Why do casuals need gear?

[chronia]

This is moronic, mythic0 is the old heroic, and it was always in LFD, and things WERE FINE.

This is a totally insane decision, to keep some dungeons out of LFD. This is bullying. What's wrong with the devs, are they desperate to push the "popularity" of the tool because it's underused? Fuckers.

Tbh, Mythic0 being the old heroic, where does this exactly come from? I mean looking at the difficulty i think we can easily state that while legion mythics are not hard, they are definately harder then WoD heroic (which were more on par with Legion heroics in difficulty), they are harder then MoP heroics were, Cata heroics were harder (but only pre nerf), and they are deffo harder than Wrath Heroics, and on par, or maybe even harder then WoD Mythics (which were pretty easy also), which were never on the LFD tool at all.

If i would have to rank them i would say

Legion M+ = WoD CM diff (M+ 2-3 is prolly easier then WoD CM Silver, M+10 or higher is prolly harder then WoD CM Gold, atleast thats my feeling)
Legion Mythic = Wod Mythic (or a tad harder, hard to judge since WoD Mythics came later in the progression cycle)
Legion Herioc = WoD Heroic / MoP heroic (altough MoP ones were prolly easier)
Legion Normal (all in party 110) = WoD normal lvl 100 dungeon
Legion Normal (not all 110) = WoD levelening dungeon

I don't really see the bullying either, i just see 2 separate progression path's for 5 man groups, which both give the gear needed to get into organised raiding if you would want that.

One trough LFD going from normal > Heroic > LFR (to see the full game story) After this you can stop up to Normal raiding if you would like.
The other being Mythic > Mythic + (content for organised groups of players) which can be used as a step up to Normal (can be skipped when taking this route quite easy) or Heroic raiding

[Deleted]

Nope, they are desperate to put solo players into guilds/groups, so they befriend or at least get on well with more people, because they know it is the main factor for people to stay subbed and to keep playing the game.

And yes i feel your pain, i am in the same boat, i had to find groups for doing the 4 mythics for the attunement, and some people were asking 875 ilevel for doing Mythic zero dungeons.

Well, I have a guild of some RL friends who also play the game. We don't need that kind of harassment.

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Tbh, Mythic0 being the old heroic, where does this exactly come from? I mean looking at the difficulty i think we can easily state that while legion mythics are not hard, they are definately harder then WoD heroic (which were more on par with Legion heroics in difficulty), they are harder then MoP heroics were, Cata heroics were harder (but only pre nerf), and they are deffo harder than Wrath Heroics, and on par, or maybe even harder then WoD Mythics (which were pretty easy also), which were never on the LFD tool at all.

If i would have to rank them i would say

Legion M+ = WoD CM diff (M+ 2-3 is prolly easier then WoD CM Silver, M+10 or higher is prolly harder then WoD CM Gold, atleast thats my feeling)
Legion Mythic = Wod Mythic (or a tad harder, hard to judge since WoD Mythics came later in the progression cycle)
Legion Herioc = WoD Heroic / MoP heroic (altough MoP ones were prolly easier)
Legion Normal (all in party 110) = WoD normal lvl 100 dungeon
Legion Normal (not all 110) = WoD levelening dungeon

Well, I have been running Cata Heroics on LFD before nerf, and I don't find mythic0 harder. The only hard thing is actually getting a group without an automatic matchmaking system, so I don't even start most of the time. On occasions, I am lucky with a quick invite or have more time on my hands so I can even assemble a group, then I run a mythic dungeon. I would run these much more often if they were in LFD.

Edit: A big problem is actually the random upgrade system. Since you can get better gear out of world quests, the minimum item level requirements in random groups in the group finder automatically moves higher. Tough luck for people with no luck. So I either stick to WQ and pray to RNGjesus, and I hate that, or bang my head into the wall of the inflated item levels which don't tell you anymore how skillful a person is, at all, except when you get to an average which is only reasonably achieved in raids or high mythic+ runs.

[chronia]

Well, I have a guild of some RL friends who also play the game. We don't need that kind of harassment.

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Well, I have been running Cata Heroics on LFD before nerf, and I don't find mythic0 harder. The only hard thing is actually getting a group without an automatic matchmaking system, so I don't even start most of the time. On occasions, I am lucky with a quick invite or have more time on my hands so I can even assemble a group, then I run a mythic dungeon.

