PTR 7.1 Changes to fire.

[Purpleisbetter]

[QUOTE=stevenho;42883117]Got any data to show how "extremely strong" it is compared to other classes?

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If you weren't around, your best shot is to dig thru this forum and look for all the beta discussions.

Logs and whatnot are for sure lost forever.

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Got any data to show how "extremely strong" it is compared to other classes?

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Warlocks need buffs, therefore nerf mages, because logic.
You win.

Their intention is to avoid power creeping.

Pandaria 5.4 race to arms with the cross buffing of most of the classes initiated a clusterf*k of events that had a severe impact in the encounter design aswell.

If the ultimate goal is to magically hit the "everybody within the 5% mark", i personally prefer that dvs achive this by toning down 4, 5 specs rather then buffing up 12 or 13.

Your relative power compared to the other specs won't change. If Blizz magically decides that Destro locks need to be 10% better then fire, you'd end up by whining about Lock being ovrbuffed rather then what you're doing now, complaining about fire overnerf.

I say "you" as in a generic sense, bear with me with that one.

[kavousanos]

Got any data to show how "extremely strong" it is compared to other classes?

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Warlocks need buffs, therefore nerf mages, because logic.
You win.

No. If everyone was buffed to the extend of being comparable to fire mages, bosses in mythic raids would last 3 minutes and mechanics would be invalid for the DPS since.. move while casting while blinking and then double ice blocking. It's mages that need to come down. And this "nerf" does not even begin to scratch the surface.

[MrExcelion]

Don't think the Pyro nerf is necessary tbh, other specs are up there, should have just nerfed the legendary wrists

From a design standpoint I can understand the reluctance to nerf legendaries though

[stevenho]

If you weren't around, your best shot is to dig thru this forum and look for all the beta discussions.

I was "around", I was also in beta. Furthermore, I'm in a habit of simming top players from different classes and specs on regular basis. There are numerous specs that scale just as well as mages,there also are some that do not.
So that's why I'm askign what exactly are you talking about. Like, show me.

[kheath812]

Also its an indirect buff to Aftershocks by 15%, which in turn raises the value of blue flame special so could lift its priority in the artifact over taking ignition overdrive and blast furnace first?

Aftershocks is not affected by BFS.

[Woobels]

Oh comeon!
The fire mages, the new precious puppy of blizzard, who dominate charts and make everyone seem insufficient in 90% of the current content, who have the utility and dmg of 2 classes combined.. they complain of a minor nerf. So you will not be doing 400dps single target but 395..
Meanwhile ele shammies and destro warlocks struggle going over 250 ST, and even for that they have to sacrifice all possible aoe. And don't even get me started on affli. Get real.

How do people get this idea of Fire?

We're really not that strong.

[Elboba]

Molten Armor showing as 20% on PTR and 15% on live.
Its not yet reflecting your crit rate on PTR, hopefully something they swing before patch.

[Toas]

Oh comeon!
The fire mages, the new precious puppy of blizzard, who dominate charts and make everyone seem insufficient in 90% of the current content,

What content are they making every other class seem insufficient in?

Raids? They're upper-middle on 3 fights, top-tier on 3 fights, and middle-ish (below, if anything) on 1 fight. A strong spec, for sure, but other classes are hardly "insufficient" because of it.

Mythic+? Hardly. Maybe at lower mythic+ levels when you're pulling 3 packs at once and getting enormous living bomb damage and the mobs aren't very dangerous. Try doing higher leveled mythic+ and you'll see that fire is nothing special, especially compared to some of the melees (DH, monk, enh). Our damage is only average on pulls of like 3-4 mobs and we don't bring an aoe stun like some other casters do (locks, spriest, ele). If you're playing it safe and only doing one pack at a time in a high mythic+ level, it's likely that spriest and destro will both do pretty comparable damage to fire and bring an AoE stun.

who have the utility and dmg of 2 classes combined

What? What utility is that? Frost nova that breaks basically instantly? Dragon's breath that only serves to make a mob re-start its cast because the disorient breaks instantly? Mage food? Good job you saved the healer 30g. I guess we have polymorph going for us. I'm not really seeing how this is 2 classes "worth" of utility. Compare to something like lock, which brings portal, healthstones, battle res, gateway, an aoe stun, and tons of self-survivability which allows your healer to focus on keeping other people alive.

So you will not be doing 400dps single target but 395.. Meanwhile ele shammies and destro warlocks struggle going over 250 ST

Oh give me a break. The only people doing 400k are like 95th+ percentile people, basically all of whom are insanely geared and probably got lucky with crits. Don't act like every mage is out there doing 400k no problem. And if you can't get over 250 with either destro or ele, then you're either not very geared or you're just bad, sorry. Yes, fire mage obviously does more single target damage than destro and ele do, but it's not as severe as you're making it out to be.

And don't even get me started on affli. Get real.

The spec that just got a crazy amount of buffs on PBE?

[JIMM-]

Oh comeon!
The fire mages, the new precious puppy of blizzard, who dominate charts and make everyone seem insufficient in 90% of the current content, who have the utility and dmg of 2 classes combined.. they complain of a minor nerf. So you will not be doing 400dps single target but 395..
Meanwhile ele shammies and destro warlocks struggle going over 250 ST, and even for that they have to sacrifice all possible aoe. And don't even get me started on affli. Get real.

this guy didnt check what gear all the top parse fire mage was wearing, oh wait all of them had the broken legendary pyroblast wrist that allows them to pull off broken damage.

