HeatStreet, GamerGate, Stealth Editing & "Attack" on Anime

[AsariCommando]

Originally posted this on the GamerGate debate subreddit, but I know a lot of GamerGate people are MMO-Cers, so I figure we can debate this in Gen-OT, since it's an interesting topic and not specifically related to gaming. OP purposely worded neutrally.

HeatStreet has once again found itself in GamerGate's crosshairs. The site's founder, Louise Mensch, has stealth edited an article by William Hicks, replacing much of his original work with an article saying the exact opposite of Mr. Hicks's original message. Hicks had originally defended Keijo!!!!!!!!, which had come under fire from Kotaku and the social justice community, over perceived sexism. Louise Mensch's rewrite of the article attacks Keijo!!!!!!!! as "misogynistic" and "child pornography," and even cites Kotaku (with a direct link) as "proof" that the anime is "misogynistic."

The GamerGate community has largely criticized HeatStreet and Louise Mensch over the stealth edit and perceived attack on free expression. A KotakuInAction topic criticizing the article had received over 600 upvotes, HeatStreet was then raised from Tier 1 (some ethical issues, archive when in doubt) on the KiA Blacklist to Tier 3 (all links must be archived), multiple pro-GamerGate Youtube commentators have made videos on the situation and the hashtag has largely condemned HeatStreet. Some have called for perceived "good writers" to leave the site and/or for Louise Mensch to step down. Brad Glasgow, a freelance journalist who has covered GamerGate extensively for GamePolitics and AllThink, has postulated that HeatStreet may be intentionally trying to burn bridges with the GamerGate community with this article.

This isn't the first time HeatStreet has come under fire from the GamerGate community. Less than two weeks ago the site came under fire over alleged clickbait and misinformation. HeatStreet was also criticized after Louise Mensch allegedly "pressured" one of her writers into changing his article on pepe the frog to paint Hillary Clinton in a more positive light. Mensch was also criticized after allegedly lying in an article about torture and doubling down when confronted about it.

Discussion Question
* Do you believe that Louise Mensch's rewrite of the article without disclosure was unethical?

* Do you believe that Louise Mensch's article was engaging in shaming tactics against Keijo!!!!!!!! and/or it's creators/fans?

* Do you agree with Mensch that Keijo!!!!!!!! is "misognyistic" and/or "child pornography"?

* Do you believe that HeatStreet should have been upgraded from 'Tier 1' to 'Tier 3' status on the KotakuInAction blacklist?

* Given that many anti-GamerGaters have criticized GamerGate for supposedly not criticizing HeatStreet, do you believe that their criticism is valid?

* How do you believe sites that have some ethical pro-GamerGate writers, but also have some ethical concerns, should be treated by the GamerGate community?

* Do you believe Brad Glasgow is correct about HeatStreet intentionally throwing their GamerGate audience under the bus?

* Has this incident increased or decreased your trust of HeatStreet and/or Louise Mensch?

[walpole]

I don't watch anime and I'm not really sure what gamergate is but the when I look at that drawing I see three women. The one with white hair has hips and I've personally seen plenty of women with breasts of that size or smaller so I don't know what fantasy world this writer is living in.

edit: spell correction

[AsariCommando]

I don't watch anime and I'm not really sure what gamergate is but the when I look at that drawing I see three women. The one with white hair has hips and I've personally seem plenty of women with breasts of that size or smaller so I don't know what fantasy world this writer is living in.

Just more of the insanity we've seen over the past couple of years. Only instead of Kotaku or Polygon, this time it's the "right-wing media."

[NED funded]

1. Yes it's unethical
2. No
3. Yes on misognyistic and no to child pornography.
4. No, judging from the comments they seem to believe the article was comparing anime in general= CP.
5. Right now, no.
6. IDK and I don't care. The gamergate thing should just die.
8. No.

[unbound]

TBH, if you want to get into the ethics of journalist writing, find a much better mechanism than Gamergate. While some have tried to drag it out of the slimepit, the organization was started based on MRAs going off on women.

People trying to leverage Gamergate as a point to push better journalist standards are analogous to people trying to leverage the KKK as a point to help local communities. Yeah, there is a small element of that in those organizations, but why would you want to have to deal with the massive stench of what the primary reasons for either of those groups actually exist?