Thats why i say that Cata Heroic before nerf were harder then Mythic0, however Cata Heroics (Pre Nerf) were considered a huge faillure for the LFD system (i loved them, as they brought the TBC heroic feeling back, instead of the snoozefest Wrath heroics), but the number of ppl flooding the forums with comments that they were to hard, that groups were falling apart after a few trash pulls e.t.c. made sure that the nerf bat hit those Heroics into oblivion quite fast so that the majority of the players could actually run them trough LFD succesfully. Its sad, but harder then average content in this game just does not work with the LFD system and Blizz learned from that and now makes sure that content targeted at organised groups is not available trough LFD and that content that is on LFD is actually easy enough for most of the player base.

I can deffo see that this causes problems for a player like you though, who is in a small guild with conflicting schedules.

[Otimus]

Tbh, Mythic0 being the old heroic, where does this exactly come from? I mean looking at the difficulty i think we can easily state that while legion mythics are not hard, they are definately harder then WoD heroic (which were more on par with Legion heroics in difficulty), they are harder then MoP heroics were, Cata heroics were harder (but only pre nerf), and they are deffo harder than Wrath Heroics, and on par, or maybe even harder then WoD Mythics (which were pretty easy also), which were never on the LFD tool at all.

If i would have to rank them i would say

Legion M+ = WoD CM diff (M+ 2-3 is prolly easier then WoD CM Silver, M+10 or higher is prolly harder then WoD CM Gold, atleast thats my feeling)
Legion Mythic = Wod Mythic (or a tad harder, hard to judge since WoD Mythics came later in the progression cycle)
Legion Herioc = WoD Heroic / MoP heroic (altough MoP ones were prolly easier)
Legion Normal (all in party 110) = WoD normal lvl 100 dungeon
Legion Normal (not all 110) = WoD levelening dungeon

I don't really see the bullying either, i just see 2 separate progression path's for 5 man groups, which both give the gear needed to get into organised raiding if you would want that.

One trough LFD going from normal > Heroic > LFR (to see the full game story) After this you can stop up to Normal raiding if you would like.
The other being Mythic > Mythic + (content for organised groups of players) which can be used as a step up to Normal (can be skipped when taking this route quite easy) or Heroic raiding

To each their own, but I personally found WoD's heroics at launch "harder" than the Legion base mythics. If not harder, then more or less the same difficulty. With the mythics being slightly harder, but not a big leap harder. TBH, I found WOTLK's 3 ICC patch heroic dungeons harder, as well the troll patch Cata dungeons harder.

Those all, mostly, seem to be in the same throwing distance of difficulty. I mean, I think there's an argument to be made that they are harder than some things for some people, but not a world's amount of difficulty over the current heroics, that's for damned sure, certainly not enough to warrant their exclusivity or weekly lockout. All it's going to serve to really do is make it so that no one really wants to run base mythics anymore this time next year.

If they're really worried about some unwashed masses ruining the experience of what will be outdated content, then return the proving grounds requirement, and have it only apply to mythic dungeons.

Why in the world would anyone have a problem with that? The only reasoning I can see is "I hate any sort of LF system, and therefor, I'd hate that, and I'd hate that people get to easily do something that is outdated because."

[chronia]

To each their own, but I personally found WoD's heroics at launch "harder" than the Legion base mythics. If not harder, then more or less the same difficulty. With the mythics being slightly harder, but not a big leap harder. TBH, I found WOTLK's 3 ICC patch heroic dungeons harder, as well the troll patch Cata dungeons harder.

Those all, mostly, seem to be in the same throwing distance of difficulty. I mean, I think there's an argument to be made that they are harder than some things for some people, but not a world's amount of difficulty over the current heroics, that's for damned sure, certainly not enough to warrant their exclusivity or weekly lockout. All it's going to serve to really do is make it so that no one really wants to run base mythics anymore this time next year.

If they're really worried about some unwashed masses ruining the experience of what will be outdated content, then return the proving grounds requirement, and have it only apply to mythic dungeons.

Why in the world would anyone have a problem with that? The only reasoning I can see is "I hate any sort of LF system, and therefor, I'd hate that, and I'd hate that people get to easily do something that is outdated because."

Probably to each their own indeed, the way i remember WoD Heroics is that right after dinging me and some friends ran in our SOO / leveling gear to the WoD heroics needed for the first Khadgar ring quest as we didnt have the ilvl to queue ofc. And we cleared them without too much effort (they were actually reasonable challenging at that gear level) but when we reached the (i think 610 ilvl) to queue they were just quite easy. With legion heroics we had the same experience, but to do the legion Mythics atleast we needed to get atleast 810-815 or something around that to be able to clear them without it being quite tight on the healer etc.

