Pyromaniac vs Conflag, CiS vs Kindling

[Deleted]

Curnivore 129.50m 872ilvl 67%bracket 331,709.5 DPS (CiS)
Stevenho 142.97m 867ilvl 98%bracket 372,172.6 DPS (Kind)

Looks like kindling is doing quite fine on Nythendra. Perhaps you need to learn how to play it.

Learn to logic. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem What you do or what I did is worthless. It's a sample of 2. It's a very shitty sample for being too small. Even if you did bring a big enough sample to not have a shitty small sample, you still would have a flaw. You would have to prove first that mages know how to play their talents. It's pretty obvious most still have no idea how Cinderstorm interacts with the spec exactly.

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Does 9 out of 10 top Nyth logs using kindling make more sense perhaps?

Another shitty sample for being too small. Again though, even if you did bring a big enough sample, say 40 or 80 samples there would still be a flaw. You would have to first prove that the majority of mages don't make shitty decisions compared to other decisions they could make if they didn't follow bandwagon psychologies, like the ad hominem bullshit you are trying to force to unsuspected readers.

[Choloz]

Learn to logic. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem What you do or what I did is worthless. It's a sample of 2. It's a very shitty sample for being too small. Even if you did bring a big enough sample to not have a shitty small sample, you still would have a flaw. You would have to prove first that mages know how to play their talents. It's pretty obvious most still have no idea how Cinderstorm interacts with the spec exactly.

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Another shitty sample for being too small. Again though, even if you did bring a big enough sample, say 40 or 80 samples there would still be a flaw. You would have to first prove that the majority of mages don't make shitty decisions compared to other decisions they could make if they didn't follow bandwagon psychologies, like the ad hominem bullshit you are trying to force to unsuspected readers.

don't follow the top 200 mages because they're likely to make better decisions than you? you're talking silly, now. obviously this discussion implies competence. you're trying a little too hard to create an argument here

[stevenho]

Learn to logic. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem What you do or what I did is worthless. It's a sample of 2. It's a very shitty sample for being too small. Even if you did bring a big enough sample to not have a shitty small sample, you still would have a flaw. You would have to prove first that mages know how to play their talents. It's pretty obvious most still have no idea how Cinderstorm interacts with the spec exactly.

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Another shitty sample for being too small. Again though, even if you did bring a big enough sample, say 40 or 80 samples there would still be a flaw. You would have to first prove that the majority of mages don't make shitty decisions compared to other decisions they could make if they didn't follow bandwagon psychologies, like the ad hominem bullshit you are trying to force to unsuspected readers.

Oh look someone got angry. Relax and try to be civil.
I think it's pretty cute how all you can write about is "sample size" while all you yourself ever provide is just your own view of stuff. Well guess what - your own view of stuff is corelated with your own log performance. And your performance is pretty crappy.
So I'm gonna say this - get gud before you start giving people advices on how to play. Right now you are a random guy that would like people to listen to him. That's not how it works.

Infracted.

[Deleted]

I was hard fan of cinderstorm from the beginning, but I am using kindling more and more. High level mythics it seems the way to go as you can burst every other pack more or less, and also I am sure I will have comb available for the boss no matter what. Cinder is still better in certain dungeons. Conflagration always in dungs, however only on certain bosses in raid. Using conflag for xavius, illgynoth, cenarius, dragons. But it can be exchanged easily for all other bosses actually.

[Doffen]

Using 5-6 tomes of tranquil mind in EN now.... Have to get LB on trash as well oh the joy..

[Deleted]

Honestly, both are a point of preference. Personally, I run Conflag since it seems to be just a little bit better overall, and there is no chance of proc munching or screwing with your priorities. When such a passive effect is almost as strong, or even slightly weaker, I would always opt-in on these. The more focus you can get on perfecting your normal rotations, the better.
Cinderstorm is also potentially an upgrade, if you use it correctly (on cd) and always hit 6 cinders. Screw a little thing up, and Kindling (which is passive...) will outperform, if it doesn't already. On top of that Kindling offers burst, high ignite for spreading, mobility (instants) and syncs well with higher crit.

Honestly, for me its not even much of a choice. Both passives sim almost equal, and are far less prone to mistakes making them the superior choice. Even on a fight like Cenarius mythic there is so much movement and requirement for targeted burst, you don't want to have to worry about hitting all your cinders. Which makes the only choice in fire UM or LB

[RoTheHunter]

How do you account for the Wriggling Sinew trinket then?
Do you delay the combustion usage? Then Cinderstorm is better.
If not, don't you lose the dps bonus from it?

[Biomega]

How do you account for the Wriggling Sinew trinket then?
Do you delay the combustion usage? Then Cinderstorm is better.
If not, don't you lose the dps bonus from it?

You never delay Combustion, pretty much. Instead, you can just use the trinket during off-cycle RoP. Usually you still get it up during every other Combustion, or thereabouts. Timing the fight helps you know whether you can delay and not lose a use.

