The RNG Brickwall

[Belloc]

Well, the system is taken from Diablo 3. In Diablo 3, you also had a small chance of getting these. But you had a (working) form of "bad luck protection" - if you were playing for X hours and you didn't get one, one would drop from a random mob eventually.

I'm saying it worked there because it did - tried and tested by me.

The bad luck protection in Diablo 3 lasted for about a month (from RoS release) before the drop rates were buffed to the point where the protection never has a chance to kick in.

I really hope you aren't one of the guys who tested the "Junger Method," because that was never a real thing.

I'm only posting this because of your "tried and tested by me" comment. In my experience, every single "I tested this loot theory" post, regarding Diablo 3 drop rates, was wrong.

[Skarzog]

At this point almost every aspect of this game follows some variable reward scheme. I'm starting to feel like one of those mice in an experiment pushing levers for a piece of cheese.

Just one more mythic + surely one more and I will get a legendary, right? Just one more flask, surely one more and I will proc a rank 3, right?

[Traveler Voltin]

there will be a breaking point at some point.

[Deleted]

Did you finish the Highmountain story quest chain? I couldn't get Foxflower rank 2 either, and as soon as I finished Highmountain I got it in 4 nodes.

Finished that in the first week.

[Deleted]

840 ilvl is when you hit the wall. It sucks

[Deleted]

Goals, stuff to work towards, motivation. Take your pick.
You know, like WoD had with:
-Apexis crystals
-PvP honor / conquest points
-Legendary quest line
-Legendary weekly upgrades
-Valor for item upgrades.

Here's Legion's list of stuff to work towards that aren't useless rep items you will outgear by the time you hit exalted:
-

See the problem?

WoD was also widely accepted as a shit expansion.

Apexis items were total crap right until 6.2, CQ/Honor was a joke because you could deck your char in full 700 later on by just doing "pvp" in Ashran for one day, Legendary from LFR was shit (since LFR itself is just horrible, with cancerous atmosphere and player attitudes), valor was a late-expansion thing that may or may not come back.

There's plenty of stuff to gradually work for, from flying to improving your M+ progress for better chests to Suramar questline (not everyone had the time to finish it yet).

What we have now sure isn't perfect, but it absolutely 100% beats doing nothing at all and still getting stuff for free. Followed by dying of boredom because there's nothing to do except running the same raid over and over for X months.

[Todesbote]

"Too much RNG" is shaping up to be the new "Too many Daily quests" (MoP) or "too much garrison" (WoD).... it's of course expected people will always find something to bitch about. Sure RNG is annoying and it's soul crushing to see someone get the thing you have been trying to get for the last 2 weeks within 10 minutes but please don't pretend that this RNG issue is anywhere near as bad as the lack of non-garrison content in WoD.

Isn't the time you invest fighting bad RNG also work/effort you put into achieving something? At least I try to see it that way.

[Deleted]

So loot from bosses works this way now.

Rng to determine if you get gear from killing a boss
Rng to determine which gear will drop from said boss
Rng to determine whether it will upgrade
Rng to determine how many levels it will upgrade
Rng to determine whether the item will get tertiary stats

They added so much rng on top of other rng factors that gearing your character just becomes annoying. You can get upgrades from pretty much everywhere and the lack of a clear progression way is bad.

[Vellithe]

So loot from bosses works this way now.

Rng to determine if you get gear from killing a boss
Rng to determine which gear will drop from said boss
Rng to determine whether it will upgrade
Rng to determine how many levels it will upgrade
Rng to determine whether the item will get tertiary stats

They added so much rng on top of other rng factors that gearing your character just becomes annoying. You can get upgrades from pretty much everywhere and the lack of a clear progression way is bad.

I'm not sure it's bad. Having multiple ways of tackling a problem is very nice. Having the small chance of getting special rewards is also nice.

What isn't nice is how big a buff the legendaries offer - they are too strong. It'd be one thing for lucky people to be slightly stronger than unluckier people (although it'd still be non-ideal), but legendaries really screw it all up and simply make it outright unfair. Maybe if their powers were only available out in the world? But then they'd not be any fun either, so might as well just scrap them as a whole.

And don't even get me started on the bug granting some people multiple legendaries. Tbh I think that this failure alone is reason enough to scrap the whole thing ASAP, it's far too unfair by now and since they're not taking back undeserved legendaries the playing field is destroyed forever. Really, by this point they should just make it so everyone gets free legendaries and then make BETTER legendaries on 7.1, except without bugs, so that everyone is at the starting point, rather than a lucky few getting help from accidental exploiting.

[ihyln]

I think the paradigm just shifted is all; of course whether you enjoy it or not is yours to own.
I see the "fixed" rewards in the order set and artifact power, and to a lesser extent buying/crafting gear.

Like earlier systems, PvE currency had a certain longevity before you ran out of stuff to buy or the stuff was no longer relevant (you outgeared it).
Not to say this is perfect, but calling this a brickwall reads more like hyperbole. When you peel back those layers, wow is still the same game. I think people are way more hung up on "expecting" legendaries/titanforged than they should be.

the problem is the order set and crafted items are not always ideal and unfortunately for crafting can be really expensive. Not providing options is the real kicker.

