Americans work 25% more than Europeans

[Shadowferal]

OK, but an adult shouldn't be making minimum wage. I'm sorry, but if you're going to not even have the motivation to get yourself a job that is 1 tier above a McJob, then yeah that's what you get. And even if you're an adult working a McJob, you should still at least be a few bucks above minimum wage.

Maybe it would be a good idea if they changed the minimum wage for anyone who is 18 or older to be a little bit higher. But a 14 year old kid does not need to be making $12/hour. That's for damn sure.

It's not about motivation. If you've ever been poor you already know that it sucks hard and is every bit a kick in the ass to get moving to something better.
It's more about pricing education beyond those that simply can't afford it. Especially when you know that you won't have anyone to help you other than...you. No government service to help, no family...nothing. That means to survive you try to get any job you can.

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So americans work 25% more, and yet their country is still a shithole compared to pretty much any EU country? Just another proof how dumb americans are.

Shows how much the corporate schills have been successful in turning the people into little better than wage slaves.

[Grishnaar]

I really wish more companies operated like mine do...especially when it comes to rewarding efficiency.

RCO Operators are paid a basic day of about $315 for all hours worked up to 8. If the operator works through his/her lunch period and works more than 7 hours they're paid $35 extra on the day, and if they end up working even one minute past 8 hours the overtime clock starts. However many of those operators choose to leave early instead of taking the extra pay.

Basically a normal RCO Job works like this:

Job starts at 0800

Job completes all available tasks assigned by 1430

Crew stores their belongings, files any last minute paper work, and changes clothes.

Crew clocks out and goes home at 1500.

Crew makes $315 for a 7 hour day or $45/hour

Meanwhile, in Croatia, at a fairly decent job.

You wake up at 6:30, get to work a bit before 8AM. You work until 4PM and go home.
repeat 5 days a week, for a month.

Get paid around 2€/hour.

Woot woot!

[Deleted]

I have a problem with 19%=25%, but oh well...

[Docturphil]

Not really, but I appreciate the input. Someone who admits to having a good upbringing saying hey guys, its down to you to make it, don't blame your poverty stricken upbringing is the height of ridiculousness.

Yes I had a decent upbringing. Like I said though, I paid for my own education.

And btw, my mom had a shit upbringing. Her mom was a drunk and always had different drunken boyfriends that beat her and her siblings. They were piss poor. So please tell me, how did she do well for herself? Please explain that one to me. Was she just lucky? Did she just stumble upon a suitcase full of money? No, she busted her ass, paid for her own education, and made something of herself. Anyone else can do the same.

[Holofernes]

There are multiple links on this page showing that this isn't the case - the only European countries that have higher per hour production than the United States are Norway and Luxembourg, which aren't exactly representative. Americans are about 13% more productive than Germans on a per hour basis and work significantly more.

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On a total income basis, the US is way ahead. On a per hour basis, it's still significantly ahead, just not by as wide of a margin. There's no measure by which American productivity doesn't greatly outstrip European counterparts.

All those links are fraud. They dont consider the european actual earnings. The salary / pay for a worker in european countries is about double as high as those stattistics say. They dont facter in 13th and 14th salary (yes most europeans work 12 month and get 13, in some countries 14 salarys). They dont factor in the employer taxes and social security and sickness / pension / unemployed insurence, generally speaking the gross income of a employed worker has to be roughly doubled to all those taxes and insurance costs, when u are assessing his productivity. A european worker has double the productivity your statistic says, because the employer has double the cost per employee your statisics base on.

The comparison with this us way of statistics could only be made if cost for welfare , social insurance, pensions, medical service and health insurance, school and university fundings, roadbilding, public transport was all free and all included in the working costs. People in europe earn a lot more than their paycheck says, but its all hidden in taxes and insurance, that us people have to pay on their own. So of course, Us net is higher, but their net is worthless compared to a European Net, because of all this additional community and social cost.

[Shadowferal]

Yes I had a decent upbringing. Like I said though, I paid for my own education.

And btw, my mom had a shit upbringing. Her mom was a drunk and always had different drunken boyfriends that beat her and her siblings. They were piss poor. So please tell me, how did she do well for herself? Please explain that one to me. Was she just lucky? Did she just stumble upon a suitcase full of money? No, she busted her ass, paid for her own education, and made something of herself. Anyone else can do the same.

