Germany shootings: Four police officers shot by 'far-right extremist'

[Noradin]

The purpose of the gun safe is to keep the guns secure, not to keep people safe.
His violations of the licence did not cause a danger to others to arise.

It did, statistically.
And it demonstrated that he didn't have the required mindset to be allowed to possess a gun.

[ranzino]

It did, statistically.
And it demonstrated that he didn't have the required mindset to be allowed to possess a gun.

Fair guess that will be questioned in court.

[Noradin]

Fair guess that will be questioned in court.

How so?
It is a pretty clear cut case.
He broke the law, obstructed officers doing their duty and illegally possessed a gun.
Then he shot and killed an officer.

[ranzino]

It did, statistically.
And it demonstrated that he didn't have the required mindset to be allowed to possess a gun.

Disliking government is not a missing mindset.

[Deleted]

I understand the reasoning for wanting to figure out his weapon situation.

But based off what I've read it seems they went up and over the top with it. Idk. A peaceful approach with police may have been the better option.

They tried to do it peacefully, the police went there to execute a warrant, but the guy being a nutjob who doesn't acknowledge the BRD, doesn't acknowledge these police either. These police officers managed to overpower this individual without killing him and arrested him, how much more peaceful could they have done this? Should they have baked a cake?

[ranzino]

They tried to do it peacefully, the police went there to execute a warrant, but the guy being a nutjob who doesn't acknowledge the BRD, doesn't acknowledge these police either. These police officers managed to overpower this individual without killing him and arrested him, how much more peaceful could they have done this? Should they have baked a cake?

They stormed his house with a ram. Doesnt count as peaceful in my book.

[Revi]

It's weird how when it's a gun suddenly it's okey to use break a whole bunch of laws to keep it illegally.

What if it were explosives? Would it be unreasonable for the government to have laws on who can keep it in their house then?

[Deleted]

They stormed his house with a ram. Doesnt count as peaceful in my book.

After trying it peacefully...

[Noradin]

Disliking government is not a missing mindset.

"Disliking the government" wasn't what lost him the privilege to possess guns, not meeting the requirements for gun ownership did.

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They stormed his house with a ram. Doesnt count as peaceful in my book.

Yes, that was the last resort after the peaceful attempts failed.

[JohnBrown1917]

Whelp, one thing this thread showed me is that some Americans really are as insane about "guberment taking mah gunz" as the stereotypes I thought they were exagerated for comic effect but no; people really are that mental.

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Go back to Captain Flashheart it always made me smile

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitAmericansSay/new/

A lot of them exist.

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You people and your gun phobias.

I rather enjoy our low gun crime rate here, no reason to risk it.

[cFortyfive]

Disliking government is not a missing mindset.

He doesn't just dislike the government. Nonetheless this wasn't the reason for what happened.

They stormed his house with a ram. Doesnt count as peaceful in my book.

Well seems like you were able to read that part so you should be able to read the part over ignoring earlier attempts of normal resolution of the situation as well.

[sarahtasher]

I hate to bring startling news, people, but here it is.

1)US laws are not international, especially not the second amendment, which is such a good idea that only one country have it,
2)For the first decades of it's modern existence, Germany proved abundantly that it did not needed, at all, a ''well ordained militia'' : they had a conscription army. There is no ''gun culture'' in German. There is certainly not a mythology of ''fighting the gubinment'' while hiding in shacks in inexistant wastelands, because, that's going to startle you, but most governments in Europe actually find it pretty illegal to conspire against the government.
3)Even if you find them stupid and SJW, German gun laws, which are not especially harsh for Europe, are laws. You are supposed to follow them, even if you have a big gun.

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They stormed his house with a ram. Doesnt count as peaceful in my book.

Oh yes, once again : someone with mental health problems or under the influence is not obeying the police at once : ''feral thug, put down the animal''
A nut with Nazi cosplay and dozens of guns fire on the police : the police provoked him, by thinking his holy and sacred guns.

[Kubaal]

In the USA we call this type of event Tuesday. And a majority of people praise the action.

[Deleted]

It did, statistically.
And it demonstrated that he didn't have the required mindset to be allowed to possess a gun.

An unjust act does not become just because later actions validated it.

[TwoNineMarine]

They tried to do it peacefully, the police went there to execute a warrant, but the guy being a nutjob who doesn't acknowledge the BRD, doesn't acknowledge these police either. These police officers managed to overpower this individual without killing him and arrested him, how much more peaceful could they have done this? Should they have baked a cake?

Kill his power, his water, force him out.

Unless he had a person in there, someone he could hurt, then he really was no threat to anyone.

You know... it makes much more sense when you write the word right in all upper caps. So instead of "they think it's a right" you'd write "they think it's a RIGHT" and suddenly it all makes sens...

Nope, sorry. You're still just repeating his point, which is that only you lot that think that way.

Edit: And for giggles... did I write right right? Omg, the english language, never ceases to amuse...

Just because you feel that the 2nd Amendment isn't a RIGHT then that is fine. I really don't mind. And I'll caps it to showcase how important a RIGHT it is. Just like the 1st Amendment is a RIGHT. And equally important, if not more important one, in my opinion.

