The RNG Brickwall

[Echo of Soul]

They just have to be good rewards. Wod had stuff to farm but it was all dwarfed by raid gear making it virtually useless. Was it really that awful to farm wotlk dugeons to buy icc tier pieces?

No I liked that model. I raided at a high level at that time but I thought it was a nice system for my alts, it gave you something tangible to work towards.

If the answer to "when will I get this item?" is "between 5 minutes and never" I just won't bother.

[Glorious Leader]

No I liked that model. I raided at a high level at that time but I thought it was a nice system for my alts, it gave you something tangible to work towards.

It was great. It got better in cataclysm as well when they went to 7 a week instead of daily and the vendors were giving out normal lvl tier and non tier pieces only a step down from heroic. Heroic raiders still had better. Normal raiders still had the chance to get it before and overall gear up faster. Non organized raiders farmed dungeons and lfr if they liked. Broaden this out a bit, include world content activities (even if the pace is slower), tune the dungeons appropriately and youve got yourself a real end game. Not raid or die or rng for days.

[Deleted]

I love Legion. Great expansion overall. But I think Blizzard needs to fix some of the end game RNG before people start quitting.

• Leveling professions with quests and doing dailies... great! Then you hit the RNG brickwall of discovering the 3rd star rank.

• Gearing up then you hit an RNG wall with getting a legendary.

• A lot of the hidden artifact skins are total RNG.


You're going through the entire initial leveling experience at a nice pace. Great progression rhythm in everything. All of a sudden you hit that point at end game where 1) can't get a legendary because its total RNG, 2) can't get that extra artifact skin because it's total RNG, 3) no profession progression until you get WQ spawns/discoveries.


While the profession stuff doesn't seem like a major deal. Not getting a legendary is pretty shit. Also the fact that some hidden artifact skins have huge grinds after unlocking it makes the initial RNG extremely frustrating. You could do 10 WQ/day, a ton of dungeons all the time, lots of PVP but none of it will go towards that grind because you weren't lucky enough to land that skin.


What do you guys think? Are you okay with the RNG (talking to unlucky people - of course if you're lucky you like it)? If not, what do you think Blizzard should do to fix it?

Can't get gear with haste, cuz RNG.
Get Gift of Flame 3x within 2 weeks.
I'm a druid.

[xpose]

I wonder if adding an "instance" vendor for each instance would resolve some of these issues. After running an instance X amount of times you are rewarded a token that you can use to purchase a piece of your choosing for that specific instance.

This solves the tangible goal of working towards something and also the "never lucky" aspect that if you run something 30 times and never see that trinket drop you can expect a token eventually and can buy it.

[Sodia]

Gotta give casuals a chance to compete if it wasn't random they'd lose every time

I'm a Casual player now From 2009 - 2013 I was mostly on Epic /Legendary logs on my Ele/Healer shaman Care to share as you'r grate DPS Achivments Mister Pro DPS player

[Kreeshak]

RNG gearing would have been fine:

* if most of the game (including raids) was solo, or
* if most of the groups (including for raids) were forced, as in, composed automatically.

Since WoW isn't that, there are issues.

You get unlucky, bam, you are trash in the eyes of those who were luckier. And the differences snowball quickly.

quote for truth

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I'd be more worried about not having a legendary if I had come across content I could not complete without a legendary. I'm 863 atm, no legendary, 7/7N & 4/7H, tanked M+7 CoS this week... Still lots to learn and improve on, but it's that learning curve that's gating my progress and nothing to do with RNG legendaries. Haven't had a wipe yet and thought "Gee if only I'd had a legendary...". No, it's always more like "Doh! I should have zigged when I zagged but I can do that let's go again."

There are players just like you, with a slightly more aggressive approach in recruiting and a legendary who have cleared mythic raids at the same time you are strugglying at 4/7H.

Try not to think of what you can potentially clear without a legendary, and try to think of how far into mythic raids you would have been with a legendary.


