Obliterate Still Hitting Like A Wet Noodle?

[LCDArcade]

Anyone else feel like Obliterate still isn't hitting as hard as it should after the buffs? Every single time my top 3 sources of damage comes from HB, FP, and FS with OB always less than 10% of my overall damage. I'm sitting at 853 iLevel.

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It just doesn't make any sense that Core ability of the spec does the least amount of damage....

[kaintk]

it make sense with pulse wave being at 1 rune left now, try it man, its pure joy now to be able to keep one rune for the killing machine proc or another obliterate

[LCDArcade]

it make sense with pulse wave being at 1 rune left now, try it man, its pure joy now to be able to keep one rune for the killing machine proc or another obliterate

I am using Frozen Pulse, my ST damage is ridiculous. I'm just trying to figure why Obliterate sucks.

[Mollox]

I think Obliterate is reaching acceptable numbers, we used to preference using Frostscythe just due to this working better with our scaling, this is no longer the case as we are able to spam our obliterates to our heart's content and it is no longer a "loss" to use a KM proc on Obliterate instead of using it on Frostscythe (Which was a mechanical problem with Frost Strike vs Obliterate which just came back in the form of Frostscythe) now you will no longer feel like an idiot for preemptively using an obliterate just as KM procs, it does a good chunk of damage now, I ran some tests in dungeons and my obliterates were hitting around 400k each, a Frostscythe with KM proc was doing around 350k, this is a good increase and takes away an already annoying spell that should be only chosen for heavy cleave fights, not for single target.

[Deleted]

Tbh I prefer my 650k Howling Blast Crits than frost pulse

With KM and standard stuff like POF Obliterate can easily push 400-450k per use

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Anyone else feel like Obliterate still isn't hitting as hard as it should after the buffs? Every single time my top 3 sources of damage comes from HB, FP, and FS with OB always less than 10% of my overall damage. I'm sitting at 853 iLevel.

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It just doesn't make any sense that Core ability of the spec does the least amount of damage....

It may be core ability but it's also our filler. I don't think other classes have fillers hitting as much :>

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I am using Frozen Pulse, my ST damage is ridiculous. I'm just trying to figure why Obliterate sucks.

with my stats Freezing Fog sims higher than Frozen Pulse on ST

[aroth]

Tbh I prefer my 650k Howling Blast Crits than frost pulse

With KM and standard stuff like POF Obliterate can easily push 400-450k per use

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It may be core ability but it's also our filler. I don't think other classes have fillers hitting as much :>

Not really? Our rotation/priority as frost is centered around converting one resource into another and then using that second resource. As such we dont have "filler" so much as designated dumps for converting Runes to RP and RP to damage, that we only deviate from if certain events happen (KM/Rime).

Fillers are more for classes that use specific abilities in response to specific events (Proc, CDs, etc) and then use a single other ability with minimal resource cost and usually minimal damage in-between. Like enh shamans with Lava Lash and most caster classes. We don't use Obliterate because everything else is on CD, we use Obliterate because it is our primary rune dump AND it generates extra Runic Power.

Another way to look at it is that filler spells are something that a class can almost always cast no matter what and they will almost never not have the resources for (like Lightning Bolt for a shaman). Our goal is to NOT have the runes to cast Obliterate and if we DO have them we get rid of them with Obliterate because the fewer runes we have the more uptime we have on Frozen Pulse.

[Zarrant]

Tbh I prefer my 650k Howling Blast Crits than frost pulse

What makes HB crit so hard? Sometimes my HB does 500k crits and then other times it hits for 100k max? Using same talent setups just noticed while world questing

[aroth]

What makes HB crit so hard? Sometimes my HB does 500k crits and then other times it hits for 100k max? Using same talent setups just noticed while world questing

Rime procs probably. That's the only thing I can think of.

[Zarrant]

Rime procs probably. That's the only thing I can think of.

OH thats exactly what it is! Thanks!

Has it always been like that? lol

[Gr1mdark]

OH thats exactly what it is! Thanks!

Has it always been like that? lol

Ah, those unholy players
Yep, Rime was always a hardhitter, but now it got buffed even more.
It also scales with your ap, so as an orc, with trinket procs and racial Rime hits like a truck.

[Zarrant]

Haha, I've only played unholy since HFC Been a frost main since wrath without even touching unholy. Please tell me it hasn't always been a thing LOL

[hellhamster]

Haha, I've only played unholy since HFC Been a frost main since wrath without even touching unholy. Please tell me it hasn't always been a thing LOL

It has always been a thing.