[AsariCommando]

3. Yes on misognyistic

How is it misogynistic? If you don't like it, you don't have to watch it, there's plenty of other animes out there.

4. No, judging from the comments they seem to believe the article was comparing anime in general= CP.

Her argument is that showing an anime character with small breasts is "child porn," just because said character has small breasts. There's not even any nudity in Keijo and it's a work of fiction (where most, if not all of the characters are adults). If it's child pornography to show that character, then Louise Mensch is a pedophile for posting pictures in the article.

TBH, if you want to get into the ethics of journalist writing, find a much better mechanism than Gamergate. While some have tried to drag it out of the slimepit, the organization was started based on MRAs going off on women.

People trying to leverage Gamergate as a point to push better journalist standards are analogous to people trying to leverage the KKK as a point to help local communities. Yeah, there is a small element of that in those organizations, but why would you want to have to deal with the massive stench of what the primary reasons for either of those groups actually exist?

There are thousands of women who support GamerGate and most people don't really care about MRA-stuff. Besides, most MRAs aren't really misogynists either, they've also been given the shaft by SJWs who desire nothing but control. And the KKK? Where are you getting this stuff from? That's a pretty insane comparison, it'd be like me comparing Anita Sarkeesian to the Nazis.

[Fasc]

the organization was started based on MRAs going off on women.

Tell a lie often enough... /snicker

GamerGate revisions aside, Mensch has been on the shit-list for a LOT of people recently. The Podesta email leaks put her squarely into the "I will help Hillary!" camp by offering services and advice, and when called on it she doubled down with her McMullin campaign and some rather interesting choice rebuttals. Before then she was very finger-waggy at a lot of online discussions going one way or another, but since the email leaks she's been full blown school marm. She has a huge hatred of Trump and many in the NeverTrump group of conservatives hate the revelations about her because it bleeds over to their own position being not simply against Trump, but being so far gone as to actively prop up Wallace or Hillary just to beat him out.

I couldn't care less about the anime to be honest, her (not so) stealth edit was highly unethical, and more of this will follow as she continues to manipulate HeatStreet for her own personal gains. Sucks too because a few articles from that site have been good in the past... oh well.

[NED funded]

I correct myself, it's ethical. When you said they stealth edited the article I thought they left the original author's name, now I see they changed the author's name so no I don't think its unethical

[AsariCommando]

Tell a lie often enough... /snicker

He could just be misinformed based off the media's lies. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

GamerGate revisions aside, Mensch has been on the shit-list for a LOT of people recently. The Podesta email leaks put her squarely into the "I will help Hillary!" camp by offering services and advice, and when called on it she doubled down with her Wallace campaign and some rather interesting choice rebuttals. Before then she was very finger-waggy at a lot of online discussions going one way or another, but since the email leaks she's been full blown school marm. She has a huge hatred of Trump and many in the NeverTrump group of conservatives hate the revelations about her because it bleeds over to their own position being not simply against Trump, but being so far gone as to actively prop up Wallace or Hillary just to beat him out.

I couldn't care less about the anime to be honest, her (not so) stealth edit was highly unethical, and more of this will follow as she continues to manipulate HeatStreet for her own personal gains. Sucks too because a few articles from that site have been good in the past... oh well.

They did a pretty good job covering the CON leaks, but the site at large is completely cancerous. I don't really have a problem with her shilling for Hillary, since she has been open about her biases and it's just her opinion. But as you said, stealth editing articles is highly unethical, especially since she made the original redirect to an editorial saying the exact opposite of what Hicks wanted. She doesn't seem to respect the free expression of artists (Keijo) or her own staff.

[Dezerte]

Too much drama for me, but that anime is of no concern to me.

[Fasc]

I correct myself, it's ethical. When you said they stealth edited the article I thought they left the original author's name, now I see they changed the author's name so no I don't think its unethical

If that was the point, a full retraction and fresh submission would have been in order. This is still on the sly shitty.

[AsariCommando]

I correct myself, it's ethical. When you said they stealth edited the article I thought they left the original author's name, now I see they changed the author's name so no I don't think its unethical

The URL to the original redirects to Mensch's article.

[NED funded]

If that was the point, a full retraction and fresh submission would have been in order. This is still on the sly shitty.

And??? You know its no longer the original article and that is has been written by another author.

