimes do stupid things.
Having a kid on your own is one of those.
Why society should subsidize this idiocy is beyond me.
And if the mother cant take care of it on her own, well we have this thing called adoption.

[zephid]

We in the Patriarchy have decided that if you father a child, the woman gets to decide whether or not she wants to bare the child. While the Patriarchy is all male we do have daughters.

You can't really ask a woman to kill her fetus can you?

Once the fetus becomes a child, yes that child has a DNA father and that DNA father is financially responsible for the child until it is of age.

You can't force her to have an abortion, but maybe a man should be able to file for a "legal abortion" during the first few months of pregnancy. This "legal abortion" would cut any lawful responsibilities he might have for the child. This would give men the same rights as women when it comes to deciding whether they want to become a parent or not.

[Deleted]

Or just, parental responsibility as the law sees it.

But there is only one parent.
Only one party is actually making the decisions.
And even if you go for "well we have this inequality and we are not going to do anything about it because (vagina)" -
There is still things that can and should be done - Like forcing the mother on pain of incarceration (Kidnapping) to name and inform the father.
Because today in all the whole wide world a woman can have the kid, refuse to name the father and put the kid up for adoption with no paternal approval.
In short, the dad is apparently a father as far as money goes, but fuck the rest.

He is still a parent regardless of want. A child requires support.

Someone needing support does not mean there is an obligation to support.

The child can't go with out food, shelter, medicine, etc-- just because one parent didn't want the child.

The mother can provide.
and if you say 'she cant' well I have a novel idea, put her in jail for failing to provide, make her work two jobs and garnish her salary - Those are all things we do to men.

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How does a woman force a man to become a parent? I mean, would you really be able to get it done with a gun to your head or something like that?
In any case, if a woman forces you to have sex with her than I'm pretty sure she'll end up in jail.

No generally not.
More importantly, the 'father' is still liable for child support for a child he by definition did not choose to create - Think about that even the most hardcore anti abortionist sticks in rape exemptions, but those don't exist fr raped men.
But you know we live in a patriarchy that hates women.