I REALLY miss 10 man Mythic(Heroic)

[Mindz]

This thread is filled with QQ, 10 man doesn't make it harder it makes you lazier. If you want smaller content do M+ and be happy. If you want to do Mythic, get 10 more people and get the party started.

I raided my fair share of WoW dating back from Vanila when you had to recruit 40 PEOPLE, yet people still found ways, managed. Reality check, you and your 5 imaginary friends are just crying for the sake of crying, you are not special you are part of a bigass MMO.

Climb on down from your high horse. I never said or considered myself special. I was merely stating that I like raiding in a smaller group consisting of mostly my friends, and would like a mythic 10m version.

[Sickjen]

Depended entirely on the fight. Some fights were harder on 10, some were harder on 25. The only time this didn't really reign true was T11 where all of the 10 fights were overtuned.

Well most of the fights were harder in 10, not all of course. Lets just look at SoO for instance. (I cleared 25h & 10h at the time.)

Immersus : 10 man was by far harder.
The Fallen Protectors: About the same.
Norushen : About the same.
Sha of pride : 10 man was harder because the fight was trival on 25 man. (you could skip mechanics in 25m.)
Galakras: 10 Man was harder due to less healing.
Iron Juggernaut: About the same.. maybe a little harder on 25 due to people kiting lasers.
Shamans: 10 Without 3 tanking the fight was near impossible. So 10 man was way harder.
Nazgrim: Maybe 25 man? Both difficulty's werent exactly hard.
Malkorok: 10 man was harder due to less cheese in p2.
Spoils: About the same
Thok: 10 man was wayyyyy harder. Anyone who disputes this is questionable.
Siegecrafter: About even .. both sizes had to deal with all sorts of different downfalls. high stack on 10 man w/ no cheese. 25m belt group no cheese.
Paragons: About even.. maybe harder on 25m
Garrosh: By far 10 man. 25 Man 3 tank strat was pretty standard.

[Socialhealer]

Now is that cause mages and hunters offer exceptional dps or because their ability set allows you to overcome obstacles. And if all you need is mages and hunters how is that balancing around having one of every class?

thats the joke, there is no balancing.

[Glorious Leader]

thats the joke, there is no balancing.

So the 20 man requirement is pointless

[kneehidude]

Well most of the fights were harder in 10, not all of course. Lets just look at SoO for instance. (I cleared 25h & 10h at the time.)

Immersus : 10 man was by far harder.
The Fallen Protectors: About the same.
Norushen : About the same.
Sha of pride : 10 man was harder because the fight was trival on 25 man. (you could skip mechanics in 25m.)
Galakras: 10 Man was harder due to less healing.
Iron Juggernaut: About the same.. maybe a little harder on 25 due to people kiting lasers.
Shamans: 10 Without 3 tanking the fight was near impossible. So 10 man was way harder.
Nazgrim: Maybe 25 man? Both difficulty's werent exactly hard.
Malkorok: 10 man was harder due to less cheese in p2.
Spoils: About the same
Thok: 10 man was wayyyyy harder. Anyone who disputes this is questionable.
Siegecrafter: About even .. both sizes had to deal with all sorts of different downfalls. high stack on 10 man w/ no cheese. 25m belt group no cheese.
Paragons: About even.. maybe harder on 25m
Garrosh: By far 10 man. 25 Man 3 tank strat was pretty standard.

Paragons was way harder on 25. But the point still stands, there was back and forth. Especially if you look back at the tier before ToT, it was harder on 25 much like SoO was generally harder on 10.

[Reachie10]

Well most of the fights were harder in 10, not all of course. Lets just look at SoO for instance. (I cleared 25h & 10h at the time.)

