Havoc - How should I be using simc?

[Psychout]

I would like to point out that I know how to use simc and that I have no problem obtaining the stat weights based on my gear but my question is when simming, should I be using Fel Barrage over Chaos blades for the purpose of getting my stat weights.

I ask this because I'm trying to find out the most optimal way to sim that won't fault me later on. I use the pawn string that is generated with simc and I do not use normalized values. I do this so that when raid loot drops, I can see exactly how much of an upgrade it is according to my most current stat weights so that I don't take something from someone else in the raid when it could be a better upgrade for them. I assume this is standard for most people.

Back to the point.
When I simc with Fel Barrage you probably already know that haste in most cases will be more valuable than mastery.
When I simc with Chaos Blades this puts mastery ahead of haste.

I know that Fel barrage is better for aoe/cleave and that Chaos Blades is the go to for ST.

I have raided with both and even though there are many fights that would seem to favor Fel Barrage, Chaos Blades still pulls ahead by a large amount where it counts, the boss. Being a demon hunter, we don't really have much of an issue with AoE situations with or without Fel Barrage and our ST does suffer a little bit based on the fact that we got nerfed and we are still very high risk with little reward and I feel that Chaos Blades helps make up for that a little bit.

So.. with all that being said. Do you think its wise to use the stat weights I get from using Fel barrage even though most of the time I'm not even using it anymore.. or should I just switch to using the stat weights I get for Chaos Blades?

For me right now because I am at 47% Crit which is roughly about 2% above the "sweet spot" my versatility is simming a bit higher and that makes sense. I'm not concerned at all with crit/vers as they are always higher than the other two stats as they should be.

The only trinket proc I'm using is from Bloodthirsty which with an 11% base haste, the proc takes it to 18% haste. Is there an obtainable breakpoint for haste that allows us to get out an extra chaos strike during the momentum window?

For talents I am using

Fel Mastery
Prepared
Bloodlet
Soul Rending
Momentum
Master of the Glaive
Chaos Blades

my base stats without considering 2p set bonus (3k mastery) and any other kind of proc is

47% Crit
11% haste
18% mastery
7% vers

With Chaos Blades I sim at 335.5K DPS
And my stat weights look like AGI/9.88, VERS/7.79, CRIT/7.51, MASTERY/7.06, HASTE/6.53


With Fel Barrage I sim at 315.5K DPS
And my stat weights look like AGI/9.30, VERS/7.35, CRIT/6.92, HASTE/5.91, MASTERY/4.56


With all that being, what do you guys think? Sim for Chaos Blades and use those weights, or Fel Barrage instead? Keep in mind these sims are Patchwerk.

Any input or extra knowledge would be great.

[Awyee]

Great post, and I'm hoping someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I always sim for the talents i'm using. I'm currently using 2 pawn strings for my different talent sets depending on whether it's a purely ST fight (like nyth, H ursoc) or whether I'm going to need barrage (eye, elerethe)

My advice at this stage would be to sim with the talent that you are going to use in the fight, and determine upgrades from there.

[Psychout]

Yeah for mythic+ where loot is personal, I use two pawn strings and re-sim with every upgrade that I get, but for raids that's not really viable early on if you're competing for gear with other guildies. This is why I'm wondering what I should perhaps prioritize for stat weights overall based on my use of chaos blades.

I guess what I'm really getting at is, if I am simming for Chaos Blades and using those stat weights mainly, then are there any haste breakpoints I should be looking at before considering the mastery stat weight that is being suggested by simc.

[Svisalith]

You take Fel Barrage because you're consistently hitting a decent number of targets; a single target sim will give you weights that are not representative of its use in cleave/AOE, in particular the mastery weight drops dramatically for ST but not AOE IIRC.

Sim chaos blades patchwerk ST.

Simming multi-target with fel barrage accurately is a lot harder - you'll probably want to play with fight duration and target count, maybe disable bloodlust and metamorphosis etc.

[Psychout]

I follow both of you on what you're saying.

I would like to point out that I simc Fel Barrage on Patchwerk fights because I want to see how big of a difference the DPS is on ST when compared to Chaos Blades and I also feel that you get more straight forward stat weights when you do that. But yes, it is clear that Fel Barrage is much better in AoE fights.

However, with that being said, I focus mainly on boss damage because the DH baseline AoE damage is good enough. My only issue with that is it makes things a little bit less interesting for me because it's one less button to micro manage but it is what it is.

I will try playing with some settings though as suggested just to see the results.

Still, two major things I'm curious about and that is..

What are the haste breakpoints during the momentum window for extra chaos hits outside of meta and then during meta due to the 25% haste.
How much does the movement speed bonus from our mastery benefit our DPS indirectly.

The mastery part is interesting because we get two perks from it. Chaos damage and movement speed and while we all know that chaos damage is nice to have and does in fact increase our damage, despite versatility being more valuable..does the movement speed portion make a big enough difference to entertain the thought that maybe mastery is not as low as it sims without Chaos Blades.

I say this because..

Not everyone is at the top level where when you Fel Rush/Vengeful Retreat you stick to the target 100% although in most cases the hit box on bosses is big enough, sometimes you will overstep or miss a bit and this drops your DPS on the way back to the target. If your haste is high enough or during a lust, throwing a glaive on return may not be enough to prolong the GCD so that you can dump your fury and get that one extra attack.

There are also many mechanics that force you to be pretty mobile and so getting around faster in between your own mobility skillset is always a nice thing to have.

With that being considered, I think in those situations, Mastery does a little bit more than increase our chaos damage. It could potentially help eliminate a global from being wasted. Of course, everyone should do their best to avoid those situations, sometimes it just happens and thats when the extra movement speed I feel comes in handy.

Do sims even take this into consideration?

[Mamut]

I have different question about SimC but did not want to made another thread. Im using addon to copy data into Simc application. All I sometimes do is just change talents in the info tab. Will I get correct stat weights for my current spec or I should somewhere change some options?