question to Computer Science professionals

[Kreeshak]

I just finished a 4 years university degree in Computer Science and I was over the moon.

I was having a conversation with a "friend" who works in one of the biggest video games companies in the industry.

He said unless I had significant self initiated coding projects to show for, companies would hardly reply to my CVs.
He said I need 1 year worth of coding projects to show for, to be considered for a junior position.

He said, because it is hard to find motivation to do the above, a master's degree would be really helpful because the expenses partially drives you as you don't want to waste your money, and also there is a project included in the course, which companies value highly.

He also said, that some concepts for example like pointers, who I need to *think* to get them right, I need to know them as naturally as multiplications tables. That the environment is pressuring and I don't have the luxury to look my notes for something. Either I know it or I don't.

What is your feedback regarding all of the above?

[Deleted]

shocking i know you must know how to program to get a job that requires you to program

[Deleted]

It's hard to get a job without any experience working on real projects, but there ARE junior positions available for people straight out of university. Try some big companies like IBM, they are willing to invest into training newbies to offer a career to them at their company.

If you don't need money right now, you can try joining some open source project or starting your own and get a year of experience. Build a portfolio, upload it to github or something and everything will get much easier from that point.

[the game]

So there's alot of people going for computer science degrees. Companies have a huge pool of potential employees at their disposal. It's there right to make sure the person they pick meets their criteria.

[Kreeshak]

shocking i know you must know how to program to get a job that requires you to program

I've written numerous small scale, small scope programs.

[nextormento]

Not sure about CS specifics, but requesting a portfolio with your previous work is pretty standard procedure on some fields. And that can only include the stuff you've done outside of a company when you're starting out.
Get coding .

[Kreeshak]

It's hard to get a job without any experience working on real projects, but there ARE junior positions available for people straight out of university. Try some big companies like IBM, they are willing to invest into training newbies to offer a career to them at their company.

If you don't need money right now, you can try joining some open source project or starting your own and get a year of experience. Build a portfolio, upload it to github or something and everything will get much easier from that point.

So are you saying companies would consider you for a junior position, without a significant project to show for?

[Deleted]

So are you saying companies would consider you for a junior position, without a significant project to show for?

what hes saying is you gona waste you re time if you get a master you need to swim with the sharks if you want to learn how to swim

[Vaelanor]

what hes saying is you gona waste you re time if you get a master you need to swim with the sharks if you want to learn how to swim

That's not necessarily true, you can get an internship or a part time coding job while doing your masters. It's actually very common.

As for OP, one thing you can do it upload your school projects to GitHub to show potential employers what you've done while in school. Have you taken any interesting courses during your time? Anything like Machine Learning, AI, Natural Language Processing, Advanced Operating Systems course, anything that will have made you do some kind of project, upload that. Employers can't only go on your word and a piece of paper. They want to see actual results, actual code you've written.

If you don't have these things, I would consider starting very, very soon. For example, right now theres the Hacktoberfest by Digital Ocean (https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/). Find a couple projects to contribute to.

[llandrywyn]

I've written numerous small scale, small scope programs.

My advice would be the same I'd give to anyone in any field.

If all you have is a degree, you are not special.

Universities are churning out hordes of graduates who learned just enough to pass, and so the piece of paper is worth very slightly more than nothing these days. Consider it the entry fee to be in the competition to begin with. What you need are demonstrable skills that are valuable to potential employers. That means you either need to develop skill-sets that are rare and valuable, or you need to be better than everyone you went to school with. And not just a fraction better - enough that when you walk into a room you can convince people, who are more experienced than you, that you're better than everyone else with that same piece of paper.

So how does one achieve this?

Two options:

1) Get a better piece of paper. Postgraduate studies are an excellent way to expand your skill set and make you a more attractive hire.

OR

2) The internet is an awesome place for self teaching. Learn everything you possibly can. Develop a portfolio of projects you've designed and polished that exist for the sole purpose of showing off your skills. Learn how to make a resume stand out in a crowd. Find what other people are doing, and go the extra mile. Work hard, strive for self improvement, and always remember that nothing comes easy.

Hope this helps.

