Guild loyalty, why bother?

[l33t]

Yeah, like a toy train that literally does nothing.

I'm not going to throw a fit over Johndoe dressing as Gamon. It's a toy made for cosmetic purposes.

Yeah, know WHY it doesn't make that fucking sound? Because it was the fucking king of annoying and hundreds of thousands of people asked blizzard to shut the damned thing down. They did. Fucking flute is next. IMO, toys that are used on other people without their consent are just wrong and should not exist. I won't even start the topic of fucking willow wisp wand from halloween, when dumbass stealthy uses that shit on you during 5-4-3-2-1 pull countdown. Sure I bet he gets a lot of fun out of it, that doesn't make such kinds of behavious normal or justified.

There is a place to use toys. Raid is not that place. Trust me, when you're RL and you try to tell tactics to people, who, instead of listening to you, start using loud, flashy toys like a bunch of 3 y.o. kids, and then you wipe because that exact people who used toys failed tactics, you will enrage and things will happen. Moreso, if a person who uses toys continues to use them even after you asked him to stop. Remember, raid is not yours event only, 9-29 people also waste their own personal time for it to happen, so please learn to respect your co-raiders' time. Its not that hard.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

Guilds are like prostitutes. Use them as such.

[Deleted]

Guilds are like prostitutes. Use them as such.

Are you in an actual guild and how many have you been in? :P
Even prostitutes come with pimps, who tend to step in when you pass a certain treshold.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Especially when they could have just gotten a Neural Silencer if they didn't want to be swapped.

So you think it is okay to, in the middle of a raid, ask the raid to stop so you can go and buy an item to stop someone from being able to harass you with an item? This is better than asking the person to stop using the item?

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

Are you in an actual guild and how many have you been in? :P
Even prostitutes come with pimps, who tend to step in when you pass a certain treshold.

Retired mythic raider, at one point we were ranked 3rd on stormrage (during MoP, i know not much to brag about but its there.) I was also an officer during that time.

I digress, guilds are like prostitutes. Use them as such.

Guilds will be obsolete before they shut this game off, just you wait.

Another thing is, maybe some of you guys should go make real life friends with real life relationship skills. I understand it can be easy to make friends on the internet, but if there isn't any real substance to the relationship then you're just part of another persons entertainment, not their friend.

[Thoughtcrime]

I'm going out on a limb but I reckon someone called Titmeister isn't as funny as they think they are and your guild mates just had enough.

[Thelxi]

Loyalty is a good thing, but at the end of the day this is a video game and you got to limit your expectations of people. There is a big gap between real life and virtual life social ties.

Having said that it look like they kicked you because you were pushing things. "Free pass" and that kinda shit can start out playful but becomes annoying, especially in a raiding environment where people need to play along or else there would be chaos. I don't think your kick had much to do with loyalty.

[Jewsco]

Why buy protection for other person's stupidity and not just eliminate the said person?

To OP:
It seems that was fun to you was simply annoying to everyone else. Even if they "allowed" you to do it you should have the common sense to not try and be an attention seeker during raids where people are more or less agitated and focused.

As for the 100% attendance TWO DAYS A WEEK well sorry to say this but you were an absolute casual and so they just flushed you out when your behavior became too irritating.

Exactly one persons fun does not out weigh the rest of the group. All you need to know is the fact the OP finds "fun" in annoying others. Add in the fact the op freely admits that there were some restrictions on this toy use proves it was annoying others. Then the op also admits he threw a fit. Seems like a no brainer kick to me

[Scarletlion]

Despite of being an old member of the guild, your attitude didn't look great. I mean swapblaster is the most annoying thing in WoW. One officer might be ok with using that but it doesn't change the fact, it's still annoying. What part of that thing is funny btw? You annoy other people, maybe they are trying to rank in dps meter on a farm boss and you do that and fuck it up. Is that funny to you? Yet, it's not a reason to kick a veteran like that, nobody should be kicked when they are offline. BUT if you were benched because of that, you were supposed to understand it and accept it and let it go for a while. On the other hand there ''must'' be some other reason to kick you, maybe the way you talk or act was the reason, i don't know.

As i said, i think its not about one officer giving you permission to do that, you do your job as a raider during boss fights, you don't troll people as you want.

[bubbadubba]

I just got kicked from my guild. I was one of the first members ever to join. Stuck by them for 3 years or so. Raided with them, near 100% attendancy 2 days a week, performing in the 80% bracket, cleared my schedule to be able to. It was fun, we had good laughs, I was loyal, and expected that to be mutual.