[AsariCommando]

I think that's what they did.

Not at all. Hicks article was deleted and set to redirect to Mensch's opposition piece.

[NED funded]

Not at all. Hicks article was deleted and set to redirect to Mensch's opposition piece.

Yeah I just edited my comment. Anyway I don't see the problem or the ethical implications we should consider on this case.

[GennGreymane]

Do you believe that Louise Mensch's rewrite of the article without disclosure was unethical? I suppose so.

Do you believe that Louise Mensch's article was engaging in shaming tactics against Keijo!!!!!!!! and/or it's creators/fans? Potentially

Do you agree with Mensch that Keijo!!!!!!!! is "misognyistic" and/or "child pornography"? I literally have no idea what it is

Do you believe that HeatStreet should have been upgraded from 'Tier 1' to 'Tier 3' status on the KotakuInAction blacklist? I literally have no idea what this is

Given that many anti-GamerGaters have criticized GamerGate for supposedly not criticizing HeatStreet, do you believe that their criticism is valid? Sure?

How do you believe sites that have some ethical pro-GamerGate writers, but also have some ethical concerns, should be treated by the GamerGate community? I have no idea

Do you believe Brad Glasgow is correct about HeatStreet intentionally throwing their GamerGate audience under the bus? I couldnt tell ya

Has this incident increased or decreased your trust of HeatStreet and/or Louise Mensch? Who are these people?

[nextormento]

But this is different and beyond gross. It is the combination of porn and cartoons that’s disturbing at first, and then it moves on to the child-rendering typical of animé that is fine when a character is non-porn but gross as hell when the cartoon in question is nude women fighting with their sex organs.

They're just placing lines on what's acceptable.
I don't find it gross. Or even erotic. Other people may.
Critique is opinion, and it's fine that they have one. But it's a very poorly reasoned opinion; particularly if they don't address how the entire thing is ridiculously over the top to the point of rendering any connection from this work to reality as dubious. Not like works of fiction need to reflect reality anyway.
The edit is shitty reporting.

As for the GG implications, I don't think it maters much. People of several stripes have tried to attract, use and even politically convert GG folks since like for ever. It's one thing to seek a fair shake in reporting, but I don't think GG should request or expect allegiance to their ideals from anyone other than themselves.
The tier change is expected: if they change the wording of articles in such terms, it's only understandable that they archive every version.

[THE Bigzoman]

* Do you believe that Louise Mensch's rewrite of the article without disclosure was unethical?

I'm still piecing everything here. If they just replaced the old article with a new one, then...no?

* Do you believe that Louise Mensch's article was engaging in shaming tactics against Keijo!!!!!!!! and/or it's creators/fans?

Yes. There's nothing misogynistic about sex filled anime. It harms no one, so people should just fuck off and not tell people how they should live their life. Basic principle right? Apparently not.

* Do you agree with Mensch that Keijo!!!!!!!! is "misognyistic" and/or "child pornography"?

No. See answer to question two.

* Do you believe that HeatStreet should have been upgraded from 'Tier 1' to 'Tier 3' status on the KotakuInAction blacklist?

I didn't know this was still a thing. Don't know, don't care.

* Given that many anti-GamerGaters have criticized GamerGate for supposedly not criticizing HeatStreet, do you believe that their criticism is valid?*

Tu Quoque fallacies has been their forte since all this shit started. I wouldn't dignify it with a response. You're playing a game designed so you can never win, so why bother?

*

How do you believe sites that have some ethical pro-GamerGate writers, but also have some ethical concerns, should be treated by the GamerGate community?

Again, I didn't think this was still a thing. A case by case basis I guess?

* Do you believe Brad Glasgow is correct about HeatStreet intentionally throwing their GamerGate audience under the bus?

Active gamergaters probably aren't a large enough demographic for HeatStreet to care any which way. They're nice to have around because more is better, but they'll live if they're gone.

* Has this incident increased or decreased your trust of HeatStreet and/or Louise Mensch?

Never heard of it till now, honestly.

I'm only active in the FGC nowadays and shit like this is kept to a minimum...for now. But given the article bashing this new anime, I don't think they produce much of value anyway.

[Crissi]

Since this pretty much ties into GamerGate stuff, it should go into the appropriate megathread here:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ted-27-October

closing