Nighthold LFR 30 ilvls lower then Nighthold Normal

[Semune]

The quicker Blizz phases out LFR the better.

They're also phasing out heroic dungeons, since regular mythics are heroics this xpac, and mythic+s are mythic.

They're just slyly doing it to not anger the casual crowd, and I for one welcome it.

Raiding without it being memorable is not raiding, they realized that. None of the casuals that only did LFR can explain any of the fights of previous expacs because they weren't memorable, just loot pinatas.

They gave casuals world quests as replacement loot pinatas.

[slalmon]

Because you can't always do mythic+? And no, most wqs don't give 1200 ap per boss even at my 275%. Wow, still no good arguments from you. Not that I'm surprised.

You can chain run Mythic +2's right, I mean you are uber enough for that right? RIGHT??? Oh and 275% AP from LFR is 960 not 1200. Seriously, we must not be playing the same game.

[Video Games]

You can chain run Mythic +2's right, I mean you are uber enough for that right? RIGHT??? Oh and 275% AP from LFR is 960 not 1200. Seriously, we must not be playing the same game.

And if there aren't enough people in my guild on for that? +2s don't last forever because the keystone upgrades? If you pug you're not very likely to get more than 1 chest which actually gives give less ap than lfr and is such a waste of time unless your group is good which isn't guaranteed? Got anymore bro?

[Traveler Voltin]

i lost track of the arguement pages ago.

so what was the point again?

[Otimus]

Then go raid.

I don't want to, and I wasn't complaining about anything, just FYI, so no need to get snippy

[Binko]

There are more ways than ever for a "casual" player to gear up so I really don't see the problem here.

I like that they're making myth only content. Because then it forces people to do it on mythic. Gating content behind difficulties scares people off from doing it on the higher ones. Personally I'd loved it if they didn't call it mythic only. They should've just called it Karazhan but tuned it as a mythic dungeon.

The problem is that there has always been a consistent 15 iLevel gap between LFR and Normal. Now they are going to double the gap and make LFR completely irrelevant even to casual player's sense of progression.

Basically, you don't see the problem because it concerns something that doesn't affect or interest you.

Let's say, hypothetically, that a player enjoys raiding Normal and he found out that normal Nighthold gear would only be 10 levels above Normal Emerald Nightmare gear while the gap from Normal to Heroic would be doubled to 30 levels instead of the regular 15. That player would be pretty upset. The issue is the change, being downgraded from the normal difference between tiers.

The people who post that this doesn't matter are almost universally people who don't like LFR and don't want to run it. But plenty of players do run LFR and even enjoy it and this feels pretty crummy to them. I wish more WoW players were capable of understanding that a wide range of people like to play WoW and that the game should not be trying to shove everybody down one path.

[shonist]

you dont do lfr even if it drops 900ilvl

[Binko]

I love that they have learned nothing from WoD. They tried to kill LFR in WoD and now they are going to finish it off in Legion. Trying to strong arm people into organized raiding really worked out well for them in WoD. I guess it is World Quests till the next expansion for people that don't raid. Yeah no doubt they will be sticking around for that.

I'm already sick to tears of the same repetitive WQs. I'll do them until I get revered on all reps on ONE character. Then I'll never touch them again unless I see a random item reward that plugs a gap.

WQs are not a form of content that are going to keep players happy and motivated for the long term because they are not creative or interesting but are just a slight variation on leveling quests.

[ChewbaccaOnFire]

This ilvl seems low if you look at the raids as the only way to get gear. If Nighthold LFR ilvl stays at 845, Blizzard is clearly emphasizing Mythic+ as an alternative to raiding instead of LFR. As it stands now, you can get better ilvl gear from Mythic+ than even normal Nighthold. Heck, I was in a group with a tank that had 867 ilvl and he had maybe one or two pieces of gear that were from EN at all, which would put him on par with heroic raid gear.

Mythic+ is also the catchup mechanic to get into normal Nighthold imo. Just doing a +6, which only has one modifier, gets you a guaranteed 865 piece every week. You can get to 870+ easily. I like this change! You don't have to dedicate a whole lot of time to dungeons, but it forces you to perform well at your class to get the best gear. I prefer this greatly to the crapshow that LFR often is.

[xerus]

The point of LFR was never progression for any level of player.

It was simply to allow people who are incapable of raiding (for whatever reason) to see the content in some fashion.

If you want the best gear you do the hardest content. A regular Mythic dungeon takes more skill than LFR and that is not saying much.

845 will still be an upgrade for the majority of people who run LFR thinking its actual content.

[Tharkkun]

So what? If you've exhausted everything else for the day, you may as well go in there for that stuff. If you don't you are hurting your raid team which is a bad mentality.

Not really. The chance of receiving a titan forged upgrade that successfully rolls up to normal, heroic or mythic ilevel and for a slot you need is very slim. You're going to get 835 ilevel loot most of the time which doesn't benefit you once you're deep into EN already.

[Viradiance]

I was hopeful they'd return LFR back to the good state it was in during MoP, but nah. With such ilvl drops, it's even more irrelevant than in WoD.

Hey, remember. LFR is about experiencing the lore and content. You shouldn't care about the loot, you're there for the experience!

Honestly it shouldn't drop loot at all. Let's see how that 'experience and engagement' rhetoric would carry on.

Normal is the new LFR. Just scrap LFR.

[Deleted]

I tried EN LFR on a whim at the end of a long day when I should have gone to bed already. I went through half-asleep in headless chicken mode and we cleared it with a single wipe (not running out of the tree on the Ilgynoth).

I would say easy.

Okay that's really a shame.

[Traveler Voltin]

Hey, remember. LFR is about experiencing the lore and content. You shouldn't care about the loot, you're there for the experience!

Honestly it shouldn't drop loot at all. Let's see how that 'experience and engagement' rhetoric would carry on.

Normal is the new LFR. Just scrap LFR.

loot is content.

[Adoxe]

If they're not gonna remove LFR completely then this is the next best thing, it should never give decent gear.

[Gratlim]

Remember loot can also be warforged or titanforged meaning you can get ilvl860 as well as legendaries in raid finder then. Good enough to run them imo.

[Traveler Voltin]

do we know the ilvl of the gear from the raid in 7.1?

[Video Games]

Not really. The chance of receiving a titan forged upgrade that successfully rolls up to normal, heroic or mythic ilevel and for a slot you need is very slim. You're going to get 835 ilevel loot most of the time which doesn't benefit you once you're deep into EN already.

You say it's very slim and yet I see people get them all the time. And once again, runes, legendaries and ap.

[Alvito]

i don't see lfr that bad. this is the second week i do it in legion and hardly see anyone talk in chat, enter>kill>leave perfect. The only problem is Blizzard newfound hostility toward it that made them purge any worthy reward from it (and item level is inferior to WQ)

In WoD until valor was added or satchels there was much if any reward either. You could progress your ring quest, if it wasn't for that many would have never stepped foot in there. I don't dislike LFR itself, just the way people go afk or do absolutely nothing to help the group or even worse when you get people or groups actively trolling everyone in there. Oddly those shitbags seem to be from Ragnoras, Jeube Theos or Illidan at an alarmingly high rate. Maybe shit heads are drawn to each other like some sort of gravitational pull.

[Tharkkun]

You say it's very slim and yet I see people get them all the time. And once again, runes, legendaries and ap.

If you feel that's what you need to be competitive then please do it. A point or two on your artifact isn't going to make or break your performance unless you're bleeding edge progression.