Tonight we raided. I performed. And one of my things is the swapblaster. Makes the whole raid laugh. I dont use it excessively. 2-3 times, usually once at ursoc and once at elreth, keeps the raid on their toes. I even had a free pass on normal raids to use it, as long as i didnt use it during progression raids. It didnt slow the raid down as it was always aimed at a dps (usually someone being too loudmouthed) and always during a waiting period (waiting for RC Lootcouncil to finish distributing)

Last night they decided to bench me for the next progression raid because i used a swapblaster during a normal gearing raid (which i was given permission to do). So i said in guildchat that it was BS to bench me for something i was told i could do, and that i wasnt gonna raid ever again if thats the case. And i got guildkicked while being offline.

After 3 years of loyal attendancy, the time i spend with the guild and what i thought were friends i made, i get kicked over the use of a swapblaster.

Its funny though. What does this say about "online friends"? About guilds? Loyalty? I always thought they were real. Untill today. Now i understand my loyalty to people half way cross the ocean is worth fuckall, nomatter how nice and dandy you play together while it lasts. It feels weird, like i wasted the last 3 years of my life on them. Why bother with another guild?

Thoughts?

Edit:
One of the officers responded to this thread on post 208. He is the officer that told me i could use it. And he wasnt there that particular raid and that evening i got kicked. Claiming im a racist (because i open Discord with "hello my niggahs") and that i harrassed people in guild. When in reality, i barely speak during raids and the only one truely harrassing people "go learn your fucking class blabla" was made officer.

Needless to say, take that as you will.

hearing your side of the story sound like they were pretty crappy and you should just move on. Now I did not hear there side of the story really so I also can't say much about the situation as I am only bias to the one side.

I would assume it had more then the swapblaster on why you got kicked. Though the swapblaster could be annoying when used and should be avoided unless used on friends. Someone in my guild that can't raid anymore due to schedule would use this all the time and he ended up slowing raid down because he would miss place dps when they were trying to position themselves. (one time pulling the boss). I would not have kicked you for that but I would have asked you to stop, sitting you would not be the route I would take but I am not those officers. What I think you did wrong here is put that it was BS for benching you in Guildchat and not /w or /o, that is where I would have kicked you, even if I didn't want to sit you in the first place.

Now it probably is more then this, you said you barely speak during raids and that you were not the harassing people. I don't know you again but it could be possible that you are very annoying in the guild or very rude. The section where I am maybe thinking that could be true is the racist comment you made. I had someone in my guild that did the exact same thing, I almost quit the guild or people I have played 5 years with because it started with that and then eventually would say another comment similar to that but a bit worse. It added up and eventually when I confronted him about it he got super defensive and said he only said the word when he said hello, which wasn't true because him saying that only bothered me well the slave comments were the turning point.

Why I said the above section was because this guy truly thought he never said any racist comments. You could be in this situation where maybe you didn't know you were annoying or harassing people when you actually were.

So learn from the past and move to the future, hopefully you find a guild that suits you better then they did.

[Targom]

Does it matter if "most" of the raid found your use of swapblaster amusing? If 2 or 3 people told officers they didn't want to raid with you are you worth more than them? I think aside from that there is an important thing to learn from this. There is a time and a place for making an example of a situation. You becoming a bigger distraction from the raid that you were removed from for being a distraction is not helping your case. You say the fill in raid leader was going to bench you for progression but I would have showed up for the progression raid and seen how things played out at start time. I'm not saying you should rage or throw a fit at this point either but that is less likely at this point since you've had time to cool down. Just ask in guildchat to confirm that you're being sat on progression for your behavior on an optional/alt gearing(?) raid that you seem to believe was approved/appropriate behavior.

On a personal level I don't enjoy stuff like that especially if it gets me killed and I had an augment/food buff. You also have to consider the other side and how that person might take it. You swapblaster them and they fall and die(or just don't get well fed) and according to you everyone is laughing. You don't know what that person has going on in real life or how they will take a group of people laughing at them.

[Hyve]

Swapblaster is just annoying as fuck. I don't think I'd kick you, but I'd probably tell you to pack that shit in. 2 - 3 times a night, 2 times a week, for X years? Man, that's just fucking annoying.

[Deleted]

Having read your Post and what the Officer posted after you were probably being a massive cunt.

But you can learn from this experience. It will help you IRL as well.

[The One Percent]

You sound relentlessly fucking annoying.

