Are Brewmasters Really This Underplayed?

[Raincrow]

I must say i completely agree with this. I loved brewmaster in MoP and WoD, but these changes really put me off...
For example I dislike the new expel harm, the artifact ability feels a bit dissapointing for its cooldown and the new form of AM is awful imo. I'm not saying it's bad, it just feels bad. We basically replaced guard and elusive brew with more stagger and a worse purifying brew. So that leaves us with a shitton of stagger, a 50% purifying brew, 1 long cd and an annoying heal.
Don't even get me started on the clunky rotation and blackout strike which is basically the least interesting ability in the game with an optional talent.

To not continue a badly worded rant, I'm basically just really dissapointed with blizzard ruining a really fun spec.

Luckily there is still WW and a vengeance alt to tank

PS: Where is my chi?

The new expel harm is something of a travesty. We are a heal-dependent class with no instant baseline heal. Would it really have been too strong to make Expel Harm baseline heal, absorb orbs, AND do good damage? I don't know, ask Demon Hunters, because that's EXACTLY what they got.

[Alvito]

When specs are perceived to be the worst nobody touches them anymore. WoW players are sheep in a lot of ways, when they are told to or not to do something they listen and do as they are told. All it takes is some theory crafters and streamers telling them what is what and the players fall in line.

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Tbh it's not that brewmasters are underplayed. Monks are underplayed in general. Blizz just did not manage to sell the class to the significant majority of the playerbase. You got them facing against blood dks (best solo class, hero class that is well represented), vengeance dhs (a lot of people do seem to have made the switch to dh), and finally protection warriors, guardian druids and protection paladins; always decently represented classes and with a massive amount of hype from beta especially for the first two about how OP their tanking specs were. And then you have BrM, the spec noone could even seem to understand how to play in beta that they needed a blue to give us a guide and for which noone had a good thing to say during beta.

I see WW monks all over, they are extremely good in mythic + and are doing well in raids right now. I was just on a toon leveling up and got tripple monk dps. You can see which way the sheeple are rerolling because what logs and sims info they have seen.

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The new expel harm is something of a travesty. We are a heal-dependent class with no instant baseline heal. Would it really have been too strong to make Expel Harm baseline heal, absorb orbs, AND do good damage? I don't know, ask Demon Hunters, because that's EXACTLY what they got.

Sadly we have to be thankful they added it back in. It was gone for most of the beta. All of a sudden we went from all sorts of heals in MoP and WoD to nothing in the beta. Their reasoning they didn't want tanks that can survive without healers..... oh and here comes the DH who can survive for days on their own.

[Snackwiches]

We dont liek guard, too stronk

here warrier, have super fucking omega guard

[Nihilan]

They took the least played spec of the least played class and by some unfathomable turn of logic made it worse.

I personally have only ever seen one BrM in a 5man. And as far as i know, i am the only person in my guild who plays BrM. And even for me, it is an offspec i only use for WQ.

[Saverem]

Looks like Blizz has taken note of this and have already started making QoL improvements for the Monk. They just buffed our stagger by 5% and FINALLY made it so it goes away when out of combat.

This will not be enough to get people playing as the core issue, the ISB/Purify mechanic, is still unchanged.


Monk tanks aren't bad, they just aren't as good as the top 3 tank specs. Coupled with the fact that WW and MW specs are so much better and Monk class is few as a whole, raiding guilds would rather just have their Monks go WW or MW and leave the tanking for the Warriors/Pallies/Druids.

[Caspyy]

Looks like Blizz has taken note of this and have already started making QoL improvements for the Monk. They just buffed our stagger by 5% and FINALLY made it so it goes away when out of combat.

This will not be enough to get people playing as the core issue, the ISB/Purify mechanic, is still unchanged.

Exactly this. Brewmaster was good at 1 thing, stagger. They slighty improved it which is always nice, but imo the problem is that stagger is the only thing we got. So buffing the only thing we're good at was kind of pointless as we were already good at it. Surely the combat thing is a nice QoL improvement but if it's already live on EU I barely noticed it xD

[Deleted]

Looks like Blizz has taken note of this and have already started making QoL improvements for the Monk. They just buffed our stagger by 5% and FINALLY made it so it goes away when out of combat.

This will not be enough to get people playing as the core issue, the ISB/Purify mechanic, is still unchanged.


