I hate the massive disparity in group damage between a pug and an organized group

[TheRabidDeer]

I am a healer. I enjoy healing. I hate that when I go into a group for a mythic or mythic+ I have no clue how much healing I will have to do. I hate that some pulls the group magically works well with their interrupts/cc and in other pulls it is non-existent. It feels like I have no way to predict how much damage will be coming in, so I have no way to preemptively use a cooldown I have to absolutely react to it (which feels pretty bad as a holy paladin since one of my major cooldowns reduces the CD of another ability... IFF that ability isn't already on CD). Some groups I can do mythic +4 and average 100-150k HPS over the entire run but another group in the same dungeon but regular mythic I'll have to average 250-300k HPS over the entire run. I understand there is personal responsibility it just feels like simply forcing a healer to heal more isn't the way to enforce the feeling of personal responsibility for the entire group.

[WskyDK]

But how do you fix it?

[TheRabidDeer]

But how do you fix it?

Make the UI show interrupt/stun cooldowns for party members and reduce damage dealt rather than increase the damage taken maybe? I dunno, I am not a designer.

[Deleted]

But how do you fix it?

go on a forum and whine about it?

[TheRabidDeer]

go on a forum and whine about it?

Well, one of the best ways to come up with ideas is to present a problem and open a dialog... so it's a start at least.

[WskyDK]

Make the UI show interrupt/stun cooldowns for party members and reduce damage dealt rather than increase the damage taken maybe? I dunno, I am not a designer.

Them dying reduces their damage. The time added per death should be incentive enough for m+
If you remove the hp damage for standing in stupid we can just run four dps and a tank

[TheRabidDeer]

Them dying reduces their damage. The time added per death should be incentive enough for m+
If you remove the hp damage for standing in stupid we can just run four does and a tank

There can still be mechanics that increase healing, but it shouldn't be everything in the dungeon. And like I say, them dying tends to make the healer feel like they are failing rather than a DPS feeling like they could've done something different.

[Nikkaszal]

Incentive to interrupt is good for your average meter-padder. They've done this a couple times (Rude Interruption glyph for warriors, for example, and resource gen for Demon Hunters). Suddenly people get buffs to their PERSONAL performance for interrupting a cast, rather than something silly and inconsequential like, I dunno, preventing a total group wipe.

Appeal to the ego of the puggie, and be rewarded.

[TheRabidDeer]

Incentive to interrupt is good for your average meter-padder. They've done this a couple times (Rude Interruption glyph for warriors, for example, and resource gen for Demon Hunters). Suddenly people get buffs to their PERSONAL performance for interrupting a cast, rather than something silly and inconsequential like, I dunno, preventing a total group wipe.

Appeal to the ego of the puggie, and be rewarded.

That introduces the problem of everybody wanting to interrupt the first cast then having nothing for the second cast though

[Snackwiches]

Make the UI show interrupt/stun cooldowns for party members and reduce damage dealt rather than increase the damage taken maybe? I dunno, I am not a designer.

lol what, improve the 12 year old, horrible UI? That's crazy talk.

Seriously though the UI in this game is a fucking abomination.

[cFortyfive]

So playing better should be even less rewarding than it already is ?

[Deleted]

unfortunately with the time constraint in mythic plus you dont have the time to teach players what to do for every pack its something they need to learn in normal mythics.

[Worgar]

most of the problems with pugs are solved if the group is willing to take like maybe 5 mins to discuss wtf they're doing. If the group isn't even willing to do that then its going to be a fun run.

[TheRabidDeer]

So playing better should be even less rewarding than it already is ?

You can punish bad players in ways other than making the healer suffer.

[Radio]

For easier content (Normals, Heroics, Mythic+0) this is just part of the parcel, but the tuning means that people can usually get through alright.

As the tuning goes up through the various +es, the content becomes biased towards better teamwork/organisation over strong individual performance.

It's hard to avoid this - it's fairly intrinsic to any multiplayer game with difficulty levels. The problem here is that Support roles in general are at the mercy of their group's ability to perform.

The best way to solve this (imo) is to give the Support player more agency (in this case - their own interrupt, CC, strong reactive abilities, etc), but not enough to let them solve all of the group's problems.

At the end of the day, it's in the nature of grouping with people you don't know, sometimes they're just going to be crap both in attitude and performance. Even a DPS can be at the mercy of a bad tank/healer.

[Melkandor]

You can punish bad players in ways other than making the healer suffer.

Exactly.
One idea could be reducing the damage people deal when they stand in bad shit. DPS would be way more responsive than we're seeing currently.

[RestoChango]

Exactly.
One idea could be reducing the damage people deal when they stand in bad shit. DPS would be way more responsive than we're seeing currently.

That would just extend the pain for the healers since the target goes down slower.

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[Radio]

You can punish bad players in ways other than making the healer suffer.

You can in a number of ways, and they sometimes already do.

I do think that avoidable damage has a place though. I believe that healers should be surprised/stressed on occasion such that they use a mix of reactive and proactive healing, and avoidable damage is a fairly obvious way to deliver it. When all healing is proactive it's seriously boring.

[cFortyfive]

You can punish bad players in ways other than making the healer suffer.

How do those look ? More one shot mechanics ?

[TheRabidDeer]

How do those look ? More one shot mechanics ?

Like I said, I am not a designer. Perhaps a debuff that lowers their damage or something. People ALWAYS have a DPS chart up and know what kind of damage people should be doing, and if they see a DPS pulling 40k dps in a mythic that sticks out.