Guild stuck on Mythic Ursoc needs help!

[Xshadow56]

Hello! My guild has spent two full raid nights and around 59 attempts on Mythic Ursoc so far. We've had a handful of pulls that were really close, but we just can't seem to get over the hump.

I know our DPS is on the lower end, and I'm wondering if there's anything of note I could do as raid leader to get better numbers out of my players. Any advice or tips are much appreciated. My raiders will likely see this post, so comments about specific players performance would be really helpful. Thanks in advance!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1841&wipes=1

Just thought it was worth including that we've been using Heroism at the beginning of the fight.

[Arcanines]

Cant check much of the log due to being on the phone. But what I can say is, try to use lust on pull, the fight is all about getting it done before the 2nd empowered combo as it just kills people.

But that said, use vantus rune, and get the warriors to play arms. They have no reason to play fury, WAY to mugh dmg going on if a person cant pull 315k dps they should sit, AND HEALERS for the love of god DO NOT heal the first 20sec your job is to dps combined 4 healers can do over 50 mil dmg over the entire fight thats a lot of dmg.

[Carnifexette]

Are you guys using Vantus Rune: Ursoc? It helped my guild/raid push that extra bit of damage needed to handle the tight enrage timer. Also: save BL/Hero until 30%.

[Arcanines]

Are you guys using Vantus Rune: Ursoc? It helped my guild/raid push that extra bit of damage needed to handle the tight enrage timer. Also: save BL/Hero until 30%.

You use it on 30% if the healers need it as a healing CD the dps you gain is the same, just that trinkets go off on pull, unless your stacking Sp's then I could understand saving it.

[Xshadow56]

Thanks for the replies! We're using Hero at the start to give the DPS an extra boost as our healers are pretty solid. We did use the Vantus rune and it helped, but obviously not enough to get the kill =/.

Your point about healers is well taken. I'm the Holy Paladin, and I tried my best to DPS as much as possible in the early portion of the fight. I'll be sure to make sure the other DPS follow suit.

As for the Warriors... I try to let people play the spec they want as long as it isn't holding us back too much, but of course you're right in that if they were Arms they'd be doing far more damage. I'll run it by them.

Appreciate the feedback! Anything else?

[Deleted]

Make sure everyone in the soak groups get it every time, tanks included. I noticed that there was a fairly large disparity in momentum debuffs, your prot paladin seemed to have taken 20 less across all tries compared to your top dog hunter. It's super simple for tanks to soak once they get a hang of it (just stand inside the bear) so it's important they help out where they can

Besides that, his damage is really low if you compare to the prot warrior. No tank damage disparity exists where one should do 100k dps and one 180k

[Emerald Archer]

Yeah, both your Warriors really should be Arms, but it's quite a different stat prio. So because they already made the mistake of going Fury (Despite it being a really obvious dumb mistake for st) you probably can't expect them to change and do more dps than they are as fury. Unless they have alot of mastery. Make sure to double pot, and that all the dps are flasking. Vantus runes are a bit help, it might not seem like much but 20 runes is huge.

Intoker should consider going ST talents (Kindling mainly), assuming you already have enough cleave for the add, and he should have more crit. If he had the wriggling sinew he'd probably do better. (My mage mate said, 3% feelsbadman if he went the right talents and healers dps'd, they'd have killed it)
Hunters are a bit low but from what I can see it's just bad rng on their behalf, maybe not enough mastery? But hard to tell. They're playing properly.
Your DH should be going momentum, by going nemesis he might be getting like 1-2% damage on the boss, but it's sacrificing free damage onto the add that will save other people in your raid, who do good st damage from having to sacrifice their damage. (My DH mate will look more into it after he's had dinner)

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DH said: No 2nd pot, his 2nd trink (Nature's call) is god awful, wasted a little bit of fury from demon blades so probably needs to get Kib's predictive bar for it if he doesn't have it,

This is checking the 20th attempt btw.

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Annnnd alot of your raiders have really low amount of artifact points. They should farm some more.

[Adramelch]

Your tactic seems to have a lot of unnecessary movement. Seems to me that you always have the charge target going into the middle and the 2 groups swapping place?

[Xshadow56]

Thanks for the descriptive reply Axil! That's the issue with considering having the Warriors swap, is that they don't have the gear for Arms as they've fully committed to Fury =/.