[dyzz]

I just got kicked from my guild. I was one of the first members ever to join. Stuck by them for 3 years or so. Raided with them, near 100% attendancy 2 days a week, performing in the 80% bracket, cleared my schedule to be able to. It was fun, we had good laughs, I was loyal, and expected that to be mutual.

Tonight we raided. I performed. And one of my things is the swapblaster. Makes the whole raid laugh. I dont use it excessively. 2-3 times, usually once at ursoc and once at elreth, keeps the raid on their toes. I even had a free pass on normal raids to use it, as long as i didnt use it during progression raids. It didnt slow the raid down as it was always aimed at a dps (usually someone being too loudmouthed) and always during a waiting period (waiting for RC Lootcouncil to finish distributing)

Last night they decided to bench me for the next progression raid because i used a swapblaster during a normal gearing raid (which i was given permission to do). So i said in guildchat that it was BS to bench me for something i was told i could do, and that i wasnt gonna raid ever again if thats the case. And i got guildkicked while being offline.

After 3 years of loyal attendancy, the time i spend with the guild and what i thought were friends i made, i get kicked over the use of a swapblaster.

Its funny though. What does this say about "online friends"? About guilds? Loyalty? I always thought they were real. Untill today. Now i understand my loyalty to people half way cross the ocean is worth fuckall, nomatter how nice and dandy you play together while it lasts. It feels weird, like i wasted the last 3 years of my life on them. Why bother with another guild?

Thoughts?

Edit:
One of the officers responded to this thread on post 208. He is the officer that told me i could use it. And he wasnt there that particular raid and that evening i got kicked. Claiming im a racist (because i open Discord with "hello my niggahs") and that i harrassed people in guild. When in reality, i barely speak during raids and the only one truely harrassing people "go learn your fucking class blabla" was made officer.

Needless to say, take that as you will.

Two sides to every story, but coming here to blast the guild and even stating that you were basically annoying people, makes me lean in thier direction. People were probably complaining. You were probably asked to stop. You didnt. You acted like more of an asshole in Guild Chat than you let on. You were kicked.

In this game, and raiding in top 20 guilds for Vanilla and 2 xpacs, there were always people who thought they were untouchable because of "loyalty". Turned out, they were always the biggest dicks.

[Deleted]

at op even your name sounds douchy, probably well deserved.

[Justpassing]

What I'm hearing is:

"Every raid night i swap blaster my members off edges and cause delays in pulling bosses, and tonight my guild decided they were sick of it"

Pretty much this.

[Leonora]

You should also read the post where the officer answers and tells their side of the story. (post nr#208)

Thanks, I read both posts. If both posters are genuine, the stories clash and even more reason to bring both parties together to talk.
Right now I see two options -
1) The OP cant recall clear warnings to stop whatever he does that annoys people. Or
2) The leadership did not warn as clearly as claimed in message 208.

Strangely enough, in my experience (some 10+ years now as guildleader) I have found the second more often the case. People dont like to confront, and when they say 'we warned', it can happen that:
- The message was typed, and not read/not properly read, or
- The message did not contain the clear markers 'if you keep doing this, we kick you' (but more something like 'çan you please stop?')
- The leadership along with a small core of people build up annoyance over a longer time without making this buildup clear to the OP.
I had to be the hammer many times because other officers of the guild rather did not confront members.

Or, the OP or the leadership are simply lying/spinning, of course. Confronting them together sorts it out .

Regarding how valuable or *un*valuable guilds and the relations in it are :

Relations in real life require that you invest time and yourself. So when you raid/play/chat together for years with others in the guild, why would that not be a relation? You sure invested the time. Sure, you lack really seeing each other (though, guild meetings/voipchat/videochats?) but the time investment is there. And with strong leadership, it should be an environment where people treat each other fairly and you can feel safe. You cant always say that in real life.

I feel sorry for people that judge guilds as 'just' places to get what they want, or guilds that treat people as if timeinvestment and relations do not exist. A good guild can be much more. Maybe guild relations lack the real depth a reallife relationship can get... but guilds also allow taking (long) breaks and other freedoms that wont work well in real life relationships.

[Deleted]

I join RP guilds so this never happens

[Deleted]

Massively amused you expect to be taken seriously with the name 'Titmeister'.

To the OP, I am afraid you seem like one of those blameless brats who just has to be right about everything, and has a justifiable response to any given action. I am quite sure if you'd discussed your issue sensibly with your superiors, and accepted blame where due you could have sorted it out, instead you come here and look for sympathy. Pretty childish. People like you are really difficult to deal with as you have major problems seeing fault in your own actions.