Monk tanks aren't bad, they just aren't as good as the top 3 tank specs. Coupled with the fact that WW and MW specs are so much better and Monk class is few as a whole, raiding guilds would rather just have their Monks go WW or MW and leave the tanking for the Warriors/Pallies/Druids.

Honestly I'd like ISB to be done away with and base stagger bumped up. I think with 50% purify there would still be plenty of interesting decisions on when to use it and good BrM would still take notably less damage than poor ones. It would also make BrM significantly more new player friendly, as you couldn't fall into the trap of using ISB and not actually mitigating any damage.

The whole dynamic of choosing which brew to use seems interesting, but ultimately there is rarely a real choice and it ends up feeling not fun and limiting to me at least.

There'd need to be a new active mitigation button for mechanics that require it, but there's no reason ISB couldn't be turned into something to cover those. Having a cooldown independent from purify and making it something like a small DR would do it.

I fear that we're stuck with the current design though. I only hope lessons are learnt, because the current state of BrM shouls be no surprise.

[Saverem]

Honestly I'd like ISB to be done away with and base stagger bumped up. I think with 50% purify there would still be plenty of interesting decisions on when to use it and good BrM would still take notably less damage than poor ones. It would also make BrM significantly more new player friendly, as you couldn't fall into the trap of using ISB and not actually mitigating any damage.

The whole dynamic of choosing which brew to use seems interesting, but ultimately there is rarely a real choice and it ends up feeling not fun and limiting to me at least.

There'd need to be a new active mitigation button for mechanics that require it, but there's no reason ISB couldn't be turned into something to cover those. Having a cooldown independent from purify and making it something like a small DR would do it.

I fear that we're stuck with the current design though. I only hope lessons are learnt, because the current state of BrM shouls be no surprise.

I agree, they should do away with ISB or better yet, make it an O SHIT ability to complement FB, but not as strong. Make it something like a 2m CD ability that increases our Dodge or Parry by X% for Ys. Or make it a spell damage CD.

Then make Purify 100% clear again (because we'll no longer have the 80% stagger that ISB gives, so it'll be balanced).

[Deleted]

I enjoy brm but I always feel it's missing a) an extra dps move b) a cd for small mitigation.

There are times when I just melt on daft things like the large rock mobs in NL and the dogs in between Fen in HoV. Bosses I don't seem to have a problem with. Oh yea the 2 adds can be a fucker in HoV before last 2 bosses.

[Rilas13]

I agree with some of the above in that brm is fine. It functions and better then I think people realize. I can't in any way say it is better than warrior right now. But I think it could have been done better as well.

We seem to have several things happening with our spec, if there is a dodge tank, it is us. We are also despite the expectation of dodge the smoothest intake tank mechanically. But we also had to steal Dh button for bringing in orbs? I would be happy if we did away with the orbs but maybe added another brew such as an Ironskin for magical damage to be staggered fully. Or possibly a shield brew with a different cd. I'm not a big fan of shields but if warrior has one we should have one. By all means take away our healing though.

Conceptually as a brewmaster I want to just take a really long time to die, not have ways to bounce back to full health and then drop again.

[Kyranna]

I used to main Brewmaster, I tried the new version and it's simply not fun for me. I'd take the MoP one or WoD one back once a day and twice on sundays.
I wanted to change and try something new, so I'm playing DH: a monster everywhere, except where it counts, aka difficult content, so yeah... not amazing, but at this point who cares? I haven't the faintest intention to max out another tank and grind AP/AK and the whole bunch of mandatory quests, only to be nerfed a couple weeks later.

I'll stick with DH, but I still weep for my old brewmaster.

[Jaigar]

I agree, they should do away with ISB or better yet, make it an O SHIT ability to complement FB, but not as strong. Make it something like a 2m CD ability that increases our Dodge or Parry by X% for Ys. Or make it a spell damage CD.

Then make Purify 100% clear again (because we'll no longer have the 80% stagger that ISB gives, so it'll be balanced).

I'd rather leave BrM as a uniquely functioning class.

Personally i wish purify was 10%hp +50% of stagger amount so purify would be useful on small damage amounts.

[risingforce]

So for the 3rd time this week I've been in a group where every person in it said I am the first Brewmaster they've seen throughout the expansion so far. Has this been the case for any of you other Brewmasters out there? It's pretty crazy to think that Brewmasters are this underplayed.

Yet my co-tank Demon Hunter and Paladin (yes, Paladin) get wrecked on Heroic Ursoc whilst I'm rolling around with Stagger.