Legion could have been a great expansion like WOTLK but it's marred once again by stupid design choices that have no place in this game. if blizzard wants us to deal with RNG then mythics should have NO lockout.

[kary]

The entitlement is real.
Like, holy shit.

Are people gonna cry until they get a badge vendor type system so they can get "bis" and quit after 2 weeks?

[lolpve]

For some unknown reason Blizzard thinks diablo 3 was the epitome of quality game design, rather than having possibly the worst player retention of any blizzard title ever.

[SoulSoBreezy]

the problem is the order set and crafted items are not always ideal and unfortunately for crafting can be really expensive. Not providing options is the real kicker.

Legion could have been a great expansion like WOTLK but it's marred once again by stupid design choices that have no place in this game. if blizzard wants us to deal with RNG then mythics should have NO lockout.

There's the kicker. At the core of this "anti-RNG" argument is the idea that warforged/titanforged/legendary is a primary component of Legion's gear progression system, and many players (such as yourself maybe) feel that the RNG must or should work in their favor.

And it's not. It's a bonus.
It's not a privilege, entitlement or right. It's just chance. But is it also a prison?

Players can gear up just the same as they always did; farm harder content, farm the same content to target your most desired gear and overcome your current challenge. From my observations, Legion has drawn a clear line between two different types of player with two different goal mindsets: Overcoming challenges or obtaining perfect gear. And because the idea of BiS has been pretty much thrown out the window, obtaining perfect gear is also next to impossible.

But I'm lost as to why that's such a big problem for players. One of the weaknesses of a non-sandbox MMO like WoW is that people eventually run out of stuff to aspire for (that they like). The bonus systems give non-mythic players the opportunity at high end gear, even if it doesn't have a lot of value for the content they're capable of or willing to do. Again though, is it a prison?

[ro9ue]

840 ilvl is when you hit the wall. It sucks

Yep haha. 840 is usually when I start my next alt.

[Mafic]

There is so much RNG in Legion Soviet Russia has thrown in the towel.

[FelPlague]

i do wish the legendaries had a progression bar or like a AP system but to earn tokens that you use to buy a legendary, get 54k "LP" to get your first then 200k for your second cause randomly getting a legendary, then it being a horrible one you wont use... sigh

cause having somone who has 5 days played time this level with 3 legendaries
compared to my 25, with 0 legendaries... is insane...

it really should have been like a progression bar, or curency you earn like old badges, or even a quest you unlocked once doing certin threshholds

first legendary, reach 110 and complete a long quest
second legendary, complete all mythic dungeons plus one mythic+5
third, defeat all bosses on normal emerald nightmare, plus one heroic boss
fourth, beat all of heroic and one mythic
and have these be free ones, well you can get others using currency, like badges, so if you want them all you can farm them, but if you only want a few, you just do these

[kary]

My biggest wish is that people on these forums would stop suggesting things.
lol all the ideas are horribad

[justinhalfout]

My biggest wish is that people on these forums would stop suggesting things.
lol all the ideas are horribad

At least some people's ideas in this thread show a much higher level of creativity as opposed to the Blizzard devs who have been completely fucking lazy at how they are managing said gear upgrades and legendaries by leaving it all up to rng.

[kary]

At least some people's ideas in this thread show a much higher level of creativity as opposed to the Blizzard devs who have been completely fucking lazy at how they are managing said gear upgrades and legendaries by leaving it all up to rng.

Legendaries are no way mandatory.
Upgrades are calculated at base ilvl. Random wf/tf upgrades are (were) a nice bonus for running shitty content.
You want upgrades? Run an instance that drops an item you want. Coin it.
Doing every instance in the hopes that an item with an ilvl upgrade ad nauseum is why people are frustrated.

And higher level of creativity? It's not a matter of creativity, it's proposing things that are realistic. Legendary vendor? Lol. Go back to farming piss easy content for badges to buy tier gear? All awful.

[Incarnia]

1st of all I noticed that #noflynobuy and you already bought it I'm glad. when flight becomes available at Legion; it'll be easier on alts to grind anyways. secondly, it might be a great time to take a break anyways. You can come back a while later with ak knowledge, flight and blizz's future catch up mechanism on legendaries it'll be better (targeting specific sources for specific legendaries in the future as they said and chances increases too if you don't get legendaries for months like me..)
I don't get your concerns about titanforged much. 20 i.level higher items than your current gear should be always better if they don't have crit even, except some trinket buffs?

I'm planing on returning later when a lot of things has been tweaked around, changed and gotten more alt-friendly. Flying is a big deal for me, as you noticed. So that too have to been implemented as well before I return. I'm not a huge fan of the fp taxi - ground travel to point of interest - whistle - then fp taxi again routine. Terribly boring and it is honestly making me frustrated af.

Sadly that's not "always" the case. Not for a fire mage at least. What stats you get on the Titanforged (main such as minor) compared to your currently equipped matters a lot! What gear slot it is does also matter. If the current gear have a socket and the titanforged does not? A socket on a neck is worth 25ilvls (for example). Best way to check which item does more for your dps is to sim it. Up until I unsubbed most of my Titanforged have had Versa/haste as a combination and been non socket /rip