As things stand right now, I personally use Cinderstorm on Ilgynoth (obvious, everyone does), Dragons of Nightmare (if I'm on the one with the clones most of the fight, otherwise Kindling) and Xavius (because Dream resets diminish the value of Kindling somewhat). I'm not claiming it is 100% mathematically optimal, but I believe the differences are so small that a personal estimation of the value depending on our fight strats and setups should be more or less accurate for me.

For M+, I'm usually Kindling 100%. Much of that is because I no longer do low level runs at all, and even +6 runs are somewhat rare for me. Most is 10+, and there Kindling just seems a lot better.

[Deleted]

get gud before you start giving people advices on how to play

Your worthless bullshit may create more followers but it doesn't mean it's more valuable. You basically trashtalk people with ad hominem attacks while you suggest to blindly follow what you saw in the top 10. That's one of the worst ways to play the game.

And by the way your way of reading logs is also utter bullshit. You cherry picked the bracket performance and conveniently ignored the actual rank. You didn't even look at gear or anything.

But you know what? I do not have to respond to you based on your shitty method so there is no need to check your logs. Ad hominem attacks are nothing compared to actual arguments.

[stevenho]

Mate, how can you be taken seriously when your ranks are GREY?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

[Deleted]

I like how you fighting on two forums for something you think is the best, without giving us at least just as small sample of data like other guys. And good job with new "ad hominem" word you learned and used it in every post. You look like a pro

Infracted

[Nihiel]

Randomly dropped into this thread, very off-topic and pls don't ban me - but damn I'm cringing from reading Curnivore's arguments and rebuttals lol.

Infracted.

[CoV3rt]

I like how you fighting on two forums for something you think is the best, without giving us at least just as small sample of data like other guys. And good job with new "ad hominem" word you learned and used it in every post. You look like a pro

It's actually pretty funny, I was looking on altered time after this, and he made 3-4 posts there also using his fancy new word. I guess someone just learned about logical fallacies in Psych 101.

Infracted.

[Deleted]

Mate, how can you be taken seriously when your ranks are GREY?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

I like how you fighting on two forums for something you think is the best, without giving us at least just as small sample of data like other guys. And good job with new "ad hominem" word you learned and used it in every post. You look like a pro

Randomly dropped into this thread, very off-topic and pls don't ban me - but damn I'm cringing from reading Curnivore's arguments and rebuttals lol.

It's actually pretty funny, I was looking on altered time after this, and he made 3-4 posts there also using his fancy new word. I guess someone just learned about logical fallacies in Psych 101.

It appears you all four have the delusion you can bully others into censorship in order to accept your utter bullshit. I'm not afraid of you and I'm ready to be judged by anyone so this thread goes up. Those that can read can think for themselves and make their own mind. The fact of the matter is you are utterly off topic, you offer nothing to the subject and you only attempt to perform character assassination. On the topic, those that can think for themselves can make their own mind. Are the logs that stevenho witch-hunted and nit-picked of any relevance? Samples of 1 are completely pointless anyway. Samples of the top 10 or top 20 are also pointless. Samples that do not conform to your guild style or personal style or strategy are also pointless or largely pointless.

Infracted

[Shangalar]

Control yourselves. This topic has a basis for a reasonable discussion, but that can't happen if everyone's so cool and edgy, and doesn't really think about what they're going to write. Stay on topic and keep the discussion productive.

[GwiGwi]

This is what I use for every mythic boss:

Conflag on all fights

Nythendra: CiS
Elrethe Renferal: CiS
Ursoc: CiS
Dragons: Kindling
Il'gynoth: CiS
Cenarius: Kindling
Xavius: Kindling

CiS was simming higher for me prior to 7.1 and this weeks set of gear, Kindling is now simming higher on single target for the first time (which I find strange considering the Pyroblast nerf). I'll try out Kindling on more bosses next week for our re-clear and see how it goes.

[Deleted]

Kindling is now simming higher on single target for the first time (which I find strange considering the Pyroblast nerf).

It might be related to more crit. Even with a small nerf, combustion phases are still the bulk of the damage. Pyroblast is still important outside combustion anyway.

As a sidenote: An important factor is that Kindling VS Cinderstorm comparisons largely depend on the duration of the fight because Simcraft might end up with more or fewer combustions depended on it so it might be worthwhile to either test with extremely long fight durations for the purpose of diminishing the factor of extra or fewer combustions at the edge of the fight or to test with a very large duration variation (20% might be enough but dunno for certain).

It might be best to test with large variations on the encounter type you aim to be in. In real fights that's common anyway. On progress or early farm some other characters might be dead so a -20%/+20% duration might be very common. I'm not sure if 30%+ variation is viable on mythic progress because it might mean a wipe but then again most people don't really predict well the average or minimum duration of the fight they are simulating to begin with.

[stevenho]

In my experience exactly the oppposite is true - you know very well how long a fight will last when you get semi-close to a kill. A swing of ~2 minutes that allows another CiS-combustion is pretty much out of the question.
But anyway, real life>sims. Analyzing logs is a much better tool to optimize DPS in real fights than sims.