Exactly how good is the Instructor's Fourth Lesson

[kaiserdivus]

I always see posts of how key this legendary is to our viability, but not having it i cannot seem to find anyone with real numbers(not just simcraft) of how much it increases damage.
I was wondering what type of damage increases you lucky enough to have gotten it are seeing in single target and cleave?

[Coldvibes]

The Legendary is basically Castigator and more for free, and effectively turns our rotation into FS-SS-FS-SS etc, and if you have the legendary belt to go with it, you are in for super good times.

[crazed]

I got it a few days ago, and it is ridiculously good. On dummy tests, I averaged about 270k dps before the legendary, and then averaged 310k with it. My rankings also went through the roof on heroic and mythic bosses, you can see how much impact they have had here https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...4211413/latest

I used to be between 80-90th percentile on heroic and mythic bosses, now it's really high. The real value the legendary has is in cleave, I went from 300k average on mythic Ursoc last week to 380k this week. I don't think it's possible to get a high percentile without the bracers honestly, unless you have a different legendary and are really damn good.

[rainzoro]

What's interesting is that many high performers in Warcraftslogs don't have the bracer. So while it IS a dps increase of about 10~15%, it is not the final solution to Everything

[Deleted]

What's interesting is that many high performers in Warcraftslogs don't have the bracer. So while it IS a dps increase of about 10~15%, it is not the final solution to Everything

Better player, less bad rng, less interrupting mechanics... There is a plethora of reasons a player without the bracers can perform better that one who have them. The bracers are the key for unholy and that's for sure.

[Marx]

Oh the things I would do for those wrists...

[ScreddyLoix]

They are too good and it seems like Blizzard decided to balance the spec around them.

[Flextt]

Better player, less bad rng, less interrupting mechanics... There is a plethora of reasons a player without the bracers can perform better that one who have them. The bracers are the key for unholy and that's for sure.

Also boosting is a thing in the higher ranks. Skip the first 100-200 ranks and avoid highly inflated ilvl brackets.

[Deleted]

What's interesting is that many high performers in Warcraftslogs don't have the bracer. So while it IS a dps increase of about 10~15%, it is not the final solution to Everything

This is simply not ture, 95% of the top 20 on ursoc own the bracer. I chose ursoc for comparison as it is mostly single target and because of that easy to compare. And to be sure anyone who performs well on ursoc has the potential to perform very well on fights that require add/bomb dps.

Ursoc mythic on warcraftlogs quite can be seen as a ranking of legendary power levels, you just simply will not be able to reach the top without the right legendary/ies or absolutely stupid rng luck, period.

[Deleted]

They are good, but it´s surely not +10-15% dmg from the legendary effect alone.
Infact, my simmed dps, when upgrading from 880 bracers, went up by about 18k (6%). In my logs I sometimes got barely higher dps than with castigator + without the bracers, sometimes I got + 50k dps. So the RNG is just a way bigger factor here.

If you upgrade from shit bracers, then 10% avg is surely possible, but that is partially from the ilvl then.

And they also become worse the better your gear gets, since you cannot efficiently combine the bracers with castigator, which is the only decently scaling talent option that DKs have in that row.

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This is simply not ture, 95% of the top 20 on ursoc own the bracer. I chose ursoc for comparison as it is mostly single target and because of that easy to compare. And to be sure anyone who performs well on ursoc has the potential to perform very well on fights that require add/bomb dps.

Ursoc mythic on warcraftlogs quite can be seen as a ranking of legendary power levels, you just simply will not be able to reach the top without the right legendary/ies or absolutely stupid rng luck, period.

That is because the Top20 logs are all done with favorable RNG, and with favorable RNG the bracers become really good.
Especially when you get multiple +5wound proccs in your opening burst window.

[Deleted]

They are good, but it´s surely not +10-15% dmg from the legendary effect alone.
Infact, my simmed dps, when upgrading from 880 bracers, went up by about 18k (6%). In my logs I sometimes got barely higher dps than with castigator + without the bracers, sometimes I got + 50k dps. So the RNG is just a way bigger factor here.

If you upgrade from shit bracers, then 10% avg is surely possible, but that is partially from the ilvl then.

And they also become worse the better your gear gets, since you cannot efficiently combine the bracers with castigator, which is the only decently scaling talent option that DKs have in that row.