[Deleted]

I recently joined a discord community with very laid back folks and higher than usual social skills, but sometimes lacking in-game skills. For those gear is a way to push their character, thus being able to do content like mythic dungeons, em normal and perhaps kara (we will see tonight). It's not they casuals need the bleeding edge dps, but if you are lying on the bed with your laptop, playing the game very casually and chatting during a dungeon, it makes a difference being at ilvl 820 or 850.

[Deleted]

Still not locked winky face

The mods are slacking! Or they agree with the post...

[orca2425]

I would let me to get in a mythic group but..here is the problem, I'm at 833ilvl and an element all shammy which I love playing..if only I could get into a group that would be awesome but..I think it's the community not really the game.cause the game requires less than the community does so ..that where the brick wall is..I'm not going to reroll cause everyone thinks that class and spec suck..I love my shammy non the less ..but cannot get invited anywsy cause the community is toxic and thinks that class and spec are not worth playing with..again brick wall.

[kary]

I would let me to get in a mythic group but..here is the problem, I'm at 833ilvl and an element all shammy which I love playing..if only I could get into a group that would be awesome but..I think it's the community not really the game.cause the game requires less than the community does so ..that where the brick wall is..I'm not going to reroll cause everyone thinks that class and spec suck..I love my shammy non the less ..but cannot get invited anywsy cause the community is toxic and thinks that class and spec are not worth playing with..again brick wall.

There are a million trashcan dps.
There are less non trashcan dps.
90% of group leaders take higher ilvl dps

You can circumvent this by, finding/rolling a tank or healer.
Higher ilvl won't save you here either, since everyone just spams ilvl anyway. You either need to make a group, or be a desirable role. Dps aren't really desirable.

[Deleted]

It is all relative.

[Bumbac]

okay, fair enough. for the legs you have to do all the dungeons in normal. That's literally it. The legs are the 2nd piece you get after dinging 110. So solo for 7/8 pieces and normal groupfinder dungeons for the last item.

Leggings - Defeat the final boss of 8 Legion Dungeons
Wrist - Recruit 6 Champions for your Class Hall - gated behind dungeons
Chest - Complete your Class Order Campaign - gated behind dungeons

[kary]

Leggings - Defeat the final boss of 8 Legion Dungeons
Wrist - Recruit 6 Champions for your Class Hall - gated behind dungeons
Chest - Complete your Class Order Campaign - gated behind dungeons

All queueable content.
Are you saying that you're so bratty and entitled you don't even want to do a normal 5 man for gear? lmao

And I'm pretty sure you don't need to do dungeons to get the bracers.

[Aeriedk]

The point behind the game is really upgrading your characters gear so you can kill more difficult bosses or creatures in the wild.

So that's why even casuals want gear.

[Dastreus]

So they can play the game.

/plsEndThread

[hebere]

Yes, it really sound stupid. And if that makes me arrogant individual, so be it. And thanks!

If a game is designed to have a certain progression ladder and a player refuses or is unable to take the next step on that ladder, his/her game is over. If we're talking of WoW (as we clearly are), why would anyone even play the game if he/she wasn't into raiding and hated PvP? In current design a player who doesn't want to progress through raiding or PvP will not need gear for anything - it could even be cosmetic only, something to show for in a major city.

Now, if there was some other kind of content for people i described above it would have a progression ladder of its own and allow this player to get gear that was needed to beat that content. Getting gear for a sake of getting gear is almost the most stupid thing i've ever heard. I guess nothing shouldn't surprise me anymore when it comes into gaming, and especially (wanna-be)-MMOs.

Just out of curiosity, what would you suggest these kind of players to do in game to improve their gear if they didn't want to raid and hated PvP? Do 500 WQs for a piece of gear? Kill a 5-man dungeon boss 100 times? Gather 100 stacks of a herb? I thought they were casuals, and casuals always hate grinding.

Sometimes it's just o-k to admit not all people should play all kind of games. I hate almost every kind of PvP with passion, so i don't play games that involves fighting other players, it's that simple. I don't go on CoD forums and start whining for a proper content for people who don't want to PvP. The same should be true for MMOs as well.

Days late I know, but your obtuse response demanded attention. Again, you are obsessed with this notion of need. It's not about need, it's about entertainment. Getting gear is fun. That's all you need to know.

