Feral - BT alternative?

[Madcracker]

Hi guys, I am new here and I have read some Topics, but i didn't find any good answer for my Problem I have as feral druid:

I am struggling a lot with the BT Talent. I just dont like the way the Talent work. I find it really complicated to active a heal and than to maintain the buff on rake AND rip. Rake is quite easy because it is the first I do with the buff, but to wait until I get another 5 CP to maintain the buffed rip is just not fun - especially if you are in a raid Encounter and have to watch for other stuffs going on. I find myself playing a lot easier and more enjoyable using MoC, even it means a dmg lost. But I really like the 30 extra energy to pool and also the 3x freeprocs (even it is random).

My question: Can I go with MoC over BT and also be in a good dmg potential spot as feral? Because I really don't enjoy playing with BT (I tried it in several raids in EN). I am not in a progress guild but I also don't want to screw up my whole dmg potential because of one stupid must-have-Talent which makes no fun for me (I am ok with SR, but not with BT). Are there any sustained logs/sims where the dmg loss from MoC vs BT is shown (in %)? I tested with MoC & BT and I made more dps with Moc - but perhaps because I am more comfortable with MoC than with BT.

For me this lvl 100 Talent choice is not really a choice if BT is always the must-have-to - than I am wondering why blizz give us the choice if there are huge (proven) differences between 3 talents to choose.

[Deleted]

The trick with BT is saving the buff till you have 4/5 CP then using it, not using it as soon as you've spent your 5 CP and you're guarenteed to use one on shred.

EG

Savage roar - shred - shred (4cp now) - HT - rake - Rip - (back to 0 cp)

or rake - shred - shred (5cp) - HT - Rip - Rake

it might not be so fun, and i don't have logs to hand, but there is a quite large difference between taking it and not, but as always, personal preference and fun are more important than taking a talent that sims higher, but you struggle or dont enjoy playing with.

[Madcracker]

The trick with BT is saving the buff till you have 4/5 CP then using it, not using it as soon as you've spent your 5 CP and you're guarenteed to use one on shred.

EG

Savage roar - shred - shred (4cp now) - HT - rake - Rip - (back to 0 cp)

or rake - shred - shred (5cp) - HT - Rip - Rake

it might not be so fun, and i don't have logs to hand, but there is a quite large difference between taking it and not, but as always, personal preference and fun are more important than taking a talent that sims higher, but you struggle or dont enjoy playing with.

Thanks for the rota. But as you also mentioned, for me this is not really fun. Also because the limited time you have to do this and also watch that nothing else is running out. For me this Talent is just broken if it is such a huge dmg win over the other 2 Options as lvl 100 Talent. I hope blizz will do a overhaul of those talents (buff the other two).

[The Cat]

Best best is to sim your character and see how much of a hit it is. Askmrrobot is pretty user friendly, for me it's about 40k difference between BT and Moment of Clarity. Which really isn't even a choice.

There's no way around BT being basically mandatory, same goes for Jagged Wounds. Though, if you are just having trouble with the rotation you can try swapping Jagged Wounds for Sabertooth, or Savage roar for something else, until you are more comfortable with using healing touch... Though, that does nothing for just not liking the design.

[teddabear]

Hi guys, I am new here and I have read some Topics, but i didn't find any good answer for my Problem I have as feral druid:

I am struggling a lot with the BT Talent. I just dont like the way the Talent work. I find it really complicated to active a heal and than to maintain the buff on rake AND rip. Rake is quite easy because it is the first I do with the buff, but to wait until I get another 5 CP to maintain the buffed rip is just not fun - especially if you are in a raid Encounter and have to watch for other stuffs going on. I find myself playing a lot easier and more enjoyable using MoC, even it means a dmg lost. But I really like the 30 extra energy to pool and also the 3x freeprocs (even it is random).

My question: Can I go with MoC over BT and also be in a good dmg potential spot as feral? Because I really don't enjoy playing with BT (I tried it in several raids in EN). I am not in a progress guild but I also don't want to screw up my whole dmg potential because of one stupid must-have-Talent which makes no fun for me (I am ok with SR, but not with BT). Are there any sustained logs/sims where the dmg loss from MoC vs BT is shown (in %)? I tested with MoC & BT and I made more dps with Moc - but perhaps because I am more comfortable with MoC than with BT.

For me this lvl 100 Talent choice is not really a choice if BT is always the must-have-to - than I am wondering why blizz give us the choice if there are huge (proven) differences between 3 talents to choose.

BT is extremely OP. If you don't like it you are better off just playing another class. You could try Ovale and I am sure it would boost your numbers but it won't make you like the talent. No mention of Feral talents on the 7.1 PTR build so at this point it is looking unlikely they will ever get fixed.

[Wolfheart9]

I prefer enjoying my class more than being 100% optimal, so taking SotF, Sabertooth and Moment of Clarity works just fine for me, and I've kept up with most run of the mill ferals who take the "optimal" build. Will it ever compare when both are played perfectly? Oh my no, but not a lot of people play the optimal feral perfectly. I've also never seen sim numbers match real game results. The difference in my build and the "optimal" build on a target dummy was about 30k DPS on the initial burst, and maybe 10% over 5 minutes, usually closer to 5%. Entirely possible I just suck, but I've found the other one just works better for me.