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That is because the Top20 logs are all done with favorable RNG, and with favorable RNG the bracers become really good.
Especially when you get multiple +5wound proccs in your opening burst window.

Of course you can combine them with castigator, that is exactly what all high parsers do. BS, Cast and Infected Claws is the high end unholy cookie cutter, its just too good and bracer with belt/good ring just enhance this.

Sure there is rng involved in top parses, but only to a lesser extend, otherwise you would find a meaningfull amount of players without any or with bad legendaries. Yes, rng will make up around 20k from try to try, but not 100k as you make it sound.

The Bracers are that good, even more with the belt/ring.

[0verdose]

It's the key to unholy's viability as a mid tier dps spec. It's the only item that can bring us up from the bottom to mid tiers. That is how important it is. Pretty stupid on blizz to make our utmost potiential gated by a fricken rng and a legendary item. Kind of a slap in the face if you ask me.

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I got it a few days ago, and it is ridiculously good. On dummy tests, I averaged about 270k dps before the legendary, and then averaged 310k with it. My rankings also went through the roof on heroic and mythic bosses, you can see how much impact they have had here https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...4211413/latest

I used to be between 80-90th percentile on heroic and mythic bosses, now it's really high. The real value the legendary has is in cleave, I went from 300k average on mythic Ursoc last week to 380k this week. I don't think it's possible to get a high percentile without the bracers honestly, unless you have a different legendary and are really damn good.

Holy crap yeah, I'm around the same ilvl as you (869) and all of my kills are in the 80-90% I seem to be hitting a brick wall dps wise, can't seem to take it to the next level without bracers or the ring or belt. I have the crappy legendary ring now so it doesn't make much of a difference.To see your kills go from that to 99 percentile after bracers is insane. I need them bracers!

[bungie]

What's interesting is that many high performers in Warcraftslogs don't have the bracer. So while it IS a dps increase of about 10~15%, it is not the final solution to Everything

You're probably just reading warcraftlogs wrong, all the highest parses have it. It is is literally the top legendary for every top 10 unholy parse on WCL.

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

Of course you can combine them with castigator, that is exactly what all high parsers do. BS, Cast and Infected Claws is the high end unholy cookie cutter, its just too good and bracer with belt/good ring just enhance this.

Sure there is rng involved in top parses, but only to a lesser extend, otherwise you would find a meaningfull amount of players without any or with bad legendaries. Yes, rng will make up around 20k from try to try, but not 100k as you make it sound.

The Bracers are that good, even more with the belt/ring.

So Unholy frenzy is a bad talent with the bracers? I quite like it. Should I go for full crit/haste and use castigator with those bracers?

Thank you

[Deleted]

So Unholy frenzy is a bad talent with the bracers? I quite like it. Should I go for full crit/haste and use castigator with those bracers?

Thank you

I never said it isnt, please read again carefully what i wrote. I said it is an very good performing talent combination if you do not have the bracers, and even if you have the bracers it is still absolutely valid, just check the logs. Never did i state that Unholy frenzy is a bad talent if you have the bracers. There are enough parses on wcl to show that it is.

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

I never said it isnt, please read again carefully what i wrote. I said it is an very good performing talent combination if you do not have the bracers, and even if you have the bracers it is still absolutely valid, just check the logs. Never did i state that Unholy frenzy is a bad talent if you have the bracers. There are enough parses on wcl to show that it is.

The thing is - if I would like to minmax my dps as much as possible - what talent choice for single target is the best? Considering you have the bracers...

Because with my stats (24% crit, 22% haste, 39% mastery) Simcraft sims Unholy Frenzy + All Will Serve as best single target choice.

But I have heard a lot of people saying that Bursting Sores + Castigator should be better even for single target.

[0verdose]

The thing is - if I would like to minmax my dps as much as possible - what talent choice for single target is the best? Considering you have the bracers...

Because with my stats (24% crit, 22% haste, 39% mastery) Simcraft sims Unholy Frenzy + All Will Serve as best single target choice.

But I have heard a lot of people saying that Bursting Sores + Castigator should be better even for single target.

Bursting sores is better than aws when you have the bracers. You pop more wounds in general so it's definitely the better of the talents.