You felt that all 3 Hunters were playing optimally? That's good to know at least! What about the rest of the Mages? I feel they've been underperforming as well, but can't pinpoint why. And yeah, those 3% wipes are very painful haha. I'll talk to the DH... it's frustrating to know that some of my players aren't even talented properly, as that's easy to fix. But it's something I'll pay a lot more attention to in the future.

Unfortunately quite a few of the players in the guild don't have much time outside of raid to play, so they fall behind on AP. There's not much that can be done about that, though it obviously will hold us back slightly.

Thanks again for your reply, much appreciated!

Allana, that's a good point regarding the soak. The Paladin tank is typically DPS, so there was an adjustment period for him. We had to have him tank as the usual tank is away =/.

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Your tactic seems to have a lot of unnecessary movement. Seems to me that you always have the charge target going into the middle and the 2 groups swapping place?

Yes, that's exactly what we're doing. I saw it in Proper Bird's video and it seemed to work just fine. What would you recommend instead? Thanks for the reply!

[Ellianar]

Warriors don't need to be arms, everyone of your dps should up their game, these dps numbers are not that good for this level of gear.

[Adramelch]

Yes, that's exactly what we're doing. I saw it in Proper Bird's video and it seemed to work just fine. What would you recommend instead? Thanks for the reply!

The most common tactic is to have 2 groups, 1 melee (it should also have 2 healers and fill the rest with hunters) and 1 ranged, The melee always stay in front of the boss and the ranged at the side and it's the marked target that swaps back and forth. This typically means less movement for the casters.

PS: All that said, you should probably try all the other changes first, instead of changing the positioning.

[Emerald Archer]

Yeah, the warriors should probably remain the same spec because of that,
The mages aren't great but I can't tell what they're doing wrong. All I know is our mages with the same gear are doing much more. Try http://www.checkmywow.com/ on the dps specs, you paste in the logs, select the person and attempt, and it'll tell you how they could have played more optimally.
Hunter wise, their vulnerable debuff uptime should be higher, but that can be understood if they have bad rng. But if the rng isn't bad, then they're just not managing their vulnerable uptime as well as they could. Tel seems fine with it, Koag is alright too. But Dragon is quite a lot lower. I'm looking across all attempts, ignoring events after 2 people died for an average uptime %. He may have died early or just had bad luck but from what I can see he just didn't play as optimally as he could have.

I highly recommend using the link I put in, it's very handy to find misplays.

[Chingylol]

Your raids overall damage taken from Miasma is high. I looked at your best attempt (19) and compared them to my guilds kill this week and you guys took almost triple from it. (54m vs 21m) That's alot of damage. At first I thought it was maybe because a wipe was called and people stood in it on purpose, but you only had 2 people dead 10 seconds before the fight ends so I don't think that was the issue.

Mittromney took FIFTY TWO ticks of it. That's unacceptable. Not just him though, it seems like almost all your melee are taking 20-30. The rogue took 39 and the other warrior took 35. On average our melee takes 7-10 and our casters take 2-5. They need to be aware when the nightmare is dying and move away.

Also damage is low. If you killed Ursoc at that 5 minute mark, you have 9 DPS that would have parsed in the grey below 15%, and some are single digits.

edit: Oops, attempt 18 I was looking at, not 19.

[Emerald Archer]

Alright, I used the checkmywow to check your hunters actually. I was wrong, they're all misplaying. I assumed because they all had similar cast numbers, that it must have been the right amount of casts. But they're actually all casting less than they should and missing alot of damage.

[Xshadow56]

Alright, I used the checkmywow to check your hunters actually. I was wrong, they're all misplaying. I assumed because they all had similar cast numbers, that it must have been the right amount of casts. But they're actually all casting less than they should and missing alot of damage.

Thanks for that link! I'd never heard of that website before. Very useful. I don't understand what could be causing them to miss so many casts, but I'll bring it up in the future.

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Your raids overall damage taken from Miasma is high. I looked at your best attempt (19) and compared them to my guilds kill this week and you guys took almost triple from it. (54m vs 21m) That's alot of damage. At first I thought it was maybe because a wipe was called and people stood in it on purpose, but you only had 2 people dead 10 seconds before the fight ends so I don't think that was the issue.

Mittromney took FIFTY TWO ticks of it. That's unacceptable. Not just him though, it seems like almost all your melee are taking 20-30. The rogue took 39 and the other warrior took 35. On average our melee takes 7-10 and our casters take 2-5. They need to be aware when the nightmare is dying and move away.