[Zarrant]

/facepalm

that is all.

[Narzok]

/facepalm

that is all.

to be fair, in it'S original form, Rime did not boost Howling blast dmg, only the freecast part. Don't know when the +dmg came in, but pretty sure about the original form as i played basically only frost dk in wrath and early cata

[Mollox]

It's only been since Legion that the 300% increased damage came into play, Rime did however as the poster said above give you a free HB.

Taken from patch notes:
"Legion Patch 7.0.3 (2016-07-19): Now also causes the next [Howling Blast] to deal 300% additional damage."

[aroth]

to be fair, in it'S original form, Rime did not boost Howling blast dmg, only the freecast part. Don't know when the +dmg came in, but pretty sure about the original form as i played basically only frost dk in wrath and early cata

Looking at changelogs on wowhead, Rime originally only made your next Howling Blast (and Icy Touch) consume no runes. The 300% damage was added in 7.0.1.

Also in 6.2 and earlier, Howling blast did on average 110-120% of your AP as frost damage to the target and half that to all targets within 10 yds (was more of a cone at one point, but the tooltips don't reflect that I guess?). Since this was affected by mastery, it inevitably lead to Howling Blast spam with Obliterate only being used to consume Killing Machine procs as we started to stack more and more mastery later in each tier. In 7.0 they changed Howling Blast to only deal ~39% AP as frost damage to the target and 85% of that to all other enemies in 10 yds of the target (this has since been buffed to 55% as of 7.1) as well as making Rime triple the damage of Howling Blast. This was likely an attempt to make Howling Blast less efficient (even at high mastery) than Obliterate unless you get a Rime proc, which only comes from Obliterate, in order to combat the tendency of Frost DKs to cut Obliterate from their rotation towards the end of the tier.

[Rayaleith]

Thought KM frostscyth was > than OB. Has this changed?

P.S. HB hits main target for that much I guess, right? We still get Pulse for Mythic+?

[aroth]

Thought KM frostscyth was > than OB. Has this changed?

P.S. HB hits main target for that much I guess, right? We still get Pulse for Mythic+?

Obliterate was significantly buffed today, and between that and the buff to Howling Blast it is probably safe to assume that Obliterate will be stronger than Frostscythe for single target (more OB means more Rime which means more 300% dmg HB). I am less certain about which will be better for 2-3 target cleave, but Frostscythe should still be king for 4+ targets.

Personally, until I get confirmation one way or the other, I plan to use OB only (both normal and KM procs) for ST then switch to using KM on Frostscythe (but OB otherwise) for 2-3 targets. And Frostscythe only for 4+

[pixelated senpai]

Obliterate was significantly buffed today, and between that and the buff to Howling Blast it is probably safe to assume that Obliterate will be stronger than Frostscythe for single target (more OB means more Rime which means more 300% dmg HB). I am less certain about which will be better for 2-3 target cleave, but Frostscythe should still be king for 4+ targets.

Personally, until I get confirmation one way or the other, I plan to use OB only (both normal and KM procs) for ST then switch to using KM on Frostscythe (but OB otherwise) for 2-3 targets. And Frostscythe only for 4+

Honestly frostscythe only feels good on mythic+, on almost all my Heroic/Mythic raid encounters yesterday RA with Obliteration pulled higher numbers. Ill be trying scythe out tomorrow on M Ursoc and Emerald dragons.The add on Ursoc dies before he even charges and comes back sometimes, so im not sure how good FsS will be since you wouldn't use it unless the add was still up for cleave, Obliterate just hits to hard now to not use.

[aroth]

Honestly frostscythe only feels good on mythic+, on almost all my Heroic/Mythic raid encounters yesterday RA with Obliteration pulled higher numbers. Ill be trying scythe out tomorrow on M Ursoc and Emerald dragons.The add on Ursoc dies before he even charges and comes back sometimes, so im not sure how good FsS will be since you wouldn't use it unless the add was still up for cleave, Obliterate just hits to hard now to not use.

I strongly doubt Frostscythe will be worth taking for Ursoc at all unless you are shooting for the pure MG build. (I think the buffs to OB and HB make it less than optimal for a pure ST fight like Ursoc. Unless he had adds on Mythic?!) Dragons might see some use from Frostscythe with all the cleave potential between the oozes and the spirits, but im not 100% sure the MG rotation would be more optimal than a standard OB rotation with KM procs being used on Frostscythe for the adds.