The more I play my mage alt, the more annoyed I get.

[Ehrenpanzer]

Why take a Warlock, when mages have:
1. An interrupt
2. Better CC (sheep>>>fear)
3. Better damage. (See 75% parses on reddit. Fire in top 3. Demo and destro in middle)
4. Better mobility. (Blink through mechanics)
5. More spells to cast while moving: scorch, ignite + pyro, living bomb, icy floes
6. Better survivability (ice block allows to ignore certain mechanics)
7. Bloodlust
What do warlocks have?
1. The gateway (it's incredible, don't get me wrong)
2. Sustainability
But give me 5 more. Hell. 3 more. 2 more? 1?
EDIT: This is purely a mythic guild progress discussion. Be it raids or mythic+

1. Remind me again about warlocks and their pets.......
2. Sheep is 1 target only, fear can be tab spammed. Fear also doesnt HEAL the damn target to full
3. Reddit is clearly the unbiased source of all dps sims and charts XD Also, I have a bridge in San Francisco I would like to sell you.
4. Not if you want dps... enjoy being chained to RoP
5. Ignite isnt a spell.... Living Bomb=Rain of Fire, and scorch hits like a 3 legged kitten....
6. Like gateway and portals dont? dont even get me started on your health drain crap....
7. ok? like your mythic guild doesnt bring a shaman? Remember WHY they added it to mages? Because everyone whined that only 1 class had lust.

You honestly come off as a wannabe elitist who has played the class trial of a fire mage and went oh-em-gee this is sooooo OP, or saw a skilled mage top the charts and now you are butthurt since you cant play a faceroll rotation to top dps as a warlock anymore. If you were a legit mythic player, you would see the strengths and weaknesses of each class and understand how to use them to their max potential and synergy, instead of crying on the forums someone has a red ball and you are stuck with a blue one.

[Aggrophobic]

Why take a Warlock, when mages have:
1. An interrupt
2. Better CC (sheep>>>fear)
3. Better damage. (See 75% parses on reddit. Fire in top 3. Demo and destro in middle)
4. Better mobility. (Blink through mechanics)
5. More spells to cast while moving: scorch, ignite + pyro, living bomb, icy floes
6. Better survivability (ice block allows to ignore certain mechanics)
7. Bloodlust
What do warlocks have?
1. The gateway (it's incredible, don't get me wrong)
2. Sustainability
But give me 5 more. Hell. 3 more. 2 more? 1?
EDIT: This is purely a mythic guild progress discussion. Be it raids or mythic+

So play a mage?
Mage is better than most other classes right now. They simply have no weaknesses and other classes do. This is by design as this expantion was about every class having strengths and weaknesses. They just forgot about mages and we're talking fire mage here of course, the other specs are more balance though still strong compared to other casters.

Priests might get close but it's more about just one talent being really strong there, not the class.

You'll never have perfect balance though. Not unless you had all players play the same class and that would not be that fun.

[stomination]

Best part is the poll that's going to be bias since what forum and thread we are in.

[Lens Hunter]

If you have more fun playing Mage, play Mage. If you have more fun playing Lock, play Lock. Unless you're in a hardcore progression group, I dont think anyone really cares. My mythic group has an Aff Lock and he does just fine.

[Deleted]

I like how some people say that I don't care about the other opinions. It shows that all they are here for is to troll and say "git gud" without thinking. I accepted some of them and edited my first post accordingly. I denied others like: Healthstones, summoning portal and CR because they're just wrong. Which I objectively proved in this thread.

Ps: I got my mage to 812 and joined a random HC in which I proceeded to beat ppl with 840+ gear on dps. Yes, they're probably terrible but still.

[MegaVolti]

Dude. For the love of god. My point isn't be a better player. My point is that if I played a mage, I would do way better than I am now, while playing a warlock. Yes. Or no?

If you could instantly switch to the flavour of the month class with all your gear and artefact points then yes, obviously you'd be "better" in a raid. That's why it's called flavour of the month.
But switching is costly, you'd lose gear and artefact progression. Either way, you pull your weight with both chars if you are a decent player. No need to stress about what could have been. The FotM class changes frequently and you simply can't switch every time.

Play what gives you the most enjoyment overall (including e.g. world content and the like) and stop worrying about the flavour of the month. That stuff is irrelevant unless you play in a top100 guild.

[Reaper11b]

I like how some people say that I don't care about the other opinions. It shows that all they are here for is to troll and say "git gud" without thinking. I accepted some of them and edited my first post accordingly. I denied others like: Healthstones, summoning portal and CR because they're just wrong. Which I objectively proved in this thread.

Ps: I got my mage to 812 and joined a random HC in which I proceeded to beat ppl with 840+ gear on dps. Yes, they're probably terrible but still.

Objectively proved, right. Even the poll is as useless as this thread, you aren't bringing anything new to the discussion that hasn't been repeated by everyone who dislikes lock ad naseum. Tell me exactly the point of this thread again? What are you looking for, some kind of validation to main swap to mage?

[Xkiller9000]

Sucks that we aren't tanky then

you have dmg reduc cds and self healing that we dont

[Halwyn]

You know like 99.9% of the people here don't care what class will you play, right?
If it is attention you want - go out into karaoke club and sing.

[Jessicka]

The aoe stun, Mind Bomb, is instant cast but doesn't stun until 2 seconds after the cast. It's a bit more difficult to set up than our Shadowfury.

In most standard situations it's actually easier since everything is glued to the tank anyway. In other cases, stuff can move from under the SF reticle during cast time, meanwhile they'd follow the mob with Mind Bomb. The only time it might be 'harder' is in picking the most applicable mob rather than placing a reticle, which is an unusual use for a stun.