Immersus : 10 man was by far harder.
The Fallen Protectors: About the same.
Norushen : About the same.
Sha of pride : 10 man was harder because the fight was trival on 25 man. (you could skip mechanics in 25m.)
Galakras: 10 Man was harder due to less healing.
Iron Juggernaut: About the same.. maybe a little harder on 25 due to people kiting lasers.
Shamans: 10 Without 3 tanking the fight was near impossible. So 10 man was way harder.
Nazgrim: Maybe 25 man? Both difficulty's werent exactly hard.
Malkorok: 10 man was harder due to less cheese in p2.
Spoils: About the same
Thok: 10 man was wayyyyy harder. Anyone who disputes this is questionable.
Siegecrafter: About even .. both sizes had to deal with all sorts of different downfalls. high stack on 10 man w/ no cheese. 25m belt group no cheese.
Paragons: About even.. maybe harder on 25m
Garrosh: By far 10 man. 25 Man 3 tank strat was pretty standard.

Agree with all of this, good write up.

I wonder if they have statistics about how many people do mythics now (20 man) compared to when it was 25 and 10 man.

[Socialhealer]

Paragons: About even.. maybe harder on 25m

ah this is where we find the 10man raider with bullshit biased opinions, i know 2 guilds who went from 25->10 and 10->25, and it's not even close both agreed 10man was a complete joke compared to 25man, the spreading out of all the shit across the room the random damage flying around is a complete cluserfuck compared to 10man you have 66% less ppl 66% less chaos.

and clearing 25 and 10 at the same time really means nothing, as much as when you cleared them late into the xpac both difficulties were a joke.

[kneehidude]

Agree with all of this, good write up.

I wonder if they have statistics about how many people do mythics now (20 man) compared to when it was 25 and 10 man.

You need to look at length of tier to get a good comparison. Don't compare SoO (which was out for 14 months) to the current tier which has been out for like 3 weeks.

[Deleted]

I totally miss 10 man heroic (now mythic).

I really wanted to get into mythic raiding with legion. So I found a guild which looked pretty promising. They had a little test raid like a week before legion launched. I haven't been in a raid group of 20 or more people since WotLK. I think we were around 30-35 people and I started hating it after 10 minutes. It's just not for me.

Luckily a lot of my old 10 man raiders from the good old days came back for legion and we just do normal, heroic raiding and mythic+ dungeons. Still would love to have the opportunity to do 10 man or flex mythic raiding.

[Actarius]

I'm personally really glad they removed it. It felt small and empty. I didn't feel like it was a raid, it felt on the order of a dungeon. There were far too few people and you were far to reliant on them. You could maybe have a bench of 1 dps. Tank or healer call out? Not raiding that night.

Plus they had balancing issues, and there were fights/tiers easier on each difficulty. You could also argue that 25m was harder for various reasons, even though bosses died more easily for 25 mans.

T11 was easier on 10m
T12 was 25m
T13 was 25m
T14 was 10m
T15 was 25m
T16 was 25m.

I'm glad they got rid of it and kept a size that felt like a raid. 25 was better, we had to let around 6 people go during the transition, but I get why they had to make the concession to 10 mans and make it 20m raiding. They really need to stick to their guns and not transition out of 20m raiding.

[schwank05]

I have said this since the first 10 mans came out in BC. Kara and ZA were amazing. I have raided 10 man since then and we had an excellent 10 man Team since Then, but then the 20 man push made it guaranteed.

[Sickjen]

ah this is where we find the 10man raider with bullshit biased opinions, i know 2 guilds who went from 25->10 and 10->25, and it's not even close both agreed 10man was a complete joke compared to 25man, the spreading out of all the shit across the room the random damage flying around is a complete cluserfuck compared to 10man you have 66% less ppl 66% less chaos.

and clearing 25 and 10 at the same time really means nothing, as much as when you cleared them late into the xpac both difficulties were a joke.

You are talking about a 25 man guild going down to a 10 man guild of course it's going to generally be easier. You get a higher chance of war forged gear and generally more gear. Look at the average ilevel of a 10 man compared to a 25 man. Also the first guild that clear garrosh did it with 1 healer. I cannot even imagine how tightly tuned that was in the current gear. I raided both and that was my opinion. We cleared on 10 man then we switched to 25 man and cleared in two nights from the switch. It really isn't as hard as you think.