I have news for you. If you think raiding and pvp are the only carrots in WoW, you are blind. I was a hardcore raider for years, even have a gladiator mount to show for my hard work; but that was a long time ago and these days (these past YEARS to be more precise) have been spent collecting pets, toys, mounts, transmog, working on achievements and just experiencing the game in general. I DO occasionally get into a raid, but I'm not a raider by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm also not sure where you get 'casuals hate grinding' from. Some PLAYERS hate grinding, both hardcore and casual; it's not an exclusive casual characteristic. What's more, I'm not even sure you know what a casual is...

And here's the kicker. Having better gear most certainly helps me solo older content. It also helps me blast LFR which is decidedly, a casual haven. Regardless of those obvious examples of why I 'need' gear, it's still as simple as getting gear is fun.

Re-read what you wrote and ask yourself, "Am I only looking at this game from my perspective and not allowing for others?".

Spoiler: yes you are.

[Snuffleupagus]

I was a hardcore raider for years...

Amazing how much people lie to try and prove their point.

[Krastyn]

Amazing how much people lie to try and prove their point.

That could be true. Or it could be that people change. This game has been around for coming up on 12 years. I was also a hardcore raider in vanilla. My main from that time still sits at 60 in a mix of MC and BWL gear where I stopped. I'm done with the days of 3-5 nights a week of raiding at a set time. I have other commitments in life.

I still play a lot, but like hebere wrote, it's more doing other things. Achiedvements, pets, collectibles, rep grinds. And I mean the grinds like getting to revered with Bloodsail, then repping back up with the goblins while staying revered with the bloodsail back when it was relevant.

There are a lot of casuals who spend as much, or more time playing the game than hardcore players. They simply spend it doing other things, and not on a schedule.

[kary]

That could be true. Or it could be that people change. This game has been around for coming up on 12 years. I was also a hardcore raider in vanilla. My main from that time still sits at 60 in a mix of MC and BWL gear where I stopped. I'm done with the days of 3-5 nights a week of raiding at a set time. I have other commitments in life.

I still play a lot, but like hebere wrote, it's more doing other things. Achiedvements, pets, collectibles, rep grinds. And I mean the grinds like getting to revered with Bloodsail, then repping back up with the goblins while staying revered with the bloodsail back when it was relevant.

There are a lot of casuals who spend as much, or more time playing the game than hardcore players. They simply spend it doing other things, and not on a schedule.

>hardcore
>BWL/MC gear
>hardcore


Ya sure ok bro

[Krastyn]

>hardcore
>BWL/MC gear
>hardcore


Ya sure ok bro

I'm sorry you don't think MC or BWL were a thing.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...eldon/advanced

[Seefer]

I think you already know that what you said is bullshit, but I guess I'll bite anyways.

WoW is a RPG at its core, so you got to have some sort of character progression.
So saying you don't need gear is simply wrong.
You need to be able to raise your power, progress you character.

I still can't wrap my head around why people care about other peoples gear or are jealous because of it.
Everyone playing should be alowed to have fun, to fucking PLAY.
I don't give two shits if someone who can't play more than 2 hours a day or whatever has more a higher ilvl through whatever means, gear doesn't mean that much after all.

It stopped being an RPG a long time ago mate sorry.

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Days late I know, but your obtuse response demanded attention. Again, you are obsessed with this notion of need. It's not about need, it's about entertainment. Getting gear is fun. That's all you need to know.

I have news for you. If you think raiding and pvp are the only carrots in WoW, you are blind. I was a hardcore raider for years, even have a gladiator mount to show for my hard work; but that was a long time ago and these days (these past YEARS to be more precise) have been spent collecting pets, toys, mounts, transmog, working on achievements and just experiencing the game in general. I DO occasionally get into a raid, but I'm not a raider by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm also not sure where you get 'casuals hate grinding' from. Some PLAYERS hate grinding, both hardcore and casual; it's not an exclusive casual characteristic. What's more, I'm not even sure you know what a casual is...

And here's the kicker. Having better gear most certainly helps me solo older content. It also helps me blast LFR which is decidedly, a casual haven. Regardless of those obvious examples of why I 'need' gear, it's still as simple as getting gear is fun.

Re-read what you wrote and ask yourself, "Am I only looking at this game from my perspective and not allowing for others?".

Spoiler: yes you are.

I don't see how getting gear is fun, especially when epics are handed out and legendaries turned into random drops..........downing the content is the fun part.