Tech Billionairs convinced we live in the Matrix and are trying to find a way out

[sethman75]

So 2 idiots think they are better than everybody else and come up with this horseshit. Its called a god complex. They need a reality check

[OrcsRLame]

They need to watch Sword Art Online and just chill the fuck out.

Wherever you are, that's your reality. Nothing more to it than that.

[Deleted]

Didn't the Matrix movies show that you would be better off in the matrix unaware of it being a simulation?

[Deleted]

This theory has a glaring flaw though. It's like saying theres a bigger Earth inside our own Earth. That flawing being, that to simulate an universe, you need an universe-sized computer. So ok, lets assume you cut corners, dumb it down here and there, don't show stuff that doesn't need to be seen. Could work right..say the original universe is 100%, the simulated one 10% of the original but take that down a few more levels and we'd be living in Minecraft.

Maybe reality prime has different physics, for instance, its planck time is a few orders of magnitude smaller. Then they wouldn't really need a universe-sized computer to sim our universe, because our "real time" would be just a fraction of U' "real time". Same with space, let's say the universe prime has a planck length that's smaller than ours. It's just a scaling problem. This argument will not suffice to defeat the sim hypothesis.

But eh, whatever, it's yet to be shown if our universe could in principle be simulated or not, and I have nowhere near the expertise in set theory, computational or number theory to even understand the actual discussion (as opposed to whatever clever spin the wealthy bored guys were given or the sensationalized public story), so w/e.

For all intents and purposes the world is what we perceive as the world and I don't think we can pull a Munhausen and pull ourselves out by the bootstraps from *within* the world as it is. As anyone who's had a deep psychedelic experience on DMT or the like can easily attest. Making the whole endeavor an excercise in futility and another unprovable mental toy, little better than good ol' packing density of angels on a pin. Perhaps this is just stupid solipsism and existentional loneliness and dread taken to their logical extremes - but if these guys' expensive hobby will in the end pay for grants to mathematitians, computation theorists and neuroscientists - more power to them.

[dextersmith]

If they can survive at all outside the matrix, I think existence would be bleak, and that's if they don't get hunted or destroyed. But an image wouldn't be able to leave the holographic space as a drawing can't walk off the page. Without sustaining resources, everything on your monitor disappears.

This makes me think of kings funding alchemists for immortality.

[Deleted]

This makes me think of kings funding alchemists for immortality.

That's Kurzweil ;D

[dextersmith]

He also makes the side point this is the optimistic outlook, because if we don't eventually reach indistinguishable simulations that probably means society collapses.

Personally I can't find a flaw in the argument.

Why and how would society collapse if we don't reach it?

[Sliske]

Elon's argument is pretty sound. He says that 40 years ago video games were pac man and pong. Now we have VR AR and console games with graphics that are borderline photo realistic. If we continue to progress at any fraction of current rate we will eventually end up with simulations indistinguishable from reality. Continue that progress further, set top boxes PCs phones would be able to run these simulations. Leading to billions of indistinguishable simulations. Thus the chance of us being in "base" reality is 1 in billions.

He also makes the side point this is the optimistic outlook, because if we don't eventually reach indistinguishable simulations that probably means society collapses.

Personally I can't find a flaw in the argument.

How about that part that its an assumption built on an assumption built on an assumption?

This is what was wrong with the Drake equation.

Yes, you can set up a number of variants that suit YOU, so that YOUR theory can look not only real, but basically guaranteed.

However back in reality, thats not how things are done.

The delusion created here starts with the first assumption. The first assumption is the big leap. Once you've conquered the big leap, its easy to slide in other small "if" statements that seem very plausible.

So the big leap in this case is "its inevitable we will reach computer simulations indistinguishable from reality" ... is it? How is it inevitable? What research have they done? How is the whole human body needing fuel problem solved? Its a massive leap, an astronomical leap, but its sold as if its "inevitable".

Now you're down the rabbit hole. I liken it to a theory like this. You encounter a junction. You can turn left, right or go forward. OR, how about, you can go UP? A road appears via a wormhole (which actually exist!) that goes directly up. On this road, gravity is local, you can drive vertically up into the stars. Once you're on the road, its inevitable you will reach other planets. On these planets could be different forms of life, different societies or nothing at all.

I've just pulled that road out of my ass, and lead you down it as if it is likely or even possible.

TL;DR go read about why the Drake Equation is stupid, come back here and apply it to the Matrix.

[Mormolyce]

Who would simulate this shit?

Also, nothing inside the simulation can break you out of the simulation. If they're correct then there's no way out.

[Nihilist74]

It could be that we are a simulation. Some higher life form may have wanted to create a model/simulation of a universe. They programed it to have life that evolves. The life in the simulation is programed to have senses that detect their environment. We think we are living organic things because are senses are programed to tell us that but we are really just an elaborate computer simulation.