He refused to comply with the two 'nice' requests.

Yeah that's what some people said. Seems like a raid on his house was a bit much though.

Can you prove that anyone here is actually a US gun owner?

I am! I am!

Don't be dense. You know there are a fair amount on here. Just look back at 90% of the threads you post in.

[josykay]

An unjust act does not become just because later actions validated it.

He signed away his right to have those guns, be refusing to cooperate with the authorities. There is no right, granting everyone the right to own guns like in the USA. the privilege is granted by the state under certain conditions, which includes to let some inspectors in, showing that you lawfully handle your guns. He refused that, and therefore his right to have those guns was revoked.

[Deleted]

Kill his power, his water, force him out.

Unless he had a person in there, someone he could hurt, then he really was no threat to anyone.

Right like they do in America?

[Slant]

By all means, please enlighten us. God forbid you add anything of worth here.

The thing about psychology is that it's a soft science. You can't put a number on when someone's going to go psycho. Your "OMG! HE'S ABOUT TO GO ON A RAMPAGE!!!" is someone else's "oh he's just venting."

I don't argue that. The 2nd doesn't apply to us owning military equipment. Over here the Constitution is the final say but it's up to our Supreme Court to determine if a law is in conflict with the constitution. Not sure how it works over there so I can't make a judgement but I'm guessing it's the same.

When someone clearly denies the authority of the state that includes regulation concerning gun ownership. Whether or not you're in the US or in Germany, that alone removes any legitimacy to his possessing a gun. As for the insanity claim. Denying Germanys existance despite living in it... well, if you can't see the insanity in that, I can't help you. We try to prevent problems instead of whinging over them after the fact. We're a continent that's easily 2k years older than the US. We have a little bit more experience with how shit can go wrong. We're done with "Let's wait and see" and moved to "Let's not wait and see, he's batshit crazy, let's disarm that idiot before someone else gets hurt."

As those shootings in the US prove, some over there are still quite resilient to common sense. But go ahead and tell us how those guys doing mass shootings on a daily basis "were just venting... oh no, oops, he wasn't. My bad."

There is no right to vent. I know Americans will literally defend any idiocy in the name of free speech, but we've actually seen every idiocy possible in Europe already. We're pretty tired of it and try to actually make it better. We're doing a pretty dang job, too, I think.

And the last paragraph really exposes the binary black/white thinking you have. You put the constitution on one side, the supreme court in the middle and the common law on the other side. You're not even thinking about the most important bit, where the constitution is on both sides of the equation. That's where it gets messy. Trust me, the constitution is not the final say in anything. It just isn't. Situations are created every day where the constitution actually contradicts itself. How do you allow the 2nd amendment when life is threatened with the gun possessed under the 2nd amendment? The common law always follows the constitution, you don't need a supreme court to know that. You need the supreme court to figure out that when a common law is meant to protect life or society and it restricts the 2nd amendment, which is more important in that incident... the 2nd amendment or the constitutional civil rights that common law is meant to protect?

I don't know how US constitutional law actually works, but surely it can't be as mindnumbingly stupid as just following the letter of the law no matter what? I'd shred that piece of paper up within one page of argument if that was the case. A democracy is based on compromise. And that includes compromising on the 2nd amendment if a more important civil right (like the right to live) opposes it. Surely the 2nd amendment steps back to civil liberties that are anchored in the constitution itself.

And no, it's not nearly as half-baked here. We actually have a modern constitution that was well designed by lawyers with certain historic context in mind and it's logically developed. Unlike most early constitutions and bills of rights that are centuries old by now. We've had the advantage of knowing what works and what doesn't work, so things are actually a lot clearer over here. And one thing that we put down in writing is that all force comes from the state. There is no provision for civil defense or whatever the 2nd amendmenters are babbling about. Militias are not allowed here. This is not to diss the US, but to contrast the different historical contexts.

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Just because you feel that the 2nd Amendment isn't a RIGHT then that is fine. I really don't mind. And I'll caps it to showcase how important a RIGHT it is. Just like the 1st Amendment is a RIGHT. And equally important, if not more important one, in my opinion.

Dude, you know I can't take you seriously when you keep using upper case to write RIGHT, right? Right now, I think you're a religious fanatic totally out of touch with anything that could be a base for an actual discussion. You don't care, you're probably not even thinking about what I'm saying or why I'm phrasing shit the way I am. You're already seeing red and your pulse is pumping adrenaline through the veins because you think I'm trying to take your gun away from you.

Now, now, big boy. I'm not trying to steal your toy. If you can calm down for just a second, I'll tell you what I think. But before I do that, I'd like you to ask me nicely. Not attack me or insult me or go on yet another religious rant about the god of guns, er... I meant the 2nd amendment. Ask nicely, like a civilised person.

[Mayhem]

I am! I am!

Don't be dense. You know there are a fair amount on here. Just look back at 90% of the threads you post in.

That wasn´t really the point.

[Mormolyce]

Because cracking down on people with lots of guns will calm things right down...

Yeah they should be allowed to roam free.