[Kreeshak]

My advice would be the same I'd give to anyone in any field.

If all you have is a degree, you are not special.

Universities are churning out hordes of graduates who learned just enough to pass, and so the piece of paper is worth very slightly more than nothing these days. Consider it the entry fee to be in the competition to begin with. What you need are demonstrable skills that are valuable to potential employers. That means you either need to develop skill-sets that are rare and valuable, or you need to be better than everyone you went to school with. And not just a fraction better - enough that when you walk into a room you can convince people, who are more experienced than you, that you're better than everyone else with that same piece of paper.

So how does one achieve this?

Two options:

1) Get a better piece of paper. Postgraduate studies are an excellent way to expand your skill set and make you a more attractive hire.

OR

2) The internet is an awesome place for self teaching. Learn everything you possibly can. Develop a portfolio of projects you've designed and polished that exist for the sole purpose of showing off your skills. Learn how to make a resume stand out in a crowd. Find what other people are doing, and go the extra mile. Work hard, strive for self improvement, and always remember that nothing comes easy.

Hope this helps.

So my "friends" advise was spot on.

You have been also very helpful. Thank you and thanks all that have contributed.

[Machismo]

It all really depends on what you are trying to do with your degree. If you are trying to jump into the video game industry, then you will almost certainly need to demonstrate you can actually code, which means showing off your own projects. Just having a CS degree is not nearly enough to show that a person is qualified to enter into a specialized field.

A person can get a job in the IT world straight out of college, but it's not likely to be a sexy one. You may want to be more specific as to what type of job you are looking for.

[Kreeshak]

That's not necessarily true, you can get an internship or a part time coding job while doing your masters. It's actually very common.

As for OP, one thing you can do it upload your school projects to GitHub to show potential employers what you've done while in school. Have you taken any interesting courses during your time? Anything like Machine Learning, AI, Natural Language Processing, Advanced Operating Systems course, anything that will have made you do some kind of project, upload that. Employers can't only go on your word and a piece of paper. They want to see actual results, actual code you've written.

If you don't have these things, I would consider starting very, very soon. For example, right now theres the Hacktoberfest by Digital Ocean (https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/). Find a couple projects to contribute to.

Regarding the starting very, very soon, is there a particular reason for that? Can I start a little later or at a slow pace? Is it discriminating in any way to have a lag between your graduation date and your application?

[Mihalik]

Most small to medium size companies in nearly any technical field aren't able to give anyone a Junior position straight out of college (unless their college record stands out somehow, I for one participated in 2 major research projects in my final 2 years in college and I was credit as co-author for one, so I ended up being scouted).

The issue is that even Juniors with prior experience and who know their stuff go through an acclimatization and adaptation phase, during which their productivity is barely above that of a common household cat. This can be anything from 2 to 6 months, depending on the job and the employee. Furthermore during this period they require constant supervision, help and in-house training, even the best of candidates.

I remember the first project I worked on after college (I'm a geologist, and worked on a major gas infrastructure project), while I had a firm grasp of the theory, when theory met reality I was utterly useless, must have driven the Foreman and the technical staff up the walls until I learned hands on how theory applies.

So I would say that doing a Masters and combining that with a part time internship or a personal development project is a very sound advice.

Welcome to the 21st Century and our Hyper-specialized labor market.

[Kreeshak]

It all really depends on what you are trying to do with your degree. If you are trying to jump into the video game industry, then you will almost certainly need to demonstrate you can actually code, which means showing off your own projects. Just having a CS degree is not nearly enough to show that a person is qualified to enter into a specialized field.

A person can get a job in the IT world straight out of college, but it's not likely to be a sexy one. You may want to be more specific as to what type of job you are looking for.

Video games sounds exciting. But I think in reality anything that pays the bills is attracting.

Also I guess, I need experience to gain confidence. Once I have a couple of years of experience, then there is going to be no limit to my confidence.

[Mihalik]

Regarding the starting very, very soon, is there a particular reason for that? Can I start a little later or at a slow pace? Is it discriminating in any way to have a lag between your graduation date and your application?