Also damage is low. If you killed Ursoc at that 5 minute mark, you have 9 DPS that would have parsed in the grey below 15%, and some are single digits.

Thanks for the reply! Our DPS is rather low, I agree. I've been wracking my brain over it, but this thread is definitely opening my eyes.

That IS an incredibly high amount of Miasma damage. Because healers haven't been struggling too much I assumed we were fine. Guess not! Thanks for pointing that out.

[Chingylol]

Here's the CD rotation we use as well.

Charge
#1: Devotion Aura + Tranquility
#2: Spirit Link + Darkness1 + Healing Tide
#3: Commanding S. 1 + Revival
#4: Commanding S. 2 + Health pot/stones
#5: Shaman5min totem + Darkness2 +Healthpot/stones
#6: Devotion Aura + Darkness1 + Tranquility
#7: Spirit Link + Cheat Death Classes + Healing Tide

Our Holy Pally did like 15-16m damage and prepotted a Deadly Grace which helps a tiny bit.

[Adramelch]

In regards to your boomkin, he has a somewhat wrong opener, but that's a minor thing. The major thing is that he interrupts a lot of his casts (which means he's not properly planning for movement) and on attempt 20, at around the 1 minute mark he has 13 seconds of not casting a single damaging spell. Now granted, he has Focused gaze there, but that's still not an excuse. He's also casting way too many dots (again, bad movement for the most part since he's playing with NB) and he's overcapping on empowerments (wasted 5 empLS).

Picking up attempt 6, he's not overcapping empowerments, but he still casts way too many dots, interrupts way too many spells, has quite a few moments when he's casting nothing for 3-4 seconds at a time and he also inexplicably used his 2nd pot outside of his CDs, which is some feat given that with his legendary he has 36% uptime on his Incarnation.

[Wenoxar]

OP

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...97969&cutoff=2

This is from the 3% wipe.

As you can see, there were 13 casts of Roaring Cacophony. And a lot of people weren't 25yards close to the boss to split damage. Ignore events after 2 players have died turned on.

Also:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=224001

Only 4 players used runes.

Also

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=188027

Potions? Everyone should use two potions.

Just fix these things and boss is dead. Don't overthink it.

[Chingylol]

Looks like your warriors are focusing on the Nightmare instead of Ursoc when they come out. Have them just stay on Ursoc. I don't know much about fury warriors in Legion so I'm not sure if they have a cleave component in their ST rotation, but if they do, tell them to focus Ursoc and cleave the nightmare, not the other way around. Also make sure everyone is using Vantus Runes. The 1000 Vers is gives is almost 2% extra damage (Like 1.85% around).

[Xshadow56]

OP

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...97969&cutoff=2

This is from the 3% wipe.

As you can see, there were 13 casts of Roaring Cacophony. And a lot of people weren't 25yards close to the boss to split damage. Ignore events after 2 players have died turned on.

Also:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=224001

Only 4 players used runes.

Also

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=188027

Potions? Everyone should use two potions.

Just fix these things and boss is dead. Don't overthink it.

Appreciate the reply!

It's frustrating to see that not everyone used potions as it was made more than clear that we needed to be. As for the Roars, ranged were consistently misjudging where they could stand that they would be within range of it. That should be a relatively easy fix though.

You're ultimately right about not overthinking it, I'm just frustrated by the overall poor performance of the DPS, and trying to figure out anything that can be done to fix that. Really appreciate the reply though, very eye opening.

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Here's the CD rotation we use as well.

Charge
#1: Devotion Aura + Tranquility
#2: Spirit Link + Darkness1 + Healing Tide
#3: Commanding S. 1 + Revival
#4: Commanding S. 2 + Health pot/stones
#5: Shaman5min totem + Darkness2 +Healthpot/stones
#6: Devotion Aura + Darkness1 + Tranquility
#7: Spirit Link + Cheat Death Classes + Healing Tide

Our Holy Pally did like 15-16m damage and prepotted a Deadly Grace which helps a tiny bit.

Thanks for listing your CD rotation. Does having pots/stones in the rotation not lead to deaths later when people don't have them available?

Yeah, I was trying to push out as much damage as I could, but there didn't seem to be enough points in the fight after the first 30 seconds or so that I could stop healing to DPS. Could you your logs? I'd love to see how he was able to pull that off.

As for the Warriors, I have no idea why they'd be doing that as they know they should be cleaving down the add. I'll be sure to reiterate the point next week though.