[kneehidude]

T11 was easier on 10m

I really hope this is a typo, because T11 was definitely harder on 10 man because Blizzard overtuned it. It was the first tier where 10 and 25 were on the same level.

- - - Updated - - -

You are talking about a 25 man guild going down to a 10 man guild of course it's going to generally be easier. You get a higher chance of war forged gear and generally more gear. Look at the average ilevel of a 10 man compared to a 25 man. Also the first guild that clear garrosh did it with 1 healer. I cannot even imagine how tightly tuned that was in the current gear. I raided both and that was my opinion. I raided both 25 man and 10 man. We cleared on 10 man then we switch to 25 man and cleared in two nights from the switch. It really isn't as hard as you think.

Any guild that goes from one format to the other will generally have an easier time doing it than a guild doing that difficulty for the first time.

There were different things that made each one harder than the other. You couldn't really afford to lose anyone on either difficult, at least for progression anyways. Though you definitely felt it more if someone died on 10. That being said, it was generally harder to die on 10 compared to 25.

[Actarius]

I really hope this is a typo, because T11 was definitely harder on 10 man because Blizzard overtuned it. It was the first tier where 10 and 25 were on the same level.

It was my personal opinion. I raided guardian druid on 25m and warlock on 10m. T11 was definitely easier for me, personally, on my warlock and we killed fights more or less at the same rate as the 25m group. (Albeit a little slower in T11 if memory serves)

[Mindz]

I like how - in a game with millions and where servers are really no barrier - people act like 20 people is this impossible number to find.

Sometimes people just like to play the game the way that brings them the most enjoyment, and for me that was 10 man raiding. It's more of an intimate experience for me. Why does that get penalized because it would "to hard to balance"?

[slalmon]

I like how - in a game with millions and where servers are really no barrier - people act like 20 people is this impossible number to find.

I still wonder how we managed 72-man raid groups in EQ with a fraction of the playerbase and no server transfers.

I think part of it is the need for those 10 players to be quite skilled. Even in 20 player Mythic you can't just throw together any old set of scrubs and go zerg down a boss like the old days

In a way I miss that, like there were no DPS meters to thrown in peoples faces, etc. in facet the more people you had the more likely the boss was going to die. Now I wasn't a hardcore EQ raider so I am not sure about all the particulars but I do think in general the player needs to have a much, much higher level of skill in todays WoW raiding than was ever needed in EQ.

[Deleted]

Thank god they killed 10 man raiding. Made it too hard as DPS to find a guild if you weren't a warlock, mage or rogue.

33 specs and 10 man mythic don't go along that well.

[PewPewArrowz]

Sometimes people just like to play the game the way that brings them the most enjoyment, and for me that was 10 man raiding. It's more of an intimate experience for me. Why does that get penalized because it would "to hard to balance"?

Because its a freaking MMO, you are not special, as I said. I'm not trying to offend you or whatever but if you want to do end content you're gonna have to expand your roster.

[kneehidude]

It was my personal opinion. I raided guardian druid on 25m and warlock on 10m. T11 was definitely easier for me, personally, on my warlock and we killed fights more or less at the same rate as the 25m group. (Albeit a little slower in T11 if memory serves)

Fair point. But I think the general consensus is T11 was harder on 10.

[Socialhealer]

You are talking about a 25 man guild going down to a 10 man guild of course it's going to generally be easier. You get a higher chance of war forged gear and generally more gear. Look at the average ilevel of a 10 man compared to a 25 man. Also the first guild that clear garrosh did it with 1 healer. I cannot even imagine how tightly tuned that was in the current gear. I raided both and that was my opinion. We cleared on 10 man then we switched to 25 man and cleared in two nights from the switch. It really isn't as hard as you think.

lol so biased, don't worry we can all have biased opinions 10man was way easier i went 25 to 10 and cleared in 1 night, clearly it's half as difficult as 25man.