Yes and no. People who take a year or two hiatus to do something else (something worthy putting in your CV, like teaching languages in Asia or doing logistical field charity work in Africa) before they continue their career path, won't necessarily suffer much from it (helping your mom with the groceries while touring metal festivals, doesn't count unfortunately).

But someone who spends 2-5 years away from a field will have a very hard time returning to it. Having a 32 year old in a Junior position with less than 2 years experience is a bit awkward, so companies will simply try to avoid that. I personally expect anyone I hire by the age of 30 to have either a minimum of 7 years of combined work experience or 1 Masters+ 5 years work experience to show for it.

[twiddler]

I just finished a 4 years university degree in Computer Science and I was over the moon.

I was having a conversation with a "friend" who works in one of the biggest video games companies in the industry.

He said unless I had significant self initiated coding projects to show for, companies would hardly reply to my CVs.
He said I need 1 year worth of coding projects to show for, to be considered for a junior position.

He said, because it is hard to find motivation to do the above, a master's degree would be really helpful because the expenses partially drives you as you don't want to waste your money, and also there is a project included in the course, which companies value highly.

He also said, that some concepts for example like pointers, who I need to *think* to get them right, I need to know them as naturally as multiplications tables. That the environment is pressuring and I don't have the luxury to look my notes for something. Either I know it or I don't.

What is your feedback regarding all of the above?

I'm going to assume you don't have internship experience, either? Well, it depends on your goals and location. A master's/PHD only matters in a few select fields (ML/DS, HPC, etc.) where they are generally looking for a master's minimum. If your goal is the video game industry, they definitely do favor a noticeable portfolio (and pay worse) than any of the other fields. Is the degree alone enough? Yes and no. If you're a 3.5+ GPA student from a top school, you shouldn't have a problem landing an interview at one of the acronym factories, but if your GPA is mediocre and you have nothing to show for the obviously less devotion to your studies (or if you're from a relatively unknown regional school applying out of state), do expect your portfolio/experience or lack thereof to play a very large factor. If you're in a city like Dallas, you probably don't even need a degree (something as simple as a basic Excel clone common at junior level is enough).

My advice? Just apply to everything. and maybe even intern positions (though landing internships in the three areas I said tend to be more difficult to land than that first job).

[Kujako]

Yes, a portfolio is more important than a degree.

[Independent voter]

Yes, a portfolio is more important than a degree.

Yeah, there are a lot of guys with no degrees working as programmers around here.

[Darsithis]

I just finished a 4 years university degree in Computer Science and I was over the moon.

I was having a conversation with a "friend" who works in one of the biggest video games companies in the industry.

He said unless I had significant self initiated coding projects to show for, companies would hardly reply to my CVs.
He said I need 1 year worth of coding projects to show for, to be considered for a junior position.

If all you have is a degree it means little in the world of software, web, or mobile development. What they teach is rarely what you actually end up doing. Without some experience - intern, on your own, other small jobs, you're going to be hard-pressed to get going.

I never went to school for programming, computer science, IT, any of it. I worked crappy odd jobs at 16 for Chicago Public Schools, got an $8-an-hour job converting a DOS application to Microsoft Access databases, and from there grew my career until I reached where I am today as a lead software engineer in charge of teams for our software.

He said, because it is hard to find motivation to do the above, a master's degree would be really helpful because the expenses partially drives you as you don't want to waste your money, and also there is a project included in the course, which companies value highly.

He also said, that some concepts for example like pointers, who I need to *think* to get them right, I need to know them as naturally as multiplications tables. That the environment is pressuring and I don't have the luxury to look my notes for something. Either I know it or I don't.

What is your feedback regarding all of the above?

I don't think a Masters degree will change much. They're going to want to see examples of your style of work and your coding practices, and they can tell the difference between the rote education style and a personal style. Every job I've applied to in the last decade has required me to submit entire programs or write new ones on-the-fly to solve problems.

Also, I'm surprised by his motivation speech. I love programming and software development. I have probably put as much work on my own time into my own projects (one of which got me my position where I am now 8 years ago) as I have for actual paid projects. It's a thrill to put something together and watch it come to life under your hands, whether it is a 3D model, animation, web site, mobile app, or desktop program. He might not be inspired to do work on his own time but that's him.