[Mormolyce]

Surely anyone making a remotely functional simulation would edit out immersion-breaking insanities like Donald Trump running for President and Clown Lives Matter. Our world is simply too stupid to be a simulation.

Didn't the Matrix movies show that you would be better off in the matrix unaware of it being a simulation?

The only thing those movies showed is that the Wachowski Brothers need to learn to quit while they're ahead.

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It could be that we are a simulation. Some higher life form may have wanted to create a model/simulation of a universe. The programed it to have life that evolves. The life in the simulation is programed to have senses that detect their environment. We think we are living organic things because are senses are programed to tell use that but we are really just an elaborate computer simulation.

Seems like it'd be easier to simulate us with actual organic chemicals.

[Deleted]

Elon musk is a fraud and you guys are rly stupid , all he do is trying to get funding for new better VR which probably some company have all ready but cant find funding . He is nothing more then common resells man . all of his invations are where not his but bought and rebranded get real rly .

[dextersmith]

I remember when I talked about the simulation theory and the multiverse theory years ago and people said I was a conspiracy theorist.

Now a billionaire talks about it and everyone accepts it.

Yesterday's conspiracies are today's realities.

So you came up with the concept?

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Im pretty sure it would matter to a lot of people if we could actually scientifically prove that we were in fact simulated, only virtually existing people. Like i said, 85% would dismiss it as nonsense, some others would likely end up in some sort of a crisis because of it. Im not exactly sure how you can just say it matters when so many people are seeking a meaning in their life and all... Yea, sure, it doesn't change what reality is and we still got to eat our virtual food and whatever and work to get "food on our plates", but im sure that knowledge would influence people.

Its as simple as the concept of a bottlecap, apples~

It would change everything in perspective. Vegetarians would eat meat and violence against people would ensue because simulated animals would be comparable to those in Super Mario, while killing people would be no different than playing Mortal Kombat. Your son got killed? Make another one.

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There is a big flaw, the assumption that we won't be able to distinguish a simulation.
A simulation is simply a set of rules, and if the rules are wrong then the simulation is not completely accurate.

A set of rules aren't necessarily right or wrong; physics for instance operates the way it does and the world functions within those parameters. Anomalies in the system would be treated as exceptions rather than a mistake in a badly written rule. Eg. Gravity makes everything fall to the ground except hot air and helium balloons. The rule wouldn't be written as Gravity makes everything fall to the ground.

[Deleted]

If you can find a flaw in our simulation, the simulation we are all avatars in, maybe you can hack it. Maybe Elon will be able to fly, move really fast or blink from Paris to New York in an instant? All common things hackers have been doing to MMOs for years.

What if we have already found hacks for this simulation, electricity has advanced our civilisation by eons and the ability to harness it could be a bug we are exploiting. That's just an example, we don't know how said theoretical simulation was meant to run. Our very existence could be a glitch or bug I'm the system

[dextersmith]

tho my personal favorite theory that i came up with when i was like 8, is that we are a high school chemistry experiment, and when class is over, we get flushed down the drain.

Like Lisa Simpson's tooth society?

[tikcol]

I'm sorry, but why would God put us inside a simulation?

[dextersmith]

If we live in the matrix then where is my kung fu program?

You'll gain access to it when you reach level 5.

[anon5123]

That sensationalized title tho

[dextersmith]

If we are living in a matrix, then doesn't that make creationists technically correct?

Hell, doesn't that render some serious validity to Christians/religious types?

Not necessarily. Creationists believe in one creator when there could be many. Furthermore, maybe there is no intelligent design in this scenario because everything was realized by chance within the rules they set up; like watching paints randomly swirl together when you drip them in milk.

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What if our characters in World of Warcraft are thinking the same thing! /whoa

Wouldn't they know it from having reality in a certain state upon logging out or going to sleep, then logging back in or waking to a destroyed Stormwind and forgotten abilities due to ability prunes? Getting boa mounts they didn't achieve or items mailed to them from an alt they'll never meet? Or being unable to retaliate an attack because some jerk afk'ed?

[dextersmith]

Personally I can't find a flaw in the argument.

You can't? He didn't even relay how he came to the arbitrary number of 1 in a billion.

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sounds like an expensive hobby

Or expensive high.

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LOL... well, to play devils advocate at the absurdity of the original comment I made...

The mind fills in gaps to make sense of the world. So to the characters the "changes" would either be filled out by the subconscious, "misremembering", or false memories implanted via an automated DB script that injects the new data into the "long term" portion of the characters memory bank.

I can display that your mind already does this:

How would they justify logging out a human male and waking as a female tauren?