[ThePhantombox]

Why take a Warlock, when mages have:
1. An interrupt

Meh.

Better CC (sheep>>>fear)

But no stuns.

Better mobility. (Blink through mechanics)

Apples and oranges really

Better survivability

Wut

-- mod snip --

Bloodlust

Go fling this shit in the shaman forums, see how that goes.

Also, how the fuck did I miss this:

reddit

Fucking.... reddit?!

Infracted - Woz

[Exeris]

Where I feel weak on my warlock is mobility when trying to get distance from someone or two, or even catch them.

[Nadiru]

Warlocks OP when dot snapshotting was a thing, Blizzard nerfs Warlocks. Then removes snapshotting. Then doesn't buff Warlocks to make up for it. Then guts a spec because Ion "didn't want us to play Demo." At least HFC was nothing but cleave and aoe fights so it disguises the weakness of Destro's single target. Same for EN, actually.

[Gaidax]

Basically what I see here is "warlocks are bad because they are not OP as fuck", because Fire Mages ARE overtuned without a doubt.

I would expect Blizz to take Fire down a notch or two.

[Underverse]

Yeah I stopped leveling my lock, mostly because I found it to be terribly boring in comparison to a frost mage.

Also, locks are pretty bad in pvp right now. Mages have always been strong, petty much every season. Locks are hit or miss.

- - - Updated - - -

Basically what I see here is "warlocks are bad because they are not OP as fuck", because Fire Mages ARE overtuned without a doubt.

I would expect Blizz to take Fire down a notch or two.

Yeah I'm still waiting for the fire nerfs. It's been an obvious outlier since the start of Legion.

[Shiny212]

Different strengths tbh. Mages knock mass aoe out of the park, but warlocks have wwaaaay stronger cleave.

Utility wise i don't see the issue. Warlocks are prolly one of the only classes left with some unique utility.

[Radaney]

Basically what I see here is "warlocks are bad because they are not OP as fuck", because Fire Mages ARE overtuned without a doubt.

I would expect Blizz to take Fire down a notch or two.

Arcane and Frost are decent too.

[Dominus89]

Why take a Warlock, when mages have:
1. An interrupt
2. Better CC (sheep>>>fear)
3. Better damage. (See 75% parses on reddit. Fire in top 3. Demo and destro in middle)
4. Better mobility. (Blink through mechanics)
5. More spells to cast while moving: scorch, ignite + pyro, living bomb, icy floes
6. Better survivability (ice block allows to ignore certain mechanics)
7. Bloodlust
What do warlocks have?
1. The gateway (it's incredible, don't get me wrong)
2. Sustainability
But give me 5 more. Hell. 3 more. 2 more? 1?
EDIT: This is purely a mythic guild progress discussion. Be it raids or mythic+

Eh?
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=104773/unending-resolve
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108370/soul-leech
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=219272/demon-skin
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108416/dark-pact

[ThePhantombox]

I like how some people say that I don't care about the other opinions. It shows that all they are here for is to troll and say "git gud" without thinking. I accepted some of them and edited my first post accordingly. I denied others like: Healthstones, summoning portal and CR because they're just wrong. Which I objectively proved in this thread.

Ps: I got my mage to 812 and joined a random HC in which I proceeded to beat ppl with 840+ gear on dps. Yes, they're probably terrible but still.

>Provide anecdotal evidence
>Immediately disprove own anecdotal evidence
If you can't win an argument, just confuse them.

[Cainium]

I like how some people say that I don't care about the other opinions. It shows that all they are here for is to troll and say "git gud" without thinking. I accepted some of them and edited my first post accordingly. I denied others like: Healthstones, summoning portal and CR because they're just wrong. Which I objectively proved in this thread.

Ps: I got my mage to 812 and joined a random HC in which I proceeded to beat ppl with 840+ gear on dps. Yes, they're probably terrible but still.

1. You have proven nothing other than that you don't have any valid points "against" locks.
2. Your last statement "proves" how less you know about that what you are talking about ("mythic progression", nice try, lol)

To become more serious: I've had tons of situations where the fact that i'm a warlock helped my group out more than any mage ever could. For example tanking Odyn for 15 seconds due to a tank death so that we managed to kill him in time, instead of not beating the timer. Doing the last 20% of a mythic dungeon boss solo 'cause "i could" and the rest of my group died, soaking things during raid encounters where EVERY other DPS dies, enslaving demons to abuse their overtuned abilities and all that stuff, helping the healer by just "you don't have to heal me" which is VERY good in mythic+), even if you stand in the middle of Nythendras breath and your health bar will not drop below 75%, and all those stuff.

DPS is not everything. In vanilla times paladins have been brought to the raids JUST FOR THEIR BUFFS. Today everything is that simplyfied that these concepts won't work anymore. But seriously, how can the option to talent into 2 AoE stuns, 2 Interrupts, Dispel, Seduction, AoE Fear, Instant 3sec Horror, 2 Range Stun and all that stuff be a bad thing? It isn't.

And here is the keyword what warlocks bring to a group: Versatility. The lock can adjust to any type of group no matter what is needed. In the current easy-mode game, at least for me, that is more worth than a baseline interrupt or 10k DPS due to taking Sac on trash pulls. That our DPS sucks without talent X is just plain wrong, it is lower, yes, but not completly gimped to a level that make us "useless".

Good groups know about these facts. Bad groups, and bad players, reroll to mage. The only sad thing about those people is that they go out in the world and scream that warlocks are bad, and that those people will actively prevent warlocks from getting back into mythic+, even if they play so bad that they get easily beaten by any lock out there.