No.
It's this shitty fucked up logic that imagines that everyone can do as one person because...reasons.

You're just saying anything...

[Docturphil]

No.
It's this shitty fucked up logic that imagines that everyone can do as one person because...reasons.

You're just saying anything...

One person? What about my mom's sister and brother? They did well for themselves too. Sure there was one uncle who was in and out of prison all his life, but the rest of them did fine coming from a pretty shitty upbringing.

My point is not that being poor doesn't have the potential to negatively effect your success in life. My point is that it doesn't have to. You absolutely can do just fine in America coming from poverty. You just need the will and motivation to do so.

People whine and complain about how tough it can be in America. But stop for a second, take a step back, and look at other parts of the world. Imagine for a second what it's like in a 2nd or 3rd world country. We have it pretty good here and compared to other countries, your complaints about poverty are pretty pathetic to be quite honest. There is more than enough opportunity here where almost no one has the right to complain about their situation. Almost...

Now, it's great that people strive to make our country even better. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I think people need to complain less and be a little more grateful for the opportunity that they do have.

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It's not about motivation. If you've ever been poor you already know that it sucks hard and is every bit a kick in the ass to get moving to something better.
It's more about pricing education beyond those that simply can't afford it. Especially when you know that you won't have anyone to help you other than...you. No government service to help, no family...nothing. That means to survive you try to get any job you can.

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Shows how much the corporate schills have been successful in turning the people into little better than wage slaves.

Wrong, anyone can afford education. You don't have to go to Yale or Harvard to be successful. There are plenty of community colleges out there that are very affordable. And anyone can take out a loan. You don't have to pay a dime until you finish your education. It can be done, and it's not that difficult.

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So americans work 25% more, and yet their country is still a shithole compared to pretty much any EU country? Just another proof how dumb americans are.

Sorry... what? You seem to be very uninformed. First of all, the average IQ of America vs most of Europe is about the same. If anyone has the right to call anyone dumb, it's much of eastern Asia, not Europe.

Second of all, a shithole compared to pretty much any EU country? Are you trolling or just stupid? There are quite a few second world countries in Europe. Pretty much the entire eastern half of Europe...

Please get your facts straight before posting again.

[Vizardlorde]

One person? What about my mom's sister and brother? They did well for themselves too. Sure there was one uncle who was in and out of prison all his life, but the rest of them did fine coming from a pretty shitty upbringing.

My point is not that being poor doesn't have the potential to negatively effect your success in life. My point is that it doesn't have to. You absolutely can do just fine in America coming from poverty. You just need the will and motivation to do so.

People whine and complain about how tough it can be in America. But stop for a second, take a step back, and look at other parts of the world. Imagine for a second what it's like in a 2nd or 3rd world country. We have it pretty good here and compared to other countries, your complaints about poverty are pretty pathetic to be quite honest. There is more than enough opportunity here where almost no one has the right to complain about their situation. Almost...

Now, it's great that people strive to make our country even better. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I think people need to complain less and be a little more grateful for the opportunity that they do have.

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Wrong, anyone can afford education. You don't have to go to Yale or Harvard to be successful. There are plenty of community colleges out there that are very affordable. And anyone can take out a loan. You don't have to pay a dime until you finish your education. It can be done, and it's not that difficult.

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Sorry... what? You seem to be very uninformed. First of all, the average IQ of America vs most of Europe is about the same. If anyone has the right to call anyone dumb, it's much of eastern Asia, not Europe.

Second of all, a shithole compared to pretty much any EU country? Are you trolling or just stupid? There are quite a few second world countries in Europe. Pretty much the entire eastern half of Europe...

Please get your facts straight before posting again.

to be fair there's 2nd world sections of US sitting in the shadow of Successful cities cause jobs pay too low and living expenses are too high or they are just crimeridden *cough * Detroit *cough*.

[Masark]

I really wish more companies operated like mine do...especially when it comes to rewarding efficiency.

RCO Operators are paid a basic day of about $315 for all hours worked up to 8. If the operator works through his/her lunch period and works more than 7 hours they're paid $35 extra on the day, and if they end up working even one minute past 8 hours the overtime clock starts. However many of those operators choose to leave early instead of taking the extra pay.

Basically a normal RCO Job works like this:

Job starts at 0800

Job completes all available tasks assigned by 1430

Crew stores their belongings, files any last minute paper work, and changes clothes.