[Traxwow]

I prefer enjoying my class more than being 100% optimal, so taking SotF, Sabertooth and Moment of Clarity works just fine for me, and I've kept up with most run of the mill ferals who take the "optimal" build. Will it ever compare when both are played perfectly? Oh my no, but not a lot of people play the optimal feral perfectly. I've also never seen sim numbers match real game results. The difference in my build and the "optimal" build on a target dummy was about 30k DPS on the initial burst, and maybe 10% over 5 minutes, usually closer to 5%. Entirely possible I just suck, but I've found the other one just works better for me.

Then you're probably playing against bad ferals. Don't worry there are a lot of them. BT and JW are a very large significant increase on ST.

[Wolfheart9]

Then you're probably playing against bad ferals. Don't worry there are a lot of them. BT and JW are a very large significant increase on ST.

I'm sure I am, and no where did I claim I was going against good ferals, I rather intently said 'run of the mill', so your average sorts. I just found between lack of OOC procs and mechanics that stall my rotations, the build up to get SR going again and all that ends up hurting enough where the gap closes due to human error.

[Traxwow]

I'm sure I am, and no where did I claim I was going against good ferals, I rather intently said 'run of the mill', so your average sorts. I just found between lack of OOC procs and mechanics that stall my rotations, the build up to get SR going again and all that ends up hurting enough where the gap closes due to human error.

The longer you play feral, the less mistakes you should be making with the rotation. The difference between a someone who is good at their spec, and someone who is great at their spec is doing the right thing without having to stop to think about it. Some people might know the rotation in and out, but if they have to be constantly thinking about it then they aren't great and should practice more.

[Madcracker]

BT is extremely OP. If you don't like it you are better off just playing another class. You could try Ovale and I am sure it would boost your numbers but it won't make you like the talent. No mention of Feral talents on the 7.1 PTR build so at this point it is looking unlikely they will ever get fixed.

Thanks for the tipp with the addon. I installed Tell Me When Addon and configured so that I can see the procs and timers of the buffs (Freecast for Healing Touch & BT), now it seems that I can handle it. I tested yesterday 1-2 hour on dummie and it worked well. I have to test tomorrow in raid Encounter if I can handle it during raid Encounters. It Needs some Training yes, but for me the Duration of SR is to short and I hope blizz will increase the Duration of this buff soon, for 5 CP it is too short. Or perhaps it would be better if the BT buff only would work for the next 2 bleed talents (rip & rake), meaning not included shred, I think this could solve the Problem asap in an easy way. But i dont have any trust in blizz that they will Change the talents during this xpac.

[Wolfheart9]

Thanks for the tipp with the addon. I installed Tell Me When Addon and configured so that I can see the procs and timers of the buffs (Freecast for Healing Touch & BT), now it seems that I can handle it. I tested yesterday 1-2 hour on dummie and it worked well. I have to test tomorrow in raid Encounter if I can handle it during raid Encounters. It Needs some Training yes, but for me the Duration of SR is to short and I hope blizz will increase the Duration of this buff soon, for 5 CP it is too short. Or perhaps it would be better if the BT buff only would work for the next 2 bleed talents (rip & rake), meaning not included shred, I think this could solve the Problem asap in an easy way. But i dont have any trust in blizz that they will Change the talents during this xpac.

Similar issues to what I'm having with SR not lasting long enough, among other things. Energy regen is so ungodly slow, and without SOTF, Sabertooth and MoC to keep energy management a little more sane, I was averaging being able to do 8 GCDs in 12 seconds, because almost no OOC procs. It felt so ungodly slow to me. Then again I'm only 851 ilevel, so maybe that build just needs better gear.

[Madcracker]

I read a lot that with more crit you have, the better the build flows. Perhaps going for more crit could help you.

[Deleted]

Crit does not hurt, but you do not really need that much crit to maintain everything. The most important thing to realize if you want to keep up all dots and SR is to basically never use FB outside the sub 25% phase. Also, using LI makes managing everything quite a bit easier since it does not consume BT and costs less energy than Shred for a CP. This can be pulled off at almost any gear level also.

Also, don't expect Feral to be GCD capped any time soon, the downtime is part of the spec at this point.

[Wolfheart9]

Crit does not hurt, but you do not really need that much crit to maintain everything. The most important thing to realize if you want to keep up all dots and SR is to basically never use FB outside the sub 25% phase. Also, using LI makes managing everything quite a bit easier since it does not consume BT and costs less energy than Shred for a CP. This can be pulled off at almost any gear level also.

Also, don't expect Feral to be GCD capped any time soon, the downtime is part of the spec at this point.

Which is a shame because with the MoC/Sabertooth/SotF build, you actually are near GCD capped for a more fast paced style (Rogue-like), it'd be nice if they made that build a tad closer to the 'optimal' build in DPS