Kinda like half empty/half full glass situation.

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How can RnG be discouraging when it can also mean you get legendary on your first ever try?

Also why do you wish for such a linear experience where A must always result to B? Linear is what kills the experience. If you know that you have to grind 100 tokens to get your legendary you will only play for 100 tokens worth and log. Look at you now. You are probably everywhere like everyone else.

So, you have to decide:

Do you accept RnG is RnG or you want RnG as long as it fits you.
Do you want a linear and finite content where you go A-B-C-D-Next expansion or a content where to the last day you are still doing world quests because damn its relevant.
Do you want personal upgrades or everyone else downgraded?

These are not just questions for you but for all those who complain. My personal opinion is that people are frustrated because the color of the item is orange. So most posts are narratives of the type: "That worthless lazy guildie got it and I didn't and now he kicks my ass in raids". The reality is somewhere in the middle. Yes he got lucky and you didn't but what if he is also playing better? What if he improved? Why everyone else was not worth their legendaries and people who didn't get them (yet) are the ones who DESERVED them more of all things...

P.S. The "you" in this post is NOT directed to you specifically. Its a general opinion about everyone and everyone can ask themselves these questions and hopefully find an answer.

P.S.2: You can survive without legendaries. 100%

I am not against RNG fundamentally.

The problem with the current implementation of RNG is what happened to plenty of people who got victimized for their bad streak of luck. And it's not the community to blame for that, its the game. The community will always be toxic.

I would either:

a)Keep the drop rates the same but tone down the power of specific legendaries
b)keep the power of the specific legendaries but decrease the drop rate

It is ok for the remaining 9.999.999 people if 1 person wins the lottery. That doesn't affect you in any way.
It sucks for the 70% of people, if 30% win the lottery. Totally different situation.

[muto]

The entitlement is real.
Like, holy shit.

Are people gonna cry until they get a badge vendor type system so they can get "bis" and quit after 2 weeks?

Probably, though I'm sure their parents will be happy about the one less expense every month.

[Kreeshak]

Probably, though I'm sure their parents will be happy about the one less expense every month.

Before you consider other people's parents happiness, you should first thoroughly consider, and maybe even reconsider, whether your parents are happy about you themselves....

[sd2400533]

No matter what they do, someone will always be unhappy.

yeah, but if you change something the amount of people that are unhappy will be much less.

[Taeldorian]

No I liked that model. I raided at a high level at that time but I thought it was a nice system for my alts, it gave you something tangible to work towards.

If the answer to "when will I get this item?" is "between 5 minutes and never" I just won't bother.

100% this.

[kary]

100% this.

I'm glad that the badge grind is gone. Actually do content if you want gear from it on ya alts.

[Deleted]

system is not fair - fact - equal chance does not mean fair.

If Brad and Angelina went to an orphanage and picked one child RANDOMLY are you really gonna stand there and be like "yeah thats fair, you all had an equal shot stop being entitled"

system isn't very good because it simply isn't fun
It feels like CSGO box opening
why does the other guy do better just because he got lucky - does the guy who got it really feel good about it apart from the fact that he is now the bigger dik dps/heal/dps/whatever

the difference on some of the legendaries is not small either
think of the feelsbadman moment when you get Prydaz or Sephuz and the other person gets their BiS

make the effects fun - I really like the hunter helmet feign death healing thingo which makes them a bit more tanky compared to legendaries which are just X% dps/performance increase

hard to understand tbh

[Eapoe]

Then climb Mythic+ to get to 10, guaranteed Ilvl 880 piece at the end of the week.

And then you have the extra RNG of it being a completely wasted item.

