Blizzard is a game developer, not a licensed medical professional.

[TITAN308]

And again.

Discuss the topic? Nah. Lets just jump to, "I'm carrying!!" like a Hanzo main.

Lets call a spade a spade if we are going to have an honest conversation.

My personal solution? Make a heroic version of CoS, Arc, and Kara. No argument from me if they did this.

[Deleted]

What if I don't want to carry you?

Then invite four guys from your guild, friend list, LFG group, group finder, and enter that premade group into the dungeon finder. Problem solved. Everyone's happy.

[TITAN308]

Then invite four guys from your guild, friend list, LFG group, group finder, and enter that premade group into the dungeon finder. Problem solved. Everyone's happy.

For the record, as I said it before, I don't personally care if regular mythics were put in the queue system. I'm just baffled by all the people who think putting together a group or joining one is some sort of great mental feat to be conquered. Instead of having a game developer put in the extra time and effort to accommodate their social problems, I just wish the players would take the initiative more.

As I also said before, most of the excuses are either personal choices or outright lies about the current system.

[Katchii]

Access is already easy, so that is where you argument falls a part.

You don't want easy. You want automated.

I said easier. Automated = easier than what it is now. Argument still holds.

Why are you so against it? What does it do to you? Why is automated bad? All it does it give access to a much larger group of people. Your experience isn't impacted...at all. You can still make your little group with whatever ilevel requirement you want and then queue as a group using the LFG tool, or continue searching for and applying to however many groups it takes before you finally get accepted. Everybody wins in this case.

[lordjust]

What millions of people? The ones you made up, or the handful of people who want to stroke their own cocks about how "skilled" they are?

Mythics in Legion are like Mythics in WoD. Outgearing the damn thing in less than two weeks is why people think it's easy.

Go into one now with Heroic 5 man gear (820?) and tell me it's anything like a WoD heroic.

Problem is that ilvl alone isn't the only thing to consider. I see DPS that do only 100k with 860 ilvl because they have a low artifact level or unlocked the wrong traits first that don't give a DPS increase. On the other hand I see healer in 830 gear that get bored in mythic dungeons because they're easy. There's nothing that requires an organized group in a normal mythic dungeon. There are no hard mechanics that require communication in the group. Vault of the wardens needs more communication for the last boss than any boss in arcway or court of stars. It's tank and spank, get out of glowing stuff on the ground and that's it.

It makes sense that you can't queue for mythic+ because you need communication to manage the group cd to beat the timer. Same goes for normal and higher difficulty raids because you need to do certain mechanics. An unorganized group will never beat ursoc. But normal mythic dungeons are easy and there's no reason why you shouldn't queue for them.

[Xenyatta]

I never liked the idea of making my own groups. I found it easier to just do my own thing but if I want to succeed AT ALL, I learned I had to bite the bullet and make my own stuff.

I'll see which ones I want to do, I'll spend 10 minutes or so queueing up for those I'm a match for. I get in, great. I don't, time to make my own group. It's really no where near as bad as I thought it would be. In my time of making my own groups, I queue as DPS and I control the ilvl and make up of the people joining. I generally like to keep it around 840-850 but I have taken 825's too depending on the class and what they're capable of. Only once has someone raged and left and only once has a group broken up because 3 out of the 5 were totally green and had no idea what they were doing so they made a quick run like torture (but no raging) out of like 30+ groups I've made or been part of. Most people have this, "We're in this together" kinda mentality. Honestly I've been really surprised with how little ass hattery I've seen.

[MrKnubbles]

I actually much prefer searching for a group or starting my own than sitting in a random queue. You get into groups faster and have more control over what type of group you get.

[Katchii]

For the record, as I said it before, I don't personally care if regular mythics were put in the queue system. I'm just baffled by all the people who think putting together a group or joining one is some sort of great mental feat to be conquered. Instead of having a game developer put in the extra time and effort to accommodate their social problems, I just wish the players would take the initiative more.

Who says we haven't? Maybe we're just not interested in doing that anymore?

As I've stated before, I've TRIED applying to groups, I've TRIED creating my own and am simply not interested in continuing to do so. It's boring, tedious, and most importantly, not fun babysitting the Group Finder and/ or applying to dozens of groups and getting denied.

This has very little to do with people and the projected psychological problems you seem to think they have. It's about people who just don't care enough about the game to spend time in the game doing shit that isn't fun when there are other games or other things to do that are.

Again, how would making base Mythic available on LFG be a bad thing?

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I actually much prefer searching for a group or starting my own than sitting in a random queue. You get into groups faster and have more control over what type of group you get.

My experience has been vastly different in Legion. But I have seen it work this way in the past, and work this way right now in other games, and you have a point; when you are able to get/ make a group it can take less time than it would in a random queue.