We're underrepresented yes but (I'm feeling) Brewmaster is beginning to get more recognition as a performer; yes we're not competing with broken Warriors (I'm not sure how the IP nerf interacts with the Shield Slam update) but we raid fine and M+ is ok... only weakness or inability to compete is with Warrior's ability to handle Magic damage... which is sad, because Brewmaster used to ace at magic damage (Avert Harm, Zen Med' and of course Guard).

All that aside, every day I am happier and happier that I stayed with my Brewmaster!

[Saverem]

Yet my co-tank Demon Hunter and Paladin (yes, Paladin) get wrecked on Heroic Ursoc whilst I'm rolling around with Stagger.

We're underrepresented yes but (I'm feeling) Brewmaster is beginning to get more recognition as a performer; yes we're not competing with broken Warriors (I'm not sure how the IP nerf interacts with the Shield Slam update) but we raid fine and M+ is ok... only weakness or inability to compete is with Warrior's ability to handle Magic damage... which is sad, because Brewmaster used to ace at magic damage (Avert Harm, Zen Med' and of course Guard).

All that aside, every day I am happier and happier that I stayed with my Brewmaster!

Which reminds me, Zen Med is literally the most useless spell in the game. I don't think I've used it ONCE. Ever. Channeled ability that breaks on melee hit and has 5m CD... WUT. Maybe if they had kept it at 90% reduction, but 60%. Shittiest ability, let alone defensive ability, in the game by far.

[Snackwiches]

Class design in general is the main thing working against Legion. They need to give up their dated philosophies on this shit.

[Bartolo]

I was only using BrM spec for questing and actually stopped playing it when I realized I had better survivability and dps taking elites in Suramar as a MW. I mean I was watching Prot paladins take 8 elites and finish them with 80% hp left, when I was dying pulling 5 mobs (I'm not good at playing the spec, but still).

[anon5123]

Monk is already the lowest-played class in the game, and Brewmaster is the most complex and hard-to-play tank. That combination leads to BRM being endangered.

I too have only seen 5 or 6 BRM tanks since the expansion launched.

[Deleted]

Monk is already the lowest-played class in the game, and Brewmaster is the most complex and hard-to-play tank. That combination leads to BRM being endangered.

I too have only seen 5 or 6 BRM tanks since the expansion launched.

Definitely a rare sight these days and don't get me wrong, it is frustrating to play at a higher level to reap a similar reward to a keyboard faceroller but I enjoy the complexity and struggle, keeps it exciting.

[Baerong]

I'm trying so hard to like it! Every time I switch spec (main is MW), I look at my monk with his huge staff swung along his shoulder, I'm like YEAH come at me bra!! But then I start playing, and I'm like booooooring!
For me there is just not one button to push where I'm feeling awesome, maybe the explosive keg but well, it's not that amazing.
I used to main a BrM, I found it so sturdy and great to play, but now they changed it such in a bad way. Why do we have to choose between Dave (statue) and leg sweep? Both were base-line, no more dizzying haze, I thought that was unique. Guard was OP, but it felt awesome to press, like getting battle ready. Now we drink brews but with no cool effects. Couldn't they atleast make it cool to look at.
It's because I can't get myself to level another char for tanking and do the same stuff again, but man, I'm disappointed in my BrM.

[Pucek]

I'm trying so hard to like it! Every time I switch spec (main is MW), I look at my monk with his huge staff swung along his shoulder, I'm like YEAH come at me bra!! But then I start playing, and I'm like booooooring!
For me there is just not one button to push where I'm feeling awesome, maybe the explosive keg but well, it's not that amazing.
I used to main a BrM, I found it so sturdy and great to play, but now they changed it such in a bad way. Why do we have to choose between Dave (statue) and leg sweep? Both were base-line, no more dizzying haze, I thought that was unique. Guard was OP, but it felt awesome to press, like getting battle ready. Now we drink brews but with no cool effects. Couldn't they atleast make it cool to look at.
It's because I can't get myself to level another char for tanking and do the same stuff again, but man, I'm disappointed in my BrM.

I feel ya. I'm literally in the same situation. Main MW, used to Brm but now its just so boring and not-fun.
I'm super bitter about the dave change. In promo for Legion they were saying "Hundreds of new talents"... Putting something into talents when it was baseline before is NOT a new talent and is super lazy design. Same with Guard, was it OP? Sure. But it did feel great to press (and had awesome animation). Now what do we have some brew that barely does anything.