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RNG is fine, as long as it's not overboard. The biggest issue is that it is in every aspect of the game, RNG of what WQ's you get, RNG if those WQ's offer loot, RNG if that loot gets upgrades, RNG on what drops from bosses in dungeons/raids/world, RNG if THOSE items get upgraded, RNG for completing some archaeology quests (this biweekly for example, over 100 digs and I'm 3/6 where some people have definitely finished).
Look outside of the loot tables, even classes are hit with RNG. Combat rogues doing bad damage because of Roll the Bones, hunters not proccing MS, other classes also have these issues. RNG is just all over the place and in every aspect and it can burn people out just as much, if not sometimes more, than grinding raid bosses over and over for loot that stays the same.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

There are players just like you, with a slightly more aggressive approach in recruiting and a legendary who have cleared mythic raids at the same time you are strugglying at 4/7H.

Try not to think of what you can potentially clear without a legendary, and try to think of how far into mythic raids you would have been with a legendary.


Kinda like half empty/half full glass situation.

Honestly? I think the legendary would boost me from 863 to 865 and my progression would still be gated by me mastering the mechanics on raid bosses. Which I will do - I've never met a fight I couldn't learn - but it's learning the fights that paces my progress, not those two overall item levels.

[Kreeshak]

Honestly? I think the legendary would boost me from 863 to 865 and my progression would still be gated by me mastering the mechanics on raid bosses. Which I will do - I've never met a fight I couldn't learn - but it's learning the fights that paces my progress, not those two overall item levels.

I am necessarily saying that's your case, but the bolded part is a common misconception.

Suppose there is a fight, where you have to learn to walk through dangerous fires, 3 times inside 8 minutes. Surely we agree it is something we learn to do.

case 1) Now imagine tries that you do it flawlessly 2 times, and die in the third by doing a mistake.
case 2) Or imagine that you do it flawlessly 2 times, and your healers don't have any mana left to correct on tiny mistake someone did, by stepping into a minor fire.

If you had significant extra dps on case 1, by having better gear, you could *just* do enough more damage, to entirely skip third dangerous fires phase. Kill! Did you learn the fight better? no. However you progressed more due to better gear.

If you had significant extra gear on case 2, you could *just* have slightly more hit points not to die on the minor fire. Or your healers could *just* have slightly more mana to heal that minor flame. or both. Did you learn the fight better? no. However you progressed more due to better gear.


And of course the legendary it's not just two item levels, when it some cases it can boost one's dps by over 20k.

TLDR: Right now you probably have enough gear to clear 7/7M. With that gear let's say you need 80 hours of learning to do it. With 30 item levels more, you could need 40 hours. So gear does matter.

[Pendas]

I agree with you OP. I think some activities should be tied to RNG, but Legion ties nearly everything to RNG. Many activities that were once goals you had to work/ grind for (Crafting, Legendaries, Reputations) now require a random drop to pursue. The game needs to find a nice balance between workable goals to satisfy completion, and RNG activities to keep players interested. Right now, the bar has shifted all the way to the latter, and it's discouraging a lot of players from even logging in.

[goblingirl]

I agree with you OP. I think some activities should be tied to RNG, but Legion ties nearly everything to RNG. Many activities that were once goals you had to work/ grind for (Crafting, Legendaries, Reputations) now require a random drop to pursue. The game needs to find a nice balance between workable goals to satisfy completion, and RNG activities to keep players interested. Right now, the bar has shifted all the way to the latter, and it's discouraging a lot of players from even logging in.

Yuuuup. EVerything is gated behind RNG. That's what's miserable. RNG has always been present in WoW but it was mainly limited to raid and dungeon drops (gear, mounts, pets, etc.). Hell even the grindiest of grinds, Archaeology, got a dose of it - I did cleared 12 digsites this week in Suramar, got 2 of the 6 jewels, and gave up because at that rate it would take me 36 completed digsites to finish the quest and ain't nobody got time for that.

Legendaries aside, I have to RNGesus my way into... cooking recipes. Not getting Starlight Dust when I'm herbing. And so on. It's not fun, it's annoying to the point of "why bother". I would far rather have simply had to cook 500 feasts of whatever to level my cooking than rely on a badly programmed NPC who gives me MAYBE 1 recipe per week if I am lucky.