[Snuffleupagus]

See, at least this addresses the topic.

I might not entirely agree (If your scenario turned out to be true, ultimately I don't know who cares if Mythic+0 is nerfed at this point, to be honest. 845 is now in the "months behind" category anyway, and anyone that's "elite" is so far beyond it that they couldn't possibly care I would think) but at least it's something to discuss.

The content nerfs itself over time as tier come out and gear levels increase. Nerfing the content while it's current takes a shit all over the effort that people put in to clear it early. Obviously hotfixes and balancing don't really factor in here, just the blanket nerfing that Blizzard like to do to appease bad players.

Maybe if they added queues for the previous tier of Mythic content it might ease things, but past behaviour on these forums alone indicates that we'd immediately see requests for M+ queues, N+ raiding queues, etc.

You give an inch, they take a mile.

There has to be a line drawn in the sand, and Mythic0 is it.

The real issue is that people playing queued content feel that they get no reward in the form of titles/mounts/appearances. But instead of clamoring to get in on organised PVE rewards, the response that would have seen much less negativity would have been to ask for LFR/LFD specific rewards.

[Snuffleupagus]

Problem is that ilvl alone isn't the only thing to consider. I see DPS that do only 100k with 860 ilvl because they have a low artifact level or unlocked the wrong traits first that don't give a DPS increase. On the other hand I see healer in 830 gear that get bored in mythic dungeons because they're easy. There's nothing that requires an organized group in a normal mythic dungeon. There are no hard mechanics that require communication in the group. Vault of the wardens needs more communication for the last boss than any boss in arcway or court of stars. It's tank and spank, get out of glowing stuff on the ground and that's it.

It makes sense that you can't queue for mythic+ because you need communication to manage the group cd to beat the timer. Same goes for normal and higher difficulty raids because you need to do certain mechanics. An unorganized group will never beat ursoc. But normal mythic dungeons are easy and there's no reason why you shouldn't queue for them.

No group is fully pugging Mythic0 in 820 gear, which is Heroic level. Even if you factor in WQ gear, that's maybe 830 average, which an unorganised group is not doing. You show me a group of random average players (which is what Blizzard has to account for in queued content) doing Mythic0 in 830 gear and no organisation, and I will reconsider my view.

People need to stop looking at the trivially fast clears that people in 850+ gear are doing.

[Deleted]

I just don't understand this asinine view that an MMO is a game where you're supposed to socialize with a whole bunch of people and belong to a big guild and run big group content, instead of it just being a game where a whole bunch of people play the way they want to play, and interact with each other in different ways, just like in the real world.

This whole goddamn "hey let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya together" -mentality and pushing social this and social that needs to die. First of all, not all cultures and people in the world are extremely social and outgoing. Come to Finland. I think you'll be quite surprised. While we, as a nation and as a people aren't boisterous and loud and hyperactive and manic, that doesn't mean we're somehow "introverted" or that we have some kind of "social disorders". Nah, we've just realized there's a better, and more suitable way for us to be and coexist. Secondly, manufactured social interaction is complete bullshit. It should be allowed to happen naturally and spontaneously. Not by forcing or pushing people into such situations, and by incentivising those situations so that people feel like shit and like they're missing out, or being ostracized and treated like second grade citizens.

Just put the mythic dungeons on the dungeon finder so people can join a queue without having to explain themselves to some random elitist asshole, and if someone leaves, a replacement is simple to get and nobody gets locked out of half of the bosses for that instance. Those people who absolutely have to run with an overgeared group (talk about easy mode) can then search for those high ilvl guys using the tools they have currently. But the rest can do those goddamn mythic quests there's like 305123 of in the game without having to go through all this BS.

Even if you factor in WQ gear, that's maybe 830 average

Yeah... On my warrior, I've got ilvl 853 with 0 mythic runs, 0 raids, 1 LFR Xavius kill for the quest so I got my achievement and from which I got nothing, 1 heroic run from which I got nothing, and even 0 crafted gear. All my gear is from world quests, including the piss easy world bosses that you can just tap and be done with it without joining a group, as well as the class set, and the 855 helmet from the Illidan questline. My warrior has maybe only 10d /played on 110. I went above 830 probably like in the first couple of days of hitting 110.

[Katchii]

No group is fully pugging Mythic0 in 820 gear, which is Heroic level. Even if you factor in WQ gear, that's maybe 830 average, which an unorganised group is not doing. You show me a group of random average players (which is what Blizzard has to account for in queued content) doing Mythic0 in 830 gear and no organisation, and I will reconsider my view.

People need to stop looking at the trivially fast clears that people in 850+ gear are doing.