Crew clocks out and goes home at 1500.

Crew makes $315 for a 7 hour day or $45/hour

If you're getting things done early, obviously the crew is too large and can be Rightsized to allow for higher profits.

[Captain N]

If you're getting things done early, obviously the crew is too large and can be Rightsized to allow for higher profits.

Until that RCO Operator crashed into another train since he's 30 cars back making joints and can't see where he's going.

[Noradin]

Value of goods and services produced is literally how productivity is measured.

And that does measure only those products and services that get paid for with money, things like social security and savety of the neighbourhood provided by the police doesn't get reflected in those numbers.

[belfpala]

If you're getting things done early, obviously the crew is too large and can be Rightsized to allow for higher profits.

Doesn't work that way in all businesses.

[THE Bigzoman]

And that does measure only those products and services that get paid for with money, things like social security and savety of the neighbourhood provided by the police doesn't get reflected in those numbers.

So your entire beef is that government expenditures and intangibles aren't directly measured and reflected in the figures?

The figures are taken from GDP, which includes government expenditures net taxes. So the idea that social security spending isn't included is bullshit.

Why does the second part matter? We're comparing productivities between U.S and Euro workers here. Are you suggesting that Euro workers are more productive because they outperform the U.S on subjective measures like "savety of the neighborhood"?

How convenient.

[Noradin]

So your entire beef is that government expenditures and intangibles aren't directly measured and reflected in the figures?

The figures are taken from GDP, which includes government expenditures net taxes. So the idea that social security spending isn't included is bullshit.

Why does the second part matter? We're comparing productivities between U.S and Euro workers here. Are you suggesting that Euro workers are more productive because they outperform the U.S on subjective measures like "savety of the neighborhood"?

How convenient.

No, I was saying that it only counts things that explicitly come with a price tag, and no, social security is not just a subjective measure, it can be measured objectively.

[Luxxor]

Its also why Europe is crumbling around your ears with the exception of some hard working countries..cough Germany cough

[NoRest4Wicked]

Maybe it's just how my company works then. There are times where I work over 40 or come in on my day off. But if I do I leave early or get comp days and take an extra day off at another time. There really needs to be better focus on quality of life in this country.

I work for a pretty big tech company/defense contractor and I rarely ever (once every 3-4 months maybe) put in more than 40 hours a week. When I do have to stay late/come in after hours (we support a 24/7 operations center) I get that time back as days off later in the pay period. Heck, I'd say of the 15 people I graduated with I keep in contact with, this is the norm. Small sample size, and I know there is a big culture of slaving away overtime and never taking vacation, but I don't see it at my job. My bosses will make us take weeks off if we are too close to our cap or are about to hit the calendar year and still have DTO left.

[Shadowferal]

One person? What about my mom's sister and brother? They did well for themselves too. Sure there was one uncle who was in and out of prison all his life, but the rest of them did fine coming from a pretty shitty upbringing.

Sounds like you still had a roof over your head as well as the basics covered.
Don't you comprehend what that means?
You. Had. Help.
A lot of us didn't/don't even have that much.
Or to repeat: [I]No government service to help, no family...nothing.

There is no college in this. Too damn busy paying for those basics that you obviously didn't have to worry about.

[Mormolyce]

This has been rehashed a dozen times in this thread. Those aren't the nations to compare to - they're tiny, homogenous, and have unusual niche economies. The nations to reasonably compare to are Germany, France, Italy, and the UK.

How "productive" is defined isn't actually some deep mystery. I've already replied to this exact quibble at least a half dozen times in this thread.

So basically you're posting stats and saying we should ignore half of them because the countries are small.

Your definition of productive appears to be based on income, in which case the fact US workers aren't getting paid 25% more than their peers must mean they're being stiffed pretty hard. I don't even know what point you're trying to make really.

I'll tell you where there's no free lunch - if your workforce is complacent and leery of using collective bargaining then they get to work longer hours for less pay. At least on the lower end. If US workers want better conditions they'd better rethink this culture of "the boss is king". That's the real difference between the US and Europe.

[Mayhem]

Sweden has a larger population than Germany. Honestly, I think you're just cherry picking.

... uhm, how sure are you about that?

[Mormolyce]

... uhm, how sure are you about that?

Oops! Let me fix that.