Not every mage has the legendary, and surprise ! Without the pyroblast wrist legendary fire mages are no longer an outlier. Makes no sense they nerf fire mage as a whole instead of the legendary wrist

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Ahhhh got you, my bad, thanks

Oh my god this is why I don't math right before I go to bed. I mixed formats. 272.55%, I should have done 30*1.15 rather than .3*1.15.

That's embarrassing.

[Spitfiyah]

Hmm.. Pyro gets nerfed by 6% but theres 2 6% Pyroblast relic in NH.. HMMMMMM

Feel like the nerf would get mitigated somewhat. You get 1 6% Arcane and 1 6% Fire relic in NH, even on paper that seems a little OP right now especially with LG wrists. 6% is a good nerf but its too soon to be scaling for NH

[SLSAMG]

I am seeing too a hard nerf to sinew and shock baton, any other see same?

No, I don't see anything that confirms this.

[Maelstrom51]

this guy didnt check what gear all the top parse fire mage was wearing, oh wait all of them had the broken legendary pyroblast wrist that allows them to pull off broken damage.

Not every mage has the legendary, and surprise ! Without the pyroblast wrist legendary fire mages are no longer an outlier. Makes no sense they nerf fire mage as a whole instead of the legendary wrist

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

Meh. Its a 10% dps boost over a stat stick legendary. Big deal. Other classes have much better legendaries.

[BiggestNoob]

The 'shitty' Frost DK is up there with Unholy DKs because he is infact not shitty, he's clearly a good player.

No, he's actually not.

[Cracked]

Molten Armor showing as 20% on PTR and 15% on live.
Its not yet reflecting your crit rate on PTR, hopefully something they swing before patch.

That is a tooltip fix from when they nerfed Critical Mass to 1.1 mult and gave us artificial 5% crit extra.

Hmm.. Pyro gets nerfed by 6% but theres 2 6% Pyroblast relic in NH.. HMMMMMM

Feel like the nerf would get mitigated somewhat. You get 1 6% Arcane and 1 6% Fire relic in NH, even on paper that seems a little OP right now especially with LG wrists. 6% is a good nerf but its too soon to be scaling for NH

1 point in the trait only gives 2% extra, not 6% extra.........

[Woobels]

Hmm.. Pyro gets nerfed by 6% but theres 2 6% Pyroblast relic in NH.. HMMMMMM

Feel like the nerf would get mitigated somewhat. You get 1 6% Arcane and 1 6% Fire relic in NH, even on paper that seems a little OP right now especially with LG wrists. 6% is a good nerf but its too soon to be scaling for NH

Said relic is nerfed by this change.

[Purpleisbetter]

I was "around", I was also in beta. Furthermore, I'm in a habit of simming top players from different classes and specs on regular basis. There are numerous specs that scale just as well as mages,there also are some that do not.
So that's why I'm askign what exactly are you talking about. Like, show me.

We can play this forever.

Can you show me you weren't on the higher end of the spectrum?

[Deleted]

What content are they making every other class seem insufficient in?

Raids? They're upper-middle on 3 fights, top-tier on 3 fights, and middle-ish (below, if anything) on 1 fight. A strong spec, for sure, but other classes are hardly "insufficient" because of it.

Mythic+? Hardly. Maybe at lower mythic+ levels when you're pulling 3 packs at once and getting enormous living bomb damage and the mobs aren't very dangerous. Try doing higher leveled mythic+ and you'll see that fire is nothing special, especially compared to some of the melees (DH, monk, enh). Our damage is only average on pulls of like 3-4 mobs and we don't bring an aoe stun like some other casters do (locks, spriest, ele). If you're playing it safe and only doing one pack at a time in a high mythic+ level, it's likely that spriest and destro will both do pretty comparable damage to fire and bring an AoE stun.



What? What utility is that? Frost nova that breaks basically instantly? Dragon's breath that only serves to make a mob re-start its cast because the disorient breaks instantly? Mage food? Good job you saved the healer 30g. I guess we have polymorph going for us. I'm not really seeing how this is 2 classes "worth" of utility. Compare to something like lock, which brings portal, healthstones, battle res, gateway, an aoe stun, and tons of self-survivability which allows your healer to focus on keeping other people alive.



Oh give me a break. The only people doing 400k are like 95th+ percentile people, basically all of whom are insanely geared and probably got lucky with crits. Don't act like every mage is out there doing 400k no problem. And if you can't get over 250 with either destro or ele, then you're either not very geared or you're just bad, sorry. Yes, fire mage obviously does more single target damage than destro and ele do, but it's not as severe as you're making it out to be.



The spec that just got a crazy amount of buffs on PBE?

PERFECT;notthing else to add

[stevenho]

We can play this forever.

Can you show me you weren't on the higher end of the spectrum?

OK, so you have nothing to show. Just wanted to establish that. Let's move on.

[deadman1]

If they want to nerf the bracers ... nerf the bracers. This is even worse for people without the legendary.