Just as a comparison, FFXIV currently has their version of normal level "raids" (content requiring coordination, that will wipe unorganized/ unprepared groups) in a random raid/ dungeon finder. People who want a higher chance at clearing it can create a group in the Group Finder with requirements for a group (minimum ilevel, no first timers, etc...) and queue as a group, or random folks can queue for it individually. Everyone understands the risks involved in blindly queuing for it (failed group), but everyone is able to queue for it in any way they please and are able to see the content. And it is quite successful, as FFXIV is quite successful. That said, to queue for it individually, you are required to meet a minimum ilevel requirement, which is already enforced in WoW for other dungeons so I'm not seeing how this would be any different.

Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out how an automated system would basically take care of this problem by itself.

[Wries]

Agree with OP. Also, you can NOT put up anything that requires even a tiny bit of coordination or talk in the auto queue.

They have tried that already.

End result: content gets nerfed so hard that they have to create a new difficulty level. See mythic dungeons.

So stay the feck away from adding mythic dungeons into that tool stop repeating past mistakes!

[Bryntrollian]

Terran I don't think Dracullus was directly stating anyone here was bitching.

He was commenting about people bitching on the WoW forum could be making groups instead of bitching.

Which is a great point, as it takes more time and effort to create a thread on MMO-Champion than simply forming your own Mythic 0 group.

[Trumpcat]

The amount of people complaining about having to use LFG for forming Mythic groups is just baffling to me. Almost every argument boils down to:

- I can't get accepted to a group and I refuse to create my own
- I don't want to have to interact with people beyond clicking "Join Random Dungeon"

Along with these two arguments these people will come up with any tiny excuse as to why they just can't do it.

They all want Blizzard to magically somehow correct their anxiety behavioral problems / disorders (whether real or conjured up) through some sort of video game programming.

Before I joined my current guild I was able to CREATE groups for regular Mythics as a friggin Ret DPS on average in under 10 minutes. I never once had a toxic group. No one left. No one freaked out over a single wipe. Not one instance of someone going rage crazy.

This game has been dumbed down enough as is, with that said I personally don't have a problem for a LFG queue for Mythics. I just hate to see this game broken down even further for a bunch of people with real or perceived social disorders shaping the development of a mMorpg based on their own bizarre quirks.

Very much agreed. People who get triggered into a meltdown because of the minimal social interaction or initiative should be seeking psychiatrist help, not the help of Blizzard developers. I don't mean that as an insult. Too often you'd have someone explaining how interacting with other people causes them this and that problem, what are you doing in an MMO then?

I've been guild leading for five years and were an officer for seven, at one point I realized I spend an enormous and disproportionate amount of energy on calming and mediating behavioral disorders to maintain the integrity of the guild. Someone would turn chat off because they were greeted or asked a question, another would need AFK breaks to calm down when someone criticized (in a polite and friendly manner) their performance, a third would have me read massive forum messages. I came to realize that the guild is not actually a clinic and mine (or that of the officers) commitment is not to be psychiatrists.

I changed my approach significantly to not tolerate such people or feel somehow obliged to cope with their psychological issues, not surprisingly the entire guild runs a lot smoother and the atmosphere is a lot more pleasant.

[kamuimac]

The amount of people complaining about having to use LFG for forming Mythic groups is just baffling to me. Almost every argument boils down to:

- I can't get accepted to a group and I refuse to create my own
- I don't want to have to interact with people beyond clicking "Join Random Dungeon"

Along with these two arguments these people will come up with any tiny excuse as to why they just can't do it.

They all want Blizzard to magically somehow correct their anxiety behavioral problems / disorders (whether real or conjured up) through some sort of video game programming.

Before I joined my current guild I was able to CREATE groups for regular Mythics as a friggin Ret DPS on average in under 10 minutes. I never once had a toxic group. No one left. No one freaked out over a single wipe. Not one instance of someone going rage crazy.

This game has been dumbed down enough as is, with that said I personally don't have a problem for a LFG queue for Mythics. I just hate to see this game broken down even further for a bunch of people with real or perceived social disorders shaping the development of a mMorpg based on their own bizarre quirks.

its not about helping people its about providing their consumers product they want - if blizzard doesnt want $$ from people who prefer automatic match making systems over hand made one its their loss at the end of day people cna just go and enjoy other games which provide such service

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Just as a comparison, FFXIV currently has their version of normal level "raids" (content requiring coordination, that will wipe unorganized/ unprepared groups) in a random raid/ dungeon finder. People who want a higher chance at clearing it can create a group in the Group Finder with requirements for a group (minimum ilevel, no first timers, etc...) and queue as a group, or random folks can queue for it individually. Everyone understands the risks involved in blindly queuing for it (failed group), but everyone is able to queue for it in any way they please and are able to see the content. And it is quite successful, as FFXIV is quite successful. That said, to queue for it individually, you are required to meet a minimum ilevel requirement, which is already enforced in WoW for other dungeons so I'm not seeing how this would be any different.

Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out how an automated system would basically take care of this problem by itself.

the reson why it works in FF XIV though is because community there is completly totaly different then the one from wow - people actually help each other instead just being toxic to one another.

[TITAN308]

Turning this into an attack on mentally ill people is pretty low.

Some people play MMOs to play with their friends, not jerks like you lol.

Well we better hope their friends are in the auto queue system? Cause apparently making new friends and creating groups manually is to much to ask.

And yea, I can honestly say people who need to hyperventilate into a paper bag because a multiplayer video game is pushing their safe space boundaries aren't going to garner much sympathy from me.

[Deleted]

Well we better hope their friends are in the auto queue system? Cause apparently making new friends and creating groups manually is to much to ask.

And yea, I can honestly say people who need to hyperventilate into a paper bag because a multiplayer video game is pushing their safe space boundaries aren't going to garner much sympathy from me.

It's a real issue in this generation. People expect to get everything they want in the moment they want it.
And when something happens they are not comfortable with, everything and everyone else is to blame.
Becasue they were raised this way.
Because they were told they are the center of the universe, and the most special snowflake.
Because they never learned how to properly deal with rejection and failure.

And no, I don't find much love for those people too.

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I don't want to make friends in this game. The community is terrible. I want to play in a world with my friends.

You're a reason this community is garbage. Like you wonder why people want to play with their friends when people like you are so common.

If you don't want to socialize in a MMORPG, why are you playing it anyways?

[Deleted]

It's a real issue in this generation.

Yeah... I'm 37 and I have absolutely no intention of "making friends" in WoW. My friends have already been made. It has absolutely nothing to do with "this generation".

If you don't want to socialize in a MMORPG, why are you playing it anyways?

Just because you can't understand the reason doesn't mean there isn't one. Here's a question: do you leave your house RL, go onto the street and start yelling "Hey! Here I am! Come socialize with me random people!"

No. You don't do that. Because you don't have to. Your social interactions arise naturally. You're not forced into "socializing" with anyone, and if you are, something's very wrong.

You can exist in an MMO, among a lot of other people, and interact with them in various ways, such as joining a group via the dungeon finder without having to even speak to the people in the group. You don't have to go out of your way to be "social" and "socialize" with people. I don't understand people who have been absolutely and utterly brainwashed by this social media era that they think everything has to be social social social. Pick your nose and share it with everyone because social social social. Talk to every stranger you come across and be friends with everyone and hold hands and stand in a circle and sing Kumbaya and happy happy joy joy social social social.

[Deleted]

Just because you can't understand the reason doesn't mean there isn't one. Here's a question: do you leave your house RL, go onto the street and start yelling "Hey! Here I am! Come socialize with me random people!"

No. You don't do that. Because you don't have to. Your social interactions arise naturally. You're not forced into "socializing" with anyone, and if you are, something's very wrong.

As long as I see no need I do not socialize, I don't. You are completely right.
But then, I do not go to public places and whine around because nobody wants to do stuff with me I need friends for.

And exactly this is (imo, of course) whats happening recently.
(1) Players try to avoid socializing ingame, for a bunch of real or made up reasons.
(2) Those players whine around in public forums because they get declined or kicked out of groups, or simply do not have others to play with
And, in some cases:
(3) Try to convince Blizzard to make some more systems to force others to play with them.

You can exist in an MMO, among a lot of other people, and interact with them in various ways, such as joining a group via the dungeon finder without having to even speak to the people in the group. You don't have to go out of your way to be "social" and "socialize" with people. I don't understand people who have been absolutely and utterly brainwashed by this social media era that they think everything has to be social social social. Pick your nose and share it with everyone because social social social. Talk to every stranger you come across and be friends with everyone and hold hands and stand in a circle and sing Kumbaya and happy happy joy joy social social social.

In an MMO, you honestly spend most of your time somehow existing among each other.
You may have got me wrong at the socializing-thing. Also, social media things have not much to do with actual socializing, as the actual interaction is missing, but thats a very different topic. I don't use that stuff at all (which really works, I never felt I'm missing something because I havent visited facebook for about 5 years)

My point is simple:
If you want to do group stuff in WoW, you need other people with the same intention. You need to either take your friends (or call them ingame contacts), or some complete strangers - which works out pretty well in low difficulty groups.
But with raising difficulty the 'random stranger' thing just stops working. You actually need friends/contacts with which you know how to play, or the chance to fail raises with the level of difficulty. If you are not able (or refuse) to find said players, it's not Blizzards fault, and not their job to fix.

Yeah... I'm 37 and I have absolutely no intention of "making friends" in WoW. My friends have already been made. It has absolutely nothing to do with "this generation".

I never said everybody has to befriend everybody. I'm just talking about people who complain constantly about not